The book of Hebrews

Desertsrose · Aug 3, 2017

Hi Jason,

I'll try to follow along.

Genesis 20:6,7
Then in the dream God replied to him, “Yes, I know that you have done this with a clear conscience. That is why I have kept you from sinning against me and why I did not allow you to touch her. 7 But now give back the man’s wife. Indeed he is a prophet and he will pray for you; thus you will live. But if you don’t give her back, know that you will surely die along with all who belong to you.”

I believe that Abraham was the first prophet.

followjesus · Aug 3, 2017

Desertsrose said:

im glad you find this worth checking out and considering, Hello sister

if you really consider it, Adam would have been the first prophet depending on our thinking that a prophet, is One Who Hears Gods Word and speaks it to others.

for eve had been instructed about What God had said, and theres no record of God speaking the commandments to eve. I believe in this, we understand that God has always spoken through Man, to man. or through angels to man. of Course there are a few exceptions above all Being Jesus the Christ, abram who became abraham. while some miss the angel of the Lord " malakh Adonia" in the hebrew " King of angels" Lord od heavely Host" and " angel of the Lords Presence" who often speaks as if He is God. such as

exodus 3 :And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

and this to abraham

Genesis 22:15-17 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Im not sure if you are interested in the Hebrew. or aramaic. But there is a King of the angels, " Malakh Adonia" who many times speaks as if He Himself is God. Of Course we Know this is not so. but the aramaic and Hebrew identify Him as " the angel of the Lords Presence" or the " angel of Gods Face" or " the Lord of the Heavenly host" also He appears when God tells the israelites His angel will go before them, and has the power to forgive thier sins, and warns them noit to contend with Him, because He bears Gods Name. in the Hebrew He appears around 40-45 times, and always speaks with the authority of God Himself. where as Other angels that appear and speak and also prophets will always say " this is the word of the Lord" where as He will as He did with moses and the Bush speak as woith the personal authority of God. which explains why paul says this

Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

and stephen says this

acts 7:37 "Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

the point being that Jesus Knew what No one else ever did and Johns testimony in conjunction with Jesus many words is true

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

My point..that angels speaking for God, and prophets speaking for God were all a foreshadow of the One God would send to speak His Words in all His authority. ( deuteronomy 18:15-19, acts 3:22-26)

followjesus · Aug 3, 2017

Desertsrose said:

I should clarify, saying Moses is the first, i was referring to after the flood when God delivered the fathers. Moses was the first prophet, and mediator of the Law is what I was trying to articulate. certainly that scripture there shows abraham was certainly a prophet, and even Noah before Him being a preacher of righteousness, and speaking Gods Word to shem, ham and japeth. regarding the covenant of the fathers, i should have been more clear Moses was the first prophet of that order.

followjesus · Aug 4, 2017

so a summary of things that are really evident so far. God spoke to the fathers of israel through prophets, He has spoken in these last days to all of us through His Son( ch1 v 1-4), Jesus is far above all. even angels being the Son of God ( ch 1-ch2:8) Jesus though Being the express image of God, willingly chose to be made Like us, in order that we may partake of Him, and be called children of God.(2:9-17) Jesus is clearly the atonement sacrifice, Having purged our sins by His own Blood, Jesus Knows what we face in temptation,( 2:17-19 )therefore Having crushed temptation facing its full force as we do, never commiting a sin, He is able to help us in our time of need regarding temptation.( 4:14-16)and How this makes Him the perfect High priest of the Hevenly, eternal Things He offeres in the Gospel. (2:14-18 , 3:1-6,)

One other point that keeps recurring is we are warned to Learn from those who rebelled in the wildreness after the deliverance from egypt. we can clearly see we need to take Heed of Jesus words lest they slip and we fall short of the calling. and were admonished to learn this by remembering what they did, and the result of it. ( 2:1-4, 3:7-19,) and finally the importance and working power in us of Gods Word is evident throughout Highlighted By Hebrews 4:12.

remember were only at chapter 4 thus far and there is a ton of things already established very clearly in the book of Hebrews, things we really cant deny, or ignore because they arent out of context single verses, but recurring themes that keep popping up the writers are really making thierselves clear. at this point things begin to get deeply informative regarding The Priesthood leading to later chapters where we learn the priesthoods change, necessatates also a change of the Law. things from Here really do Help alot if we understand the terms as the Bible defines them in the first covenant.

chapter 5 to be the in the next comment, remember there will be ot scripture to help those of us who want to really grasp whats being explained, regarding the ot references made.

followjesus · Aug 4, 2017

This section Now builds upon the priesthood of Jesus and also leads to a stern personal rebuke to the readers that leads into chapter 6. which also should be taken by some of us who Have been in Christs things awhile and are still needing the " Milk" and refusing the meat and potatