Losing Salvation ?!

[LoveGodForever]

An "unbeliever" is one who has not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation (John 3:18). The Gospel is hid to (unbelievers) those who don't believe the Gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).

Absolutely but Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-4). Jesus is the Word of God and we are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). The post of the "Unbeliever" sent earlier is the Word of God as is post 519

God Bless

 

[valiant]

Heb 6:4-8,

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Key points:

* These people were "Believers" that tasted of the heavenly gift. v4

where does it say they were believers? They had tasted of the heavenly gift, but they had not partaken,

* They were "Believers" and received the Holy Ghost. v4 (God only gives the Holy Spirit to his Believers Acts 5:32)

The verb means literally 'they had gone along with the Holy Spirit'. It does not say they had received Him.

* They were "Believers" and tasted the good Word of God. v5

It specifically withholds the title of believer from them. They had tasted the word. They had not given it heart belief.,

* They had fallen away from God to become "Unbelievers" to follow a life of sin because they needed to repent again v6

Where does it say they had fallen away from God? They had not 'become' unbelievers. They always were. Repentance without faith means they had come short. God had faced them up with their need. They had thought about it but they had finally refused. In cases where men had had such an opportunity they were not given another,. They had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Like the Pharisees were in danger of doing they had finally rejected the Holy Spirits pleading,

* Through their sins they put Jesus to open shame because they knew God's Word and now reject it v5-6

But they had never received it. They were land fit to be burned,

* If they continue in their course of action and do not repent they will be lost and burned v8

Yes because they had come short of believing. They were always land fit to be burned, They did not later become it.

,

The above scriptures are the Word of God. We should believe the Word of God if we do not it makes us an "Unbeliever" and in the same group as those described above if we are knowingly sinning against God.

Yes they were unbelievers. They had never truly believed.

You miss the important point. They had experienced revival and had been 'almost there'. But then they had turned away. It happens often in revival,

 

[Meggido]

The free gift of God is eternal life as it says in the passage Meggido quoted. Free gift. Not works. Unless one thinks Paul is contradicting himself?

Jesus said this was eternal life......

[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

How can OSAS teachers claim eternal life is salvation? Salvation actually means : deliverance, perseverance and safety

Eternal life is the free gift of inheritance and given once you overcome and is a benefit of salvation/deliverance....not salvation itself....

salvation is compromised of many spiritual blessings, which are....the forgiveness of sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the deliverance from the powers of darkness.

Jesus says this in Rev 2.7 & Rev 3.5-6, 20-22

[SUP]7 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

[SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

Notice the conditions in these passages? One must overcome and then Jesus will...this is not one and you are done...this is covenant relationship language...you must and Jesus will based on what you do....Now notice Rev 3.21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

There is a propensity of certain people to place Jesus on a divinity stool, he himself rejected in Philippians 2. Jesus himself had to overcome to finish his race....he said above overcome as I also overcame...when one studies out how Jesus overcome, eternal security will actual lose its appeal and one will come to understand what covenant relationship is all about....and it's core is obedience to Father...

Heb 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Luke 22.39-44

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. [SUP]40 [/SUP]When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.


OSAS assumes and lump together the inheritance of eternal life as an instantly granted spiritual blessing of the New covenant when you are saved according to their doctrine....The Word says eternal is a free gift, but obtained by and through overcoming and enduring to the end....Just as Jesus did....their view of Jesus is more of a figure of future attainment reward, than the example of overcoming now...and the Bible shows us that Jesus was an example for us today not a future reward to be attained later...

OSAS also places faith into faith.....not faith in Jesus to work through you now and just later....

 

[Limey410v2]

matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Nah, rocky ground guy is "mental assent" guy. No root, no salvation.

 

[Meggido]

Hi All,

Some interesting things to consider. An "unbeliever" is one that does not believe God's Word, neither come to the Word. This is the condemnation, that the Word is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Word, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the Word, neither comes to the Word, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the Word, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jesus says why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. We are not following God if we are holding on to the teachings and traditions of man in place of the Word of God. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Psa 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Isa 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Th 2:11-12,
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:3-4,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, isa liar, and the truth is not in him.

God bless you

Good stuff bro....

Some of our very own OSAS folks on this board told us that faith and belief are not the same....How on earth would you get them to understand the difference between unbelieving and the lost....

 

[LoveGodForever]

where does it say they were believers? They had tasted of the heavenly gift, but they had not partaken,The verb means literally 'they had gone along with the Holy Spirit'. It does not say they had received Him. It specifically withholds the title of believer from them. They had tasted the word. They had not given it heart belief., Where does it say they had fallen away from God? They had not 'become' unbelievers. They always were. Repentance without faith means they had come short. God had faced them up with their need. They had thought about it but they had finally refused. In cases where men had had such an opportunity they were not given another,. They had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Like the Pharisees were in danger of doing they had finally rejected the Holy Spirits pleading, But they had never received it. They were land fit to be burned, Yes because they had come short of believing. They were always land fit to be burned, They did not later become it. Yes they were unbelievers. They had never truly believed. You miss the important point. They had experienced revival and had been 'almost there'. But then they had turned away. It happens often in revival,

Friend you need to believe God's Word. An "Unbeliever" cannot receive the Holy Spirit because only the believer receives it (Acts 5:29). The Word of God says that they tasted of the heavenly gift (Jesus) so they must of been believers to do this. They tasted of the good Word of God and the power of the world to come so they must of been "Believers" to taste of God's power and the world to come.... no need to say anything else you believe God's Word or you do not.

God bless

 

[Limey410v2]

Good stuff bro....

Some of our very own OSAS folks on this board told us that faith and belief are not the same....How on earth would you get them to understand the difference between unbelieving and the lost....

If you truly understand salvation, then you will truly understand that a true believer will not lose it.

The question that really should be asked is "what is a true believer?"

 

[valiant]

Jesus said this was eternal life......

[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

How can OSAS teachers claim eternal life is salvation? Salvation actually means : deliverance, perseverance and safety

eternal life is the result of God saving us,

Eternal life is the free gift of inheritance and given once you overcome

eternal life in given to all who have received Christ -- he that has the Son has life (John 5.12)

and is a benefit of salvation/deliverance....not salvation itself....

It is one result of God saving us.

salvation is compromised of many spiritual blessings, which are....the forgiveness of sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the deliverance from the powers of darkness

.

true and much much more.

Jesus says this in Rev 2.7 & Rev 3.5-6, 20-22

[SUP]7 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

Every Christian is an overcomer

[SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

true.

Notice the conditions in these passages? One must overcome and then Jesus will...this is not one and you are done...this is covenant relationship language...you must and Jesus will based on what you do...

They are not conditions, they are declarations. Jesus will enable us to overcome. The covenant is God's covenant - 'I will' - not two sided.,

.Now notice Rev 3.21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

That is what salvation is. Becoming an overcomer,

There is a propensity of certain people to place Jesus on a divinity stool, he himself rejected in Philippians 2.

The Name above every Name? Jesus is declared to be LORD.? He IS Yahweh.

Jesus himself had to overcome to finish his race....he said above overcome as I also overcame.

of course. that is why He had become man,

..when one studies out how Jesus overcome, eternal security will actual lose its appeal and one will come to understand what covenant relationship is all about....and it's core is obedience to Father...

His covenant was ALL on what He was going to do. We just receive what He gives. Its core is His faithfulness,

Heb 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Praise God. He was made a perfect offering for us, because He was the SON,

Luke 22.39-44

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. [SUP]40 [/SUP]When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

the Father's only Son humbled Himself and suffered as the unique man.

OSAS assumes and lump together the inheritance of eternal life as an instantly granted spiritual blessing of the New covenant when you are saved according to their doctrine..

Yes because they believe Jesus and John's teaching.

..The Word says eternal is a free gift, but obtained by and through overcoming and enduring to the end..

Paul sees eternal life as future, because he thinks of its final fulfilment,

..Just as Jesus did...

No Jesus did not. We HAVE eternal life (John3.16)

.their view of Jesus is more of a figure of future attainment reward, than the example of overcoming now...and the Bible shows us that Jesus was an example for us today not a future reward to be attained later...

LOL you are mixed up. We are in Christ NOW. That is how we know He will keep us for ever. Jesus is much more than an example. He is our keeper.

OSAS also places faith into faith.....not faith in Jesus to work through you now and just later....

you've met some funny types. our faith is in Jesus Who said He would LOSE NOTHING {Jon 6.39)

 

[Jackson123]

Nah, rocky ground guy is "mental assent" guy. No root, no salvation.

the Bible say John 3

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

rocky ground guy believeth with Joy, so this guy was save

 

[Limey410v2]

the Bible say John 3

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

rocky ground guy believeth with Joy, so this guy was save

He received, he didn't believed.

 

[valiant]

Friend you need to believe God's Word.

I do, but DO YOU (eg John 6.39)

An "Unbeliever" cannot receive the Holy Spirit because only the believer receives it (Acts 5:29).

but an unbeliever can know His working.

The Word of God says that they tasted of the heavenly gift (Jesus) so they must of been believers to do this.

In revival many taste the heavenly gift, but they do not receive it.

They tasted of the good Word of God and the power of the world to come so they must of been "Believers" to taste of God's power and the world to come....

a man under conviction also tastes the good word of God and the power of the age to come. But that is the point, He then turns away like the Jews to whom the writer was speaking.

no need to say anything else you believe God's Word or you do not.

you mean we have to accept your interpretation and reject Jesus words? John 6.39; 10.27-28

]

 

[valiant]

the Bible say John 3

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

rocky ground guy believeth with Joy, so this guy was save

John 2.23-25? there are different types of belief not all are saved. Only those who believe from the heart,

 

[Meggido]

If you truly understand salvation, then you will truly understand that a true believer will not lose it.

The question that really should be asked is "what is a true believer?"

What is the difference between unbelieving and lost....

 

[Jackson123]

He received, he didn't believed.

To me recieve the Gospel mean believe the gospel.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hi All,

Some interesting things to consider. An "unbeliever" is one that does not believe God's Word, neither come to the Word. This is the condemnation, that the Word is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Word, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the Word, neither comes to the Word, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the Word, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jesus says why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. We are not following God if we are holding on to the teachings and traditions of man in place of the Word of God. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Psa 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Isa 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Th 2:11-12,
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:3-4,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, isa liar, and the truth is not in him.

God bless you

Yet the Devil himself believed and used the word but not saved.

 

[Jackson123]

John 2.23-25? there are different types of belief not all are saved. Only those who believe from the heart,

is there any believe not from the heart?

 

[LoveGodForever]

I do, but DO YOU (eg John 6.39) but an unbeliever can know His working. In revival many taste the heavenly gift, but they do not receive it. a man under conviction also tastes the good word of God and the power of the age to come. But that is the point, He then turns away like the Jews to whom the writer was speaking. you mean we have to accept your interpretation and reject Jesus words? John 6.39; 10.27-28

Friend you do are you feel like. Believe God's Word or do not believe it. I did not give you an interpretation I only share God's Word. You are putting your interpretation on it because you do not like what it says. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

God bless

 

[Limey410v2]

To me recieve the Gospel mean believe the gospel.

Yeah, its not the same thing.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yet the Devil himself believed and used the word but not saved.

The Devil was a liar from the beginning because he used the Word of God and turned it into a lie through his interpretation of it. He believed that there is a God but that is all. So do many "Unbelievers"

God bless

 

[Jackson123]

Yeah, its not the same thing.

so you believe recieve the Bible mean do not believe the Bible?

what is recieve the Bible mean?