Not By Works

[Jackson123]

funny thing you seem to think you cant lose your inheritance so how come you have hope ?

Is that mean you can do what ever you want, killing robbing every day and you go to heaven


act 5

5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

 

[royalscot]

So tell me whast would have happend if God lost and commited sin in an earthly body ?

Tell me what would have happened if God wouldnt have born a saviour of the world.. or better still why did the seed had to be so far down the line from adam befor he could be born into this world..
.................................................


The answer God knew he could defeat satan..

God is not a God of chances..

God knows what he is doing and what he is saying..


So when he says bare fruits perform faithfulness or be cut of he knows exactly what he is saying...

why is that so diffacult to understand

are we having a conversation, is this conversation, only trying to find answers to kill your delusion.

 

[JIMBO43]

and for the record, the temple manuscripts were stolen from the jewish temple on more, that one occasion.

so there is a good chance, there was a copy of the torah , some ware. before 70 ad, given only a rabbi could read, from that script.

strange thing change, can open your eyes, when the truth sets you free.

would that be the copy that supports all your dogmas

 

[JIMBO43]

are we having a conversation, is this conversation, only trying to find answers to kill your delusion.

Thats rich cominf from someone who declares you can not grow in scripture ? ha what a joke and a disgrace.. to the gospel of our lord.. well done you pal hey no big deal youll only lose rewards

 

[royalscot]

So tell me whast would have happend if God lost and commited sin in an earthly body ?

Tell me what would have happened if God wouldnt have born a saviour of the world.. or better still why did the seed had to be so far down the line from adam befor he could be born into this world..


The answer God knew he could defeat satan..

God is not a God of chances..

God knows what he is doing and what he is saying..


So when he says bare fruits perform faithfulness or be cut of he knows exactly what he is saying...

why is that so diffacult to understand

but do you know what your doing.

mind take it up, with the meaning of eat, something that will prolong life.

 

[Ariel82]

This thread goes too fast.

Dcon I am spamming your thread with a prayer (i received via email from church) I wanted to share with you and a few others cuz I thought it might be a blessing to take a break from debating.

Thought/Prayer for Today

Lord, make us instruments of your peace. Where there is hatred, let us sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, union; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; where there is sadness, joy. Grant that we may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.*Amen.

~from the Book of Common Prayer, 1979

 

[royalscot]

Thats rich cominf from someone who declares you can not grow in scripture ? ha what a joke and a disgrace.. to the gospel of our lord.. well done you pal hey no big deal youll only lose rewards

do you know what a one side conversation is. or are we only going to be posting, to help, free you ,from your misunderstandings. and again the usage of what a slanderer is , with the usage with no proof. is called

 

[Meggido]

Do you believe salvation can be lost? If your answer is yes, I have a hard time believing you when you say you are motivated by grace.

Grace is umnerited favor. If you claim it can be lost. then the only conclusion one can have is that it is merited.

This is just as bad as the licentious person. Taking Gods grace and using it for his own purpose. which is a get out of jail free card, Just in case this god thing is true, but don't tell me how to live my life, I live the way I think I ought to live it. And my drunkenness, My fornication, My lying and cheating, Well i need to take care of myself so. I will do what I must.

It is amazing, but when we get down to the root of it, Both legalism and licentious are based on pride. One says he is not evil and can live any way he wants, and how dare anyone tell me otherwise.

The other says I do not do these particular sins, and I do these works of God. so I must be ok with God, and how dare anyone tell me otherwise.



lol.. As usual, you attack what you do not understand, It is like meggido and Sully were saying earlier, it is attack on OSAS vs works..and not what people actually believe,

Show me one person (well there may be a few in here as Ariel said,) but show me regulars in here who teach this nonsense?

Your attempt to fight what you call laziness with legalism is taking one extreme, which leads to hell, and replace it with the opposite extreme, which leads to hell.

Your quick to point out Jude and James, which were attempting to fight a licentious gospel. and ignore Paul. who spent his lifetime fighting the legalism you are trying to preach..

you have a very lazy one-dimensional view of grace.....

I believe the Bible tells us that a person can and have and will divorce themselves from covenant relationship, grace and salvation from Father and Jesus....

