Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

That may be the case, but make no mistake there is but ONE correct message concerning salvation (the gospel) not two....one of the groups above is in error.......

Maybe so. We all do have error of course. If we didn't, we would have perfect knowledge.

 

[BillG]

Ok I got it wrong.

night night all.
off to bed with a heavy heart.

sorry

 

[JIMBO43]

who me?

Anything is possible.

i dont know have you ?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

But that's the recoil that happens because no one can discern whether any of the works advocates will commit, as you just did, to that simple proclamation. It triggers a legitimate defense mechanism that true bible interpretation cannot abide with. If you read through this thread, many have asked for this simple clarity and no one will commit. So therefore, that leaves us with a sense of non committal which leads us to the assumption, based on logic, that the "workers" want to supplement salvation with something that is abominable.

Maybe the refusal to "commit" as you wish they would is an aversion to judge anothers salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok I got it wrong.

night night all.
off to bed with a heavy heart.



sorry

what did you get wrong brother? I did not see you say anything wrong

 

[Meggido]

Is this considered an attack?

View attachment 172876

Funny thing about EG, he begged me to put him on ignore, I did, and I just looked and he has responded to 4 or 5 of my posts about him.....he is following me around and continues to respond to empty air.....if it continues do you think I have grounds to alert the mods of a pathological stalker?



Conclusion:
EG is still responsive to my posts about him in the hopes I betray my cool exterior, and lose it on him....so he can go file a report and get me banned.....not Christian like behavior at all, but rather typical for a person with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom and keeps confessing they have 2 old dogs fighting inside of them.....

it also proves he is out to defend himself and his pride and not the Faith, because if it was about defending the faith, his fruit would be mature enough to have disagreed and stopped replying to me at all and regardless if he knew I had him on ignore or not...but did EG do this? Why NO, because unlike myself, he has made this personal, based on his own perceptions of what the exchange was about..... I will keep him and the usual suspects on the long train to iggy land.....I mean really,.....somebody has to be the spiritual adult in the room...

 

[stonesoffire]

Ok I got it wrong.

night night all.
off to bed with a heavy heart.

sorry

No condemnation on anyone who is His Bill. You are in the perfect One. Let it sink down deep. You have a soft heart.

 

[stonesoffire]

i dont know have you ?

Who is et?

 

[mailmandan]

The problem is you are saying that all 'shallow believing' is 'not really believing'. 'No root' obviously can't mean 'no root at all' because the plant would not appear at all. The first kind of soil is the soil where there is no root, no believing, not the second soil.

Shallow believing falls short of consummated believing in Christ which results in salvation. Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.* The question may still remain, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" I have to conclude that if this were possible, then why didn't Christ include such a scenario? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.

The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having no root do not experience real salvation. Temporary, shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

The church can't seem to think in terms of 'weak faith/ strong faith'. It has been taught to only be able to think about faith in an 'either/or' way. But the parable of the sower shows us that there is indeed weak believing, and there is strong believing. Obviously, strong believing can endure. Weak faith may not. It may never grow up to the fourth kind of soil, but if you just look at your own life perhaps you have a testimony of being all four of the soils in a progressive move towards God. I do.

People in the NOSAS camp can't seem to make a distinction between genuine Christians and nominal Christians. I already showed you in John 2:23-25, where there belief (after seeing the signs that He did) was superficial in nature and Jesus would not commit Himself to those many people. Also, in John 8:31 where these Jews were said to have believed in Him, yet Jesus calls them out as slaves to sin, children of the devil etc..

 

[stonesoffire]

Funny thing about EG, he begged me to put him on ignore, I did, and I just looked and he has responded to 4 or 5 of my posts about him.....he is following me around and continues to respond to empty air.....if it continues do you think I have grounds to alert the mods of a pathological stalker?



Conclusion:
EG is still responsive to my posts about him in the hopes I betray my cool exterior, and lose it on him....so he can go file a report and get me banned.....not Christian like behavior at all, but rather typical for a person with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom and keeps confessing they have 2 old dogs fighting inside of them.....

it also proves he is out to defend himself and his pride and not the Faith, because if it was about defending the faith, his fruit would be mature enough to have disagreed and stopped replying to me at all and regardless if he knew I had him on ignore or not...but did EG do this? Why NO, because unlike myself, he has made this personal, based on his own perceptions of what the exchange was about..... I will keep him and the usual suspects on the long train to iggy land.....I mean really,.....somebody has to be the spiritual adult in the room...

Not much of a teacher are you Meggido. Seems to me it's a prophet that tears down but then builds up again. So?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Funny thing about EG, he begged me to put him on ignore, I did, and I just looked and he has responded to 4 or 5 of my posts about him.....he is following me around and continues to respond to empty air.....if it continues do you think I have grounds to alert the mods of a pathological stalker?

So EG should just be quiet and let you take pot shots at him and others, ? even though you are not talking directly to him?

Conclusion:
EG is still responsive to my posts about him in the hopes I betray my cool exterior, and lose it on him....so he can go file a report and get me banned.....not Christian like behavior at all, but rather typical for a person with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom and keeps confessing they have 2 old dogs fighting inside of them.....

it also proves he is out to defend himself and his pride and not the Faith, because if it was about defending the faith, his fruit would be mature enough to have disagreed and stopped replying to me at all and regardless if he knew I had him on ignore or not...but did EG do this? Why NO, because unlike myself, he has made this perosnal, based on his own perceptions of what the exchange was about..... I will keep him and the usual suspects on the long train to iggy land.....I mean really, somebody has to be the spiritual adult in the room...

You make a false claim about someone, I will respond.. If you do not like it, the that's just tough.

what the mods do to you is out of my control. I am just putting you on record I am sick of your lies and slander and am not going to put up with it anymore

and by the way, Just so we can be truthful,

let see what I really said to you.

OMG, Do you hate me that much dude?

You are making a complete and utter fool of yourself, all because you have a vendetta against me. How stupid is that? do you not see what you are doing?

Saying fruit is not PROOF of salvation does not mean there should be no fruit at all.

I have said 1000 times a person who is saved, out of the result of that salvation will prpduce fruit.

You want to keep up this nonsense, I will report you, and suggest everyone else does too.. Your war is not going to gain you any brownie points, and if you think it is going to hurt me, You do not know me at all (well I think that has actually already been proven with most of your posts today)

Your making me dizzy with your hate, You have lost the ability to make any sense.

Why do you not just put me on ignore.. it is obvious I have a negative impact on you and have done something to make you mad..

in other words, if you are going to keep lying about me, refusing to try to understand what I believe, continue to say I believe things which I do not. Put me on ignore.

I guess you answered the question, You have no desire to do that.

So once again, in trying to try to discredit me, You have once again made yourself look bad.

 

[Meggido]

nheh

are you sure?

I mean just because it clearly says that, is that what it means?

if the Bible clearly meant what it actually says, this thread would have been about 1 or 2 pages long

so that can't be right

believe it! where's your faith?

She is upset because I do not share the same fondness for Bethel or Bill, Brian or Jenn Johnson and called them out to her....I think my gentleness was witnessed by all when she publicly shamed me over that PM and said If I wanted to dis fellowship because she thinks I was wrong in my assessment about those false prophets I could...that's fine its her opinion, but I replied...no, no dis fellowship from me stones, so now she is just putting a pebble in my sandal...

 

[BillG]

what did you get wrong brother? I did not see you say anything wrong

I read BLG repsonse to me and then read your response to BLG based on my original post.

My original post did not come across properly as I did not express it correctly.
That may have upset some people.

That is why I have a heavy heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I read BLG repsonse to me and then read your response to BLG based on my original post.

My original post did not come across properly as I did not express it correctly.
That may have upset some people.

That is why I have a heavy heart.

If we misunderstood you, Forgive us.. That's on us not you bro..

But I understand, it is the type of person you are. Like paul, afraid you would say anything to hurt someone.. I wish I had more of that heart.. I seem to have lost it..

 

[FranC]

Thank you,

and yes, and anyone who does not obey proves they never had faith to begin with, Their faith was dead, can that faith save them? No.

if you trust someone, You will do what they lead you to do. You will not ignore everything they say, That just proves even if you say you trust them, you do not believe or trust them at all. (decieved)

OKAY.

Sooooooo

Why do you not accept that if we believe in Jesus as our Savior and Lord,
it is not necessary to follow His commands?

What is scary?
The word "works"?
The word "necessary"?
The word "Lord"?

Why be afraid of any word or idea or concept IF you believe in Jesus, our Lord and are willing to do as He commanded us to do?

WHY is this so scary???

To the point of some here saying that, in fact, "NO, WORKS DO NOT KEEP US SAVED."

Yes, they do. IF God demands that we obey and we DO NOT obey, what will a just God do?
Put us on the same bus as all those who DID obey?
Is that Just?

But He's a loving God, you may say...
Well then, by jove, He should just send EVERYBODY to heaven !!

You see how there is little common sense in denying that God absolutely demands that we obey IF we have faith in Him.

 

[JIMBO43]

Funny thing about EG, he begged me to put him on ignore, I did, and I just looked and he has responded to 4 or 5 of my posts about him.....he is following me around and continues to respond to empty air.....if it continues do you think I have grounds to alert the mods of a pathological stalker?



Conclusion:
EG is still responsive to my posts about him in the hopes I betray my cool exterior, and lose it on him....so he can go file a report and get me banned.....not Christian like behavior at all, but rather typical for a person with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom and keeps confessing they have 2 old dogs fighting inside of them.....

it also proves he is out to defend himself and his pride and not the Faith, because if it was about defending the faith, his fruit would be mature enough to have disagreed and stopped replying to me at all and regardless if he knew I had him on ignore or not...but did EG do this? Why NO, because unlike myself, he has made this personal, based on his own perceptions of what the exchange was about..... I will keep him and the usual suspects on the long train to iggy land.....I mean really,.....somebody has to be the spiritual adult in the room...

i would give him another chance coz he still needs your last knee cap ive got use to them allnow but as for one member he will be on my iggy for at least 1 more year... then if hes the same he go on for 3 years.. then its a lifetime.. 3 hits and ya out

 

[stonesoffire]

She is upset because I do not share the same fondness for Bethel or Bill, Brian or Jenn Johnson and called them out to her....I think my gentleness was witnessed by all when she publicly shamed me over that PM and said If I wanted to dis fellowship because she thinks I was wrong in my assessment about those false prophets I could...that's fine its her opinion, but I replied...no, no dis fellowship from me stones, so now she is just putting a pebble in my sandal...[/QUOTE

Not at all Meggido. You gossip. That makes me upset. And then slander. What gives anyone the right to do this to another?

What I think happened with your "students" who attended the supernatural courses is they weren't grounded on the foundation first and heard messages way beyond their understanding. It's good that you pick up the pieces but that doesn't make the courses heretical.

There are a lot of things supernatural in the scriptures like Philip being transported. And in the OT...many more than the church has experienced. That should not be.

Be careful what you call heresy. You may end up fighting God Himself.

also, remember it was you that mentioned you wouldn't disfellowship me for what I believe. Then you try to dissuade me. Did you hold that over my head? I wouldn't have your approval? You aren't even in my circle and I have a husband.

Men that draw others to themselves aren't right.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OKAY.

Sooooooo

Why do you not accept that if we believe in Jesus as our Savior and Lord,
it is not necessary to follow His commands?

Because I believe EVERYONE who has faith (believes) in jesus as their lord and savior WILL follow his commands (although I do not believe anyone will be perfect. and some will obey a lot more than others)

What is scary?
The word "works"?
The word "necessary"?
The word "Lord"?

Why be afraid of any word or idea or concept IF you believe in Jesus, our Lord and are willing to do as He commanded us to do?

WHY is this so scary???

To the point of some here saying that, in fact, "NO, WORKS DO NOT KEEP US SAVED."

Yes, they do. IF God demands that we obey and we DO NOT obey, what will a just God do?
Put us on the same bus as all those who DID obey?
Is that Just?

But He's a loving God, you may say...
Well then, by jove, He should just send EVERYBODY to heaven !!

You see how there is little common sense in denying that God absolutely demands that we obey IF we have faith in Him.

WHo is afraid? No one is afraid. The only person that says anyone is afraid is you.

Gods people WILL WORK

Gods people WILL OBEY

Gods people WILL grow

Gods people WILL not live like they used to

Gods people WILL be changed, Because God made them new creatures.

are you afraid of the word will?? Why?

Again, Saying it is REQUIRED is teaching works..

I believe faith works,, why do you not agree? why do you think a person can have faith and not work?

 

[Jackson123]

Shallow believing falls short of consummated believing in Christ which results in salvation. Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.* The question may still remain, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" I have to conclude that if this were possible, then why didn't Christ include such a scenario? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.

The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having no root do not experience real salvation. Temporary, shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

People in the NOSAS camp can't seem to make a distinction between genuine Christians and nominal Christians. I already showed you in John 2:23-25, where there belief (after seeing the signs that He did) was superficial in nature and Jesus would not commit Himself to those many people. Also, in John 8:31 where these Jews were said to have believed in Him, yet Jesus calls them out as slaves to sin, children of the devil etc..

the Rocky soil grow the seed, but because persecution he left. It may mean If No persecution, he stay/ save.
so It is possible for losing faith

good soil produce good tree, this Type of Christian never losing his faith.

God protected and not let any one take away from Him.

I think this promise under condition, If one obey Him.

Back to OT, God promise to bless and protected Israel from the enemy. In reality some time Israel under colonialism,

is that mean God not keep His promise?

No, God always keep His promise, His promise is come with condition.

In NT era Jesus promise to protected us from hell If we abide I the vine.If not He Will Cut the branch and burn in hell

 

[blue_ladybug]

Don't beat yourself up over it. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone. And I'm not offended. So go to bed with a light heart.

Sorry maybe I didn't put it right.
I meant brain damaged to the extent of being comatosed.

Sorry If my post caused any anguish, if so I never meant that and if anyone else has been caused anguish then I am truly sorry.

Truly gutted If I have caused offence to anyone.

Bill