Not By Works

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

So two points here i have not yet reponded to how does an angel fall from heaven if the angel is not saved... ????

secondly you say you are full of Gods grace and so you are fully saved ? fully saved means you are the done deal does it not .....

tell me have you done what no other has done and recieve there final salvation befor the end of our age ?

Rosemaryx · Aug 4, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

I agree with your post Stunnedbygrace because when i started reading my Bible, i can`t remember who advised me but they said " When you read Scripture Rosemary, alway`s read a few above the Scripture you are actually reading and from below", that is something i do often to make sure i am reading the true meaning, i believe that was great advice i was given as i had not long been walking with our Lord...xox...

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

1. I am full of grace, again, that is why I am fully saved. Your the one who is depending on insufficient grace my friend
2. Another attack.. You have nothing to say but attack, mind if I ask why you are here?Satan was not born dead now was he?

Satan also is not offered grace and a chance to be saved now is he?

So your question concerning grace and satan is not valid.. is it?? You can not compare Satan and mankind.

JIMBO43 said:

Just one more question your post here does yet again et declare your saved and where not.. which makes you in the same leaugue as those who lets Gods enabling grace say... i am better than you because i have fruited and you havent... i bet some who have this power have took this attitude,,, what do you think et.. ?????????????????????????????????????

garee · Aug 4, 2017

No such thing as accidental sin. Christ paid the wage of even the secret sins, the ones he does bring to mind even years later after a person denies Him in unbelief (no faith) .

When we do sin we should expect a feeling of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. It will not devour his children who he call to turn to comfort them a called repentance. A work of Christ who works in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure and after the turning them they can repent comfort their own selves. The adversary will receive a strong delusion to be the live unlike the believer who will be called back again, again and again.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mat 16:22

No strong delusion fro the believers. There is forgiveness with Christ so that he might be feared according to His love and MERCY . The judgment and fiery indignation for those who are sent the strong delusion to believe the lie .Never for His children

Rosemaryx · Aug 4, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Hi Ariel...I believe that many of us as Gods children will walk away from Him in out burst of anger or whatever, just as kids stomp away from their parents in a strop, but after the storm has passed, we realize that it was our emotions that set us in action to behave in this way, that is when we can come back to God and truly give Him our Godly sorrow, He already knows our emotions will get the better of us, some people take more time to get through things untill they come out the other side in the light again, but what about those that deliberately walk away from Him,i don`t know if what i am typing is true because i have never walked away from God since He called me , but can God not sear our hearts if we continue in rebellion, the more we sin and refuse to repent, our conciseness hardens, so the more sin on top of sin hardens the heart even further untill it becomes like stone, and then when certain people who have walked away decide they have once again had enough of their evil ways, they turn back to God, but God will not hear them, it`s just my opinion...xox...

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Hi Ariel...I believe that many of us as Gods children will walk away from Him in out burst of anger or whatever, just as kids stomp away from their parents in a strop, but after the storm has passed, we realize that it was our emotions that set us in action to behave in this way, that is when we can come back to God and truly give Him our Godly sorrow, He already knows our emotions will get the better of us, some people take more time to get through things untill they come out the other side in the light again, but what about those that deliberately walk away from Him,i don`t know if what i am typing is true because i have never walked away from God since He called me , but can God not sear our hearts if we continue in rebellion, the more we sin and refuse to repent, our conciseness hardens, so the more sin on top of sin hardens the heart even further untill it becomes like stone, and then when certain people who have walked away decide they have once again had enough of their evil ways, they turn back to God, but God will not hear them, it`s just my opinion...xox...

beauitiful and can i just add that theese emotions you bare could also be the fruits which you harvest from Gods grace.

stonesoffire · Aug 4, 2017

followjesus said:

I don't disagree...every day is new with His mercies. I see a problem though with many in their thinking. Sins are just a result of how we see ourself, and how we react to a situation or temptation. It's not overnight that we become patient with people, or even with ourselves. We are fallen people..with Light flooding our spirit yet, our soul which is our human person..needs saved on a continual basis...so today is the day of salvation.