The constant is always Father and Jesus....but they have zero obligation to run after you if you want a divorce...you seem to state the opposite...That Father and Jesus attach a ball and chain to us....this is the greatest lie of eternal security...that your free choice is removed once you accept the free gift...or rose the lie that says...yeah that guy he was never "REALLY" saved...this is bad scholarship of 1 John....

I do not believe anyone can lose salvation, but I do know the Bible teaches me that people have, will and continue to divorce Father and Son....this does not change Father or Son or their free gift...they are looking down at the divorce decree and with heavy heart and wet eyes...wait....


Works do not maintain or keep salvation, nor does Father and SOn kidnap you once you believe....the one thing that is a fact of the new covenant is that it is based as all 7 other Bible covenants....on free choice....and that is something you guys like to take away and why you are called Calvinists and other things....

Your excuse: that a person was not really saved has left a mountain of busted, disgusted, battered, tattered, bloodied, muddied, torn, forlorn corpses across the body of Christ.....that think they are hopelessly lost.....

This excuse is talked about in Prov 30.20 and fits the excuse perfectly as you all judge people....

This is the way of an adulterous woman:
She eats and wipes her mouth,
And says, “I have done no wrong.”

 

[JIMBO43]

but do you know what your doing.

mind take it up, with the meaning of eat, something that will prolong life.

ive only repeated what is written in the bible,,

you need to take the log out of your own eye.. And whilst your at change your name coz theres nothing royal about declaring You can not grow in scripture .. still waiting for you to repent of this..

this could be your chance for some royal redeeming quality...

anyway im of out got christian duties to do goodbye hope you fall out of your delusion too

 

[royalscot]

would that be the copy that supports all your dogmas

no need to support ,my word, thats why i quoted scripture.

 

[royalscot]

ive only repeated what is written in the bible,,

you need to take the log out of your own eye.. And whilst your at change your name coz theres nothing royal about declaring You can not grow in scripture .. still waiting for you to repent of this..

this could be your chance for some royal redeeming quality...

anyway im of out got christian duties to do goodbye hope you fall out of your delusion too

no need to support ,my word, thats why i quoted scripture.

 

[Ariel82]

you have a very lazy one-dimensional view of grace.....

I believe the Bible tells us that a person can and have and will divorce themselves from covenant relationship, grace and salvation from Father and Jesus....

The constant is always Father and Jesus....but they have zero obligation to run after you if you want a divorce...you seem to state the opposite...That Father and Jesus attach a ball and chain to us....this is the greatest lie of eternal security...that your free choice is removed once you accept the free gift...or rose the lie that says...yeah that guy he was never "REALLY" saved...this is bad scholarship of 1 John....

I do not believe anyone can lose salvation, but I do know the Bible teaches me that people have, will and continue to divorce Father and Son....this does not change Father or Son or their free gift...they are looking down at the divorce decree and with heavy heart and wet eyes...wait....


Works do not maintain or keep salvation, nor does Father and SOn kidnap you once you believe....the one thing that is a fact of the new covenant is that it is based as all 7 other Bible covenants....on free choice....and that is something you guys like to take away and why you are called Calvinists and other things....

Your excuse: that a person was not really saved has left a mountain of busted, disgusted, battered, tattered, bloodied, muddied, torn, forlorn corpses across the body of Christ.....that think they are hopelessly lost.....

This excuse is talked about in Prov 30.20 and fits the excuse perfectly as you all judge people....

This is the way of an adulterous woman:
She eats and wipes her mouth,
And says, “I have done no wrong.”

I wouldn't say "those people were not really saved". I would say some might be but if they claim the name of Christ, then I take them at their word. Therefore would conclude they are immature Christians being tossed to and fro by false doctrines.


What many need is not condemnation and being told they are going to hell. What they need is Hods truth and light and love enabling them to walk towards heaven and being the people God calls us to become.

Sometimes I wonder why people focus so much on the dark and not on the light.
.what I have read of the thread today makes me ask....

Are we speaking in a manner that glorifies God?

How many people pray before posting?

I am sure some do but just a friendly reminder for those who might get caught up in the debate and forget our true purpose is not to win an argument but to glorify God and walk in His light.

So yeah seeing a lot of smoke..do we have burnt pies and cakes today?

Or is it just the fruit filling overflowing the tin pan?

 

[royalscot]

so he can read, for him self, the hows and whys...................................................................

 

[Meggido]

Except for the fact that it it is the same old pack of lies often projected onto people who actually recognize the fact that they need God's grace on a continuing, ongoing basis, to help them grow in the image and likeness of Christ, and His love for us. The grace of God is not license to sin for the person who places their faith and trust in Christ. It would be nice if the "worker's" crowd stopped misrepresenting this. Yet it seems an impossible request for them to honour. They show their willingness to sin in this way and refuse to repent of it. The hypocrisy of their claims is blatant for those with eyes to see...

We are preaching correctly because now you all are saying we are giving you licenses to sin....

Those that state grace is a license to sin usually have only a very small understanding of the totality of grace....and can only understand saving grace and apply it one-dimensionally to their salvation and have no revelation of the manifold grace of God...

 

[Ariel82]

We are preaching correctly because now you all are saying we are giving you licenses to sin....

Those that state grace is a license to sin usually have only a very small understanding of the totality of grace....and can only understand saving grace and apply it one-dimensionally to their salvation and have no revelation of the manifold grace of God...

You misunderstood her posts. She says she is sick and tired of being accused of teaching that grace is a license to sin.....not accusing you are teaching it.

So you identify with the "workers for" salvation label?

Strange since doctrinally we have very similar beliefs but I never took it as Magenta or others placing that label upon me.

 

[royalscot]

who appointed you saviour, to say, who god, can save and not save.

seems there s a problem, understanding that meaning, this meaning, who saved who.

 

[Meggido]

How was David saved?

The rich young ruler was not saved because he loved his money more than he did God. God did not ask him to earn his salvation, No one ever did that, He wanted to prove to the man where his heart is,,

We cna not do that, Because we can not know a persons heart. God can, and God did. and God does.

Oh we cannot know a persons heart today!?!?

but all day, yesterday, you claim you can tell when someone was not really saved in the church

The fact your own hypocrisy eludes you is cause for much Godly concern....this is the early warning signs of a deluded, double minded man...being tossed to and fro not sure what to believe in.....

 

[Magenta]

A lot of Christians seem to be oblivious to the fact that grace is not for nuthin'. It is given on the basis of trust in Christ. But it seems that so many Christians think just because grace is not given on the basis of work that it is given on the basis of nothing at all, and therefore, the reasoning goes, you can't lose it. But they don't realize grace is conditioned on trust in Christ:

4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5 NIV)

Trust in Christ is the condition for justification. Stop trusting in Christ and you lose that justification. That's not a works gospel. As we can see in the above passage, trust is CONTRASTED with works for obtaining justification. But the twisted OSAS message says if you have to trust/believe to stay saved then you are guilty of trusting in your own works to be saved. That's not what Paul says.

So it's clear--trusting in Christ as the condition for not losing salvation hardly amounts to one working for his salvation. Quite the opposite in fact. Paul said so. Trust is not a work that does not justify that it somehow makes you guilty of relating to God through a works gospel.

You seem to be talking about pew warmers and not true Christians. Perhaps some of those are really new and not yet discipled, or they have not undergone a conversion to saving faith... we don't have any way of knowing who may respond to the call on their life at a future date, and what they are learning in the wilderness that is going to be used to help others in their faith walk.

 

[royalscot]

We are preaching correctly because now you all are saying we are giving you licenses to sin....

Those that state grace is a license to sin usually have only a very small understanding of the totality of grace....and can only understand saving grace and apply it one-dimensionally to their salvation and have no revelation of the manifold grace of God...

you do have a licence to sin, thats why the jewish converts to a christian belief syetem were complaining ,about acts 15,

among the christian converts belief ,system .

and with no temple of stone, to take an animal to the temple, for forgiveness, you would not call that a licence to sin.(70 ad)

 

[Meggido]

People who are saved should start baring some sort of fruit immediately.

How much fruit they bare depending on how much a person grows and learns to trust God in different ares of their life. The more they abide in the vine (grow in faith of just trusting jesus) , the more fruit they will bare.

another contradiction ...., several weeks ago and all through this thread, you stated fruit was not any proof of salvation and it does not matter if they bear fruit or not, because a dead apple tree is still an apple tree whether they bear fruit or not...you G7 and DCOn alll say this.....you even called people who advocated that fruit bearing must be immediate in a baby christian as fruit-inspectors...and condemning people.....

but today...

you change your story again and tell us fruit bearing must be immediate....
You are making us sea sick with your double minded ways....

When you get it truly figured out, let us know....