Not By Works

[FranC]

Whilst I agree with you because Jesus himself said it.
His commandments were summed up in two new ones.

I will also say and I will keep on saying it we need to be very careful in judging obedience.

I actually love your sentence

"trust in, rely upon, cling to and adhere to"

We all struggle with stuff, don't walk the walk as we want to. Stumble and so on.
What worries me is that I see people condemning others who do so and that is not right.

CLING TO

Genesis 32:24-28
24 Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. 25 Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob's hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. 26 And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.”
But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!”

If we cling on then surely God will bless us.

Bill,

I beg you to notice who is condemning who.

I have not seen anyone from the side that believes Jesus' commandments are to be kept condemning anyone.

OTOH, I've seen quite a few perons here condemning those who WANT TO ADHERE TO THE WORDS OF JESUS.

Now, to me this is calling the White kettle black.

Those who desire to do good deeds and state here that this is what Jesus taught, have been constantly called names and been made fun of.

There is condemning going on here, but NOT by those who wish to BELIEVE and FOLLOW and HOLD ON TO and EMULATE Jesus.
Why?

Simply because Jesus would not be too happy about it and we try to imitate Him (as best we can).

It seems like those on the "Nothing needs to be done but 'believe' " are the ones doing all the condemning.

I'm sorry that I'm making such a point of this, but I do believe it's very important so that blame is not incorrectly atrributed.

 

[FranC]

believe = trust in, rely upon, cling to, adhere to

If one believes in that sense, it is biblical faith. Yes, one can have mental assent and not have biblical faith. A biblical faith FOLLOWS Christ, obeys His commandments. John 14:15 - "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Anyone who professes to believe but doesn't obey, is a liar or deceived.

Wow.

Somebody new who actually knows what BELIEVE means!!!

Apparently, he's not AFRAID of what it means because he TRULY has faith in his Lord and Savior.

 

[sevenseas]

When they slander us, make false statement about us, and continue to say things which are not true about us, even though it has been shown by us and others.

it is an attack.

I was told I condemned someone to hell yesterday, That was a lie
I was told I change my view on things, That is a lie, proven by another poster, that I have always maintained the same thing
I was told I did not believe things I do yesterday.

All those are slander, You attack people by slandering them.

amazingly, Dcon and myself are the ones who keep getting told we attack others. and that is why they went on this war against us.

If you do not want to confront a brother who is sin sin, that is on you, But please do not tell me I am not being slandered and attacked when I am.

seems we have new member of the G7 false claim club

congratulations!

you can expect your fake halo in two weeks

 

[dcontroversal]

So no shedding of blood for the forgiveness of Sin is required in your Gospel....got it thanks.....

I never said that and this proves you are deceptive...I said the OT saints looked forward to the cross and their salvation was ratified when Jesus said it is finished...your deception almost makes me want to elevate you to a term I have not used in a while involving cake and taker.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Believe and faith is the same.

If I BELIEVE that you will drive me to my job...

I have FAITH that you will drive me to my job...

If I BELIEVE in Jesus...
I have FAITH in Jesus...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Webster Dictionary(4.00 / 1 vote)Rate this definition:

Faith(noun)


belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his authority and veracity; reliance on testimony

Faith(noun)
the assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth

Faith(noun)
the belief in the historic truthfulness of the Scripture narrative, and the supernatural origin of its teachings, sometimes called historical and speculative faith

Faith(noun)
the belief in the facts and truth of the Scriptures, with a practical love of them; especially, that confiding and affectionate belief in the person and work of Christ, which affects the character and life, and makes a man a true Christian, -- called a practical, evangelical, or saving faith

Faith(noun)
that which is believed on any subject, whether in science, politics, or religion; especially (Theol.), a system of religious belief of any kind; as, the Jewish or Mohammedan faith; and especially, the system of truth taught by Christ; as, the Christian faith; also, the creed or belief of a Christian society or church

Faith(noun)
fidelity to one's promises, or allegiance to duty, or to a person honored and beloved; loyalty

Faith(noun)
word or honor pledged; promise given; fidelity; as, he violated his faith

Faith(noun)
credibility or truth

Faith
by my faith; in truth; verily

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Webster Dictionary(0.00 / 0 votes)Rate this definition:

Believe(noun)

to exercise belief in; to credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of, upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by circumstances other than personal knowledge; to regard or accept as true; to place confidence in; to think; to consider; as, to believe a person, a statement, or a doctrine

Believe(verb)
to have a firm persuasion, esp. of the truths of religion; to have a persuasion approaching to certainty; to exercise belief or faith

Believe(verb)
to think; to suppose



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Webster Dictionary(0.00 / 0 votes)Rate this definition:

Belief(noun)

assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without immediate personal knowledge; reliance upon word or testimony; partial or full assurance without positive knowledge or absolute certainty; persuasion; conviction; confidence; as, belief of a witness; the belief of our senses

Belief(noun)
a persuasion of the truths of religion; faith

Belief(noun)
the thing believed; the object of belief

Belief(noun)
a tenet, or the body of tenets, held by the advocates of any class of views; doctrine; creed

Don't forget the works.......you also have faith in your works........!

 

[stonesoffire]

Stone,
I understood your explanation before.
My comment was how could it be possible to BELIEVE and not have FAITH.

So according to what you say above, there's a lag time between BELIEVING IN JESUS
and HAVING FAITH IN JESUS.

Since JESUS IS GOD, I wonder how long the lag time would be...

a day?
a week?
a month?
a year?

WHEN do I begin to have FAITH in the GOD I BELIEVE IN???

Who said there was a lag time? Only you suggesting it.

By the way...we all have said that believe is to obey. The difference in our thinking is that obedience is to believe. Disobedience is unbelief. It's also said in scripture.

 

[sevenseas]

So if I BELIEVE IN GOD

I don't have FAITH IN GOD??

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I didn't say "I believe there IS a God"

I said "I BELIEVE IN GOD".


please explain the difference....

man I REALLY tried Fran! I REALLY tried.

then I gave up and asked my dog but her tail was in her mouth and she didn't know what to do with it

please don't be upset

please don't whack us with more common sense

I'm so tired of the attacks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

seems we have new member of the G7 false claim club

congratulations!

you can expect your fake halo in two weeks

Prove my false claims

i proved my claims yesterday thank you, and I shared them with those who need to see, and will continue to until they are stopped,

it is is one thing to disagree, I disagree with many people, but to lie about what others say, that's not right no matter who you are,

 

[sevenseas]

Acts 5.4-5, 8-9

[SUP]4 [/SUP]While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.

The Bible clearly said they died because they lied to the Holy Spirit...

nheh

are you sure?

I mean just because it clearly says that, is that what it means?

if the Bible clearly meant what it actually says, this thread would have been about 1 or 2 pages long

so that can't be right

believe it! where's your faith?

 

[dcontroversal]

Not one of us has ever said we work for any form of grace.....we don't....

Stop confusing grace and mercy, youa re suggesting they are one of the same and they are not...

When God spared the children in the wilderness and let them die in the wilderness over 40 years he showed his mercy....when he did not kill them outright as he wanted to he showed his grace...

Are you suggesting there is no punishment or judgement for sin under grace?

Sin always has a judgement....we sow what we reap...

DCON loves to say David was forgiven and was saved and had faith and and the Lord showed mercy on him, so the sin was taken care off....He seems to imply by saying those things that David escaped the punishment for his SINs of adultery and murder...but he did not escape judgement or punishment and still paid the price for committing the SINs of adultery and murder....The death of the infant son was the immediate punishment for the sins of the Father....

Ananias & Sapphira died for the sin of lying....

More lies.....I have stated numerous tines that David paid the price in this life for the sins he committed and even mentikned the child, physical ailments as evidenced by the Psalms etc....so is this your brand of works...lies, deception and saying people say things they never said....?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bill,

I beg you to notice who is condemning who.

I have not seen anyone from the side that believes Jesus' commandments are to be kept condemning anyone.

OTOH, I've seen quite a few perons here condemning those who WANT TO ADHERE TO THE WORDS OF JESUS.

Now, to me this is calling the White kettle black.

Those who desire to do good deeds and state here that this is what Jesus taught, have been constantly called names and been made fun of.

There is condemning going on here, but NOT by those who wish to BELIEVE and FOLLOW and HOLD ON TO and EMULATE Jesus.
Why?

Simply because Jesus would not be too happy about it and we try to imitate Him (as best we can).

It seems like those on the "Nothing needs to be done but 'believe' " are the ones doing all the condemning.

I'm sorry that I'm making such a point of this, but I do believe it's very important so that blame is not incorrectly atrributed.

lol

we love sin

we think on can be saved and not do any work

we think work is a bad word and those who teach it are evil

we believe in free easy false grace

But your not condemning anyone..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

More lies.....I have stated numerous tines that David paid the price in this life for the sins he committed and even mentikned the child, physical ailments as evidenced by the Psalms etc....so is this your brand of works...lies, deception and saying people say things they never said....?

but they have people saying they are not lying, I was even just shown I was part of the GG7 false whateveclub,

,, don't expect these things to stop when people who claim to love God will not even confront them and tell them they are in sin, they are empowered instead.

Time to just start tart copying and pasting in a file, share what the slander is when they do it, and if it des. It stop, take it to those in charge,

 

[stonesoffire]

Mat 13:58
　 He did not perform many miracles there because of their unbelief.

unbelief:

~
G570
ἀπιστία
apistia
ap-is-tee'-ah
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.


Total KJV occurrences: 12

Joh 6:28　 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"　
Joh 6:29　 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."　
Joh 6:30　 So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?　
Joh 6:31　 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'"　
Joh 6:32　 Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.　
Joh 6:33　 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."　
Joh 6:34　 They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always."　
Joh 6:35　 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.　
Joh 6:36　 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.　
Joh 6:37　 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.　
Joh 6:38　 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.　
Joh 6:39　 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.　
Joh 6:40　 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."　
Joh 6:41　 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."　

It's a new day Fran...and a new way. Not of law under the OT.







　

 

[sevenseas]

Prove my false claims

i proved my claims yesterday thank you, and I shared them with those who need to see, and will continue to until they are stopped,

it is is one thing to disagree, I disagree with many people, but to lie about what others say, that's not right no matter who you are,

oh just don't even bother

just remember, don't respond to those with slanderous lies, who have malice in their hearts (or is that heads?...anyway..)
mark those who cause divisions with a fruit flavored marker and bookmark escape to slippery land of unreality for more advice

I'm glad you have proved your claims. what I want to know, is that gold in them thar hills or is it just fool's gold?

all that glitters may be gold dust in the air so be careful, cause that is space junk that disappears the moment someone wants to document it

thing is, people are disagreeing on who is lying

I'm glad you have such a strong persuasion as to what is right and wrong

hang on to it. you may very well need it one day.

 

[JIMBO43]

but they have people saying they are not lying, I was even just shown I was part of the GG7 false whateveclub,

,, don't expect these things to stop when people who claim to love God will not even confront them and tell them they are in sin, they are empowered instead.

Time to just start tart copying and pasting in a file, share what the slander is when they do it, and if it des. It stop, take it to those in charge,

yup tell me how on earth does someone witness God for 40 years in the desert and not have any faith ? that he is God and they should obey for that reason ? could you answer this question

 

[stonesoffire]

Simply because Jesus would not be too happy about it and we try to imitate Him (as best we can).

No need to imitate or act like Him Fran. He gives us grace to be formed into His image. The work of Holy Spirit.

Now sevenseas...surely you understand this.

 

[BillG]

Stone,
I understood your explanation before.
My comment was how could it be possible to BELIEVE and not have FAITH.

So according to what you say above, there's a lag time between BELIEVING IN JESUS
and HAVING FAITH IN JESUS.

Since JESUS IS GOD, I wonder how long the lag time would be...

a day?
a week?
a month?
a year?

WHEN do I begin to have FAITH in the GOD I BELIEVE IN???

its interesting you say that

I walked with a guy last year for about 8 months.

He went to the alpha Course and as a result went on the next course which I lead.

Now he believed in God and he believed in Jesus.
He believed in Jesus as a good person and they he died and it stopped at that.
He believed he gave a moral code as such. And if we try our best then surely God would accept that.

We walked and talked and then it came to a crunch point.

He asked to me meet because he felt so disconnected from God.

We met and boy what a meeting.

I said his disconect was the way to God and the way is Jesus.
Jesus is the connection. You cannot come to the Father unless it's through Jesus.
He saves you, forgives your sin and gives you a purpose.

We went from Jesus was a good moral teacher to a guy who ended up on his knees with tears running down his face and snot pouring out his nose and I asked him do you want to connect to God, if so you need to place your faith in Jesus and believe he died and rose again for you.

He said yes I want to. So I said just let it all out in your prayer.

he prayed

"Jesus I need you so much and the funny thing is he let it all go. Boy did he swear about himself and all the hurt pain and shame came out.

He placed his faith in Jesus.

When he got off his knees I saw a totally different person, a smile on his face.
He was trembling and tingling.

"I am a child of God"

The old man was gone and the new child of God I saw.

Believe to faith took 8 months.

I had the pleasure of baptising him 3 months ago.

 

[dcontroversal]

if I call a zebra a giraffe, will that make the zebra a giraffe?

you and dcon telling someone they are attacking does not make it so

this is rhetoric designed to shut the other person down or even better, get them angry so they forget what it is you could not answer

now I don't mean you cannot answer per se, just speaking generally

however, I have been accused of attacking folks in the BDF simply by posting a scripture! really!

half this thread is attack..REAL...attacks on the faith delivered once and for all and that would be because some people want to cut out verses they feel are no longer applicable or they mistakenly believe that that which is perfect has come...actually that would be dcon, but whatever....and then we have another poster who is so far over the edge of reality that posts actual heresy and then when you call him on it, he changes what he said and tells you that you misunderstood (not you at all here but still remains so)

and on and on and on

I'm not clarkina kent nor am I supergirl, but I do have real good comprehension and reading skillz

Megiddo is not attacking you

you can say 101 more times that he is, but it will not make it true

and Fran is not a heretic. you know, a while back she got on my case because she thought I was a member of the charismatic frenzy club, so I ignored her. however, she is intelligent, articulate and funny...we actually share that...and I am not a member of the koo koo kharasmatics who are dealing in demonic deception

so you know, relax a little. some of us here are misunderstood but accusations won't release the little white doves and the ravens are eating the corpses

You must not be able to read....so....if I say that you say the devil saves and the angels gave popcorn and cotton candy to the children of Israel what did I just do...I either flat lied, misrepresented, twisted or embellished what you obviously did not say..........I am sitting in an airport right now...and the first two posts I read from junior flat lied, misrepresented and or stated something I did not say nor imply.....I suggest you read EVERY THREAD then interject your opinion after you have all the facts......!!!!! SERIOUS

 

[sevenseas]

but they have people saying they are not lying, I was even just shown I was part of the GG7 false whateveclub,

,, don't expect these things to stop when people who claim to love God will not even confront them and tell them they are in sin, they are empowered instead.

Time to just start tart copying and pasting in a file, share what the slander is when they do it, and if it des. It stop, take it to those in charge,

you know you sound about 7 years old here

I sure hope dcon does not let you down young man

yes

do take it to those in charge

like they don't know

personally, I think they allow some of the more bizarre threads here, like don't pray the lord's prayer, or Jesus words are not binding

I think they allow it, so sensible people who are actually saved can come along and refute the lies. I mean the lies are out there, right?

so people stumble on them, right?

so at least they can sometimes read both sides and God willing, be led into truth instead of insane and devilish lies

please note you may want to actually start copying and not try to make a tart or even a pie out of it

 

[stonesoffire]

its interesting you say that

I walked with a guy last year for about 8 months.

He went to the alpha Course and as a result went on the next course which I lead.

Now he believed in God and he believed in Jesus.
He believed in Jesus as a good person and they he died and it stopped at that.
He believed he gave a moral code as such. And if we try our best then surely God would accept that.

We walked and talked and then it came to a crunch point.

He asked to me meet because he felt so disconnected from God.

We met and boy what a meeting.

I said his disconect was the way to God and the way is Jesus.
Jesus is the connection. You cannot come to the Father unless it's through Jesus.
He saves you, forgives your sin and gives you a purpose.

We went from Jesus was a good moral teacher to a guy who ended up on his knees with tears running down his face and snot pouring out his nose and I asked him do you want to connect to God, if so you need to place your faith in Jesus and believe he died and rose again for you.

He said yes I want to. So I said just let it all out in your prayer.

he prayed

"Jesus I need you so much and the funny thing is he let it all go. Boy did he swear about himself and all the hurt pain and shame came out.

He placed his faith in Jesus.

When he got off his knees I saw a totally different person, a smile on his face.
He was trembling and tingling.

"I am a child of God"

The old man was gone and the new child of God I saw.

Believe to faith took 8 months.

I had the pleasure of baptising him 3 months ago.

~You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BillG again.

In the words of Meggido at one point in time....you said it so much better than me. BillG.