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

faith i cant lose it i just cant....

[video=youtube;qkuwhscOLK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuwhscOLK0[/video]

eternally-gratefull · Aug 4, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I think it was said when this thread first started, We think the issue is people defenition of sin.. I think alot of people do not realise what sin really is, Or they try to label these sins as bad sins, and these sins, while bad, it is ok.. and these things they are not sin at all..

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

Faith will not work without love

stonesoffire · Aug 4, 2017

Truth is a person Fran
.

Really? I just looked and I don't see those words at all. Perhaps you perceive that is what is said. Why would that be?

Sin consciousness Fran. Not individual sins. Look at the term and find out what it is. We have a conscience that knows right and wrong and that's not the new creation man. Even fallen men know.

~Rom 13:8　 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
　
Rom 13:9　 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.　

The 10 commandments. Why didn't you just say the 10 commandments rather than a list that we must do?

Rom 13:10　 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.　

Rom 13:11　 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
　
Rom 13:12　 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.　

Rom 13:13　 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
　
Rom 13:14　 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.　

I've spoken of this many times. We don't obey laws which are outward obedience to what is written. Control. This does not work.

You aren't presenting the answer which is to put on Jesus Christ. Think righteousness. Walk in the love that He has given us. Even agape love is not of ourselves. This is His love.

In fact, in Romans 13:14 Paul says to make no provision for the flesh and its lusts. already addressed.

There is no condemnation to those who walk in Spirit. How can one walk in Spirit if one thinks they are flesh? That's the very first step that we need to know. We are now Spirit. No longer flesh. Condemnation paralyzes one that they can't move forward to receive forgiveness. Mercy and love through forgiveness is restoration.

He has forgiven all sins. The sins of the world He has died for. That is all sin. The very nature of sin is struck down by the Cross. That is the gospel.

This is discernment. Going beyond what men can see with natural eyes, hearing of ears, but seeing in the Spirit.

Only in your head Fran.

[/QUOTE]

Your problem continues when you say "behave properly". You can't see what we are saying.

stonesoffire · Aug 4, 2017

FranC said:

In 1John...he speaks of babes, young men, and fathers.

Stages of growth.

stonesoffire · Aug 4, 2017

FranC said:

Sanctification comes through receiving Holy Spirit. We are set apart for God. Salvation is for our soul. We are saved permanently within our spirit by being sealed.

And we walk trusting the Lord to save us by His promises. And He does.

Try not to be snarky Fran. Doesn't go well with the mantle of Jesus.

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

communion time

I just spoke with God ,,,,,,,,,god asked me are you pushing works for salvation ? i said no im just saying we should love you in return and undoubtably your seed you planted in adam..

a voice said ok i lift you up and carry on my son

stonesoffire · Aug 4, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

I have wondered about a verse for a long time so I may as well ask the opinions of all of you since I am finding you all to be a great help while we walk well in here.

It is the verses that say: Woe...it will be more tolerable or better for these or those unbelievers than it will be for you on the day of judgement. (My paraphrase).

The verse astounds me.
I have thought of it together with: If you didn't say you could see, you would have no sin, but since you say you can see...

I can't quite glean it though.

Which verse stunned?

mailmandan · Aug 4, 2017

FranC said:

There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification--WHICH IS THE PROCESS--not to be confused with justification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

JIMBO43 · Aug 4, 2017

It is written faith dispels fear and worry.. tell me if where the done deal then how come we still fear.. ? faith is saving grace not salvation is my answer.....

PeterJens · Aug 4, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

This may sound ok at a distance, but what sins are you specifically talking about.
If you do not define exactly what you mean, it could be your legalistic mind is calling some things
as evil and somethings as good which the bible does not describe.

A for instance is fear, or anger, or desire, or good works, or to have more than one wife.
How many people realise God did not say it is evil to have more than one wife, just elders
should not have more than one wife.

Following the logic on, a lot of problems come from having more than one wife, the emphasis
being on the physical side of the relationship and not the spiritual, which is more what scripture
is driving at.

This shows the legalistic view of sin, where adding to the word is ok, because the objective is
not to walk righteously but feel fallen and lost, incapable of walking righteously.

And once you accept sin is unavoidable, the answer is just to stay where you are.
No problem defining sin correctly, because it is just a way of driving people to Christ.
So in this church it is appearing to know Christ, while living like everyone else, ie
honest hypocracy.

Stephen63 · Aug 4, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

This is a lie, because there's no place in the Greek where abide is a "permanent position".

Strong's Concordance

menó: to stay, abide, remain

Original Word: μένω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: menó
Phonetic Spelling: (men'-o)
Short Definition: I remain, abide
Definition: I remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: I wait for, await.NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to stay, abide, remain
NASB Translation
abide (16), abides (22), abiding (4), await (1), continue (4), continues (1), endures (3), enduring (1), lasting (2), lives (1), living (1), remain (20), remained (6), remaining (1), remains (8), stand (1), stay (11), stayed (11), staying (3), waiting (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3306: ἐνμένω

[ἐνμένω, see ἐμμένω and under the word ἐν, III. 3.]
STRONGS NT 3306: μένωμένω; imperfect ἔμενον; future μένω; 1 aorist ἔμεινα; pluperfect μεμενήκειν without augment (1 John 2:19; cf. ἐκβάλλω (and see Tdf. Proleg., p. 120f)); (from Homerdown); the Sept. chiefly for עָמַד and קוּם, also for חִכָּה, יָשַׁב, etc.; to remain, abide;
I. intransitively; in reference:
1. to place;
a. properly, equivalent to Latincommoror, to sojourn, tarry: ἐν with the dative of place, Luke 8:27; Luke 10:7; John 7:9; John 11:6; Acts 20:15; Acts 27:31; Acts 28:30 (R G L); 2 Timothy 4:20; with adverbs of place: ἐκεῖ, Matthew 10:11; John 2:12; John 10:40; (John 11:54 WH Tr text); ὧδε, Matthew 26:38; Mark 14:34; παρά τίνι, with one, John 1:39(); ; Acts 18:20 (R G); ; σύν τίνι, Luke 1:56; καθ' ἑαυτόν, dwell at his own House, Acts 28:16, cf. Acts 28:30. equivalent to tarry as a guest, lodge: ποῦ, John 1:38 (); ἐν with the dative of place, Luke 19:5; Acts 9:43; παρά τίνι, in one's house, Acts 9:43; Acts 18:3; Acts 21:8; of tarrying for a night, μετά τίνος, σύν τίνι, Luke 24:29. equivalent to to be kept, to remain: dead bodies ἐπί τοῦ σταυροῦ, John 19:31; τό κλῆμα ἐντῇ ἀμπέλῳ, John 15:4.
b. tropically; α. equivalent to not to depart, not to leave, to continue to be present: μετά τίνος (genitive of person), to maintain unbroken fellowship with one, adhere to his party, 1 John 2:19; to be constantly present to help one, of the Holy Spirit, John 14:16 R G; also παρά with the dative of person, John 14:17; ἐπί τινα, to put forth constant influence upon one, of the Holy Spirit, John 1:32f; also of the wrath of God, John 3:36; τό κάλυμμα ἐπί τῇ ἀναγνώσει, of that which continually prevents the right understanding of what is read, 2 Corinthians 3:14. In the mystic phraseology of John, God is said μένειν in Christ, i. e. to dwell as it were within him, to be continually operative in him by his divine influence and energy, John 14:10; Christians are said μένειν ἐν τῷ Θεῷ, to be rooted as it were in him, knit to him by the spirit they have received from him, 1 John 2:6, 24, 27; 1 John 3:6; hence, one is said μένειν in Christ or in God, and conversely Christ or God is said μένειν in one: John 6:56; John 15:4; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:13, 16; ὁ Θεός μένει ἐν αὐτῷ καί αὐτός ἐντῷ Θεῷ, 1 John 4:15; cf. Rückert, Abendmahl, p. 268f μένει τί ἐνἐμοί, something has established itself permanently within my soul, and always exerts its power in me: τά ῤήματα μου, John 15:7; ὁ λόγοςτοῦ Θεοῦ, 1 John 2:14; ἡ χαρά ἡ ἐμή (not joy in me, i. e. of which I am the object, but the joy with which I am filled), John 15:11 Rec.; ὁἠκουσατα, 1 John 2:24; the Holy Spirit, John 2:17; John 3:9; ἡἀλήθεια, 2 John 1:2; love toward God, 1 John 3:17; in the same sense one is said ἔχειν τί μένον ἐν ἑαυτῷ, as τόν λόγον τοῦ Θεοῦ, John 5:38; ζωήν αἰώνιον, 1 John 3:15. equivalent to to persevere; ἐντίνι, of him who cleaves, holds fast, to a thing: ἐν τῷ λόγῳ, John 8:31; ἐν τῇ ἀγάπη, 1 John 4:16; ἐν πίστει, 1 Timothy 2:15; ἐν οἷς (ἐντούτοις, ἅ) ἔμαθες, 2 Timothy 3:14; ἐν τῇ διδαχή, 2 John 1:9 (ἐντῷ Ἰουδαϊσμῷ, 2 Macc. 8:1); differently ἐν τῇ ἀγάπη τίνος, i. e. to keep oneself always worthy of his love, John 15:9f β. to be held, or kept, continually: ἐν τῷ θανάτῳ, in the state of death, 1 John 3:14; ἐν τῇσκοτία, John 12:46; ἐν τῷ φωτί, 1 John 2:10.

Every meaning requires something out of the one abiding.

To Be Continued

Stephen63 · Aug 4, 2017

USES: (all of these require action of the one abiding)

Matthew 10:11 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐστιν κἀκεῖ μείνατε ἕως ἂν
NAS: is worthy in it, and stay at his house
KJV: and there abide till
INT: is and there remain until anyhowMatthew 11:23 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐν σοί ἔμεινεν ἂν μέχρι
NAS: which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
INT: in you it had remained anyhow until
Matthew 26:38 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἕως θανάτου μείνατε ὧδε καὶ
NAS: of death; remain here
KJV: even unto death: tarry ye here, and
INT: even to death remain here and
Mark 6:10 V-PMA-2P
GRK: οἰκίαν ἐκεῖ μένετε ἕως ἂν
NAS: you enter a house, stay there until
KJV: an house, there abide till ye depart
INT: a house there remain until anyhow
Mark 14:34 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἕως θανάτου μείνατε ὧδε καὶ
NAS: of death; remain here
KJV: unto death: tarry ye here, and
INT: even to death remain here and
Luke 1:56 V-AIA-3S
GRK: Ἔμεινεν δὲ Μαριὰμ
NAS: And Mary stayed with her about three
KJV: And Mary abode with her
INT: abode moreover Mary
Luke 8:27 V-IIA-3S
GRK: οἰκίᾳ οὐκ ἔμενεν ἀλλ' ἐν
NAS: time, and was not living in a house,
KJV: clothes, neither abode in [any] house,
INT: a house not did abide but in
Luke 9:4 V-PMA-2P
GRK: εἰσέλθητε ἐκεῖ μένετε καὶ ἐκεῖθεν
NAS: house you enter, stay there until
KJV: into, there abide, and thence
INT: you might enter there remain and from there
Luke 10:7 V-PMA-2P
GRK: τῇ οἰκίᾳ μένετε ἐσθίοντες καὶ
NAS: Stay in that house, eating
KJV: the same house remain, eating and
INT: house abide eating and
Luke 19:5 V-ANA
GRK: δεῖ με μεῖναι
NAS: for today I must stay at your house.
KJV: I must abide at thy
INT: it behoves me to remain
Luke 24:29 V-AMA-2S
GRK: αὐτὸν λέγοντες Μεῖνον μεθ' ἡμῶν
NAS: Him, saying, Stay with us, for it is [getting] toward
KJV: him, saying, Abide with us:
INT: him saying Abide with us
Luke 24:29 V-ANA
GRK: εἰσῆλθεν τοῦ μεῖναι σὺν αὐτοῖς
NAS: So He went in to stay with them.
KJV: And he went in to tarry with them.
INT: he entered in to abide with them
John 1:32 V-AIA-3S
GRK: οὐρανοῦ καὶ ἔμεινεν ἐπ' αὐτόν
NAS: out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.
KJV: a dove, and it abode upon him.
INT: heaven and it remained upon him
John 1:33 V-PPA-ANS
GRK: καταβαῖνον καὶ μένον ἐπ' αὐτόν
NAS: descending and remaining upon Him, this
KJV: descending, and remaining on him,
INT: descending and abiding on him
John 1:38 V-PIA-2S
GRK: Διδάσκαλε ποῦ μένεις
NAS: Teacher), where are You staying?
KJV: Master,) where dwellest thou?
INT: Teacher where abide you
John 1:39 V-PIA-3S
GRK: εἶδαν ποῦ μένει καὶ παρ'
NAS: where He was staying; and they stayed
KJV: saw where he dwelt, and abode
INT: saw where he abides and with
John 1:39 V-AIA-3P
GRK: παρ' αὐτῷ ἔμειναν τὴν ἡμέραν
NAS: He was staying; and they stayed with Him that day,
KJV: he dwelt, and abode with him
INT: with him they abode the day
John 2:12 V-AIA-3P
GRK: καὶ ἐκεῖ ἔμειναν οὐ πολλὰς
NAS: and His disciples; and they stayed there
KJV: and they continued there
INT: and there they abode not many
John 3:36 V-PIA-3S
GRK: τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ' αὐτόν
NAS: but the wrath of God abides on him.
KJV: the wrath of God abideth on him.
INT: of God abides on him
John 4:40 V-ANA
GRK: ἠρώτων αὐτὸν μεῖναι παρ' αὐτοῖς
NAS: to Jesus, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed
KJV: him that he would tarry with
INT: they asked him to abide with them
John 4:40 V-AIA-3S
GRK: αὐτοῖς καὶ ἔμεινεν ἐκεῖ δύο
NAS: Him to stay with them; and He stayed there
KJV: them: and he abode there two
INT: them and he abode there two
John 5:38 V-PPA-AMS
GRK: ἐν ὑμῖν μένοντα ὅτι ὃν
NAS: His word abiding in you, for you do not believe
KJV: his word abiding in you:
INT: in you abiding for whom
John 6:27 V-PPA-AFS
GRK: βρῶσιν τὴν μένουσαν εἰς ζωὴν
NAS: but for the food which endures to eternal
KJV: which endureth unto
INT: food which abides unto life
John 6:56 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ἐν ἐμοὶ μένει κἀγὼ ἐν
NAS: My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
KJV: my blood, dwelleth in me,
INT: in me abides and I in
John 7:9 V-AIA-3S
GRK: εἰπὼν αὐτὸς ἔμεινεν ἐν τῇ
NAS: these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.
KJV: unto them, he abode [still] in
INT: having said to them he remained in

Not By Works

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Poetic Member

Banned

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Banned

Poetic Member

Poetic Member

Poetic Member

Banned

Poetic Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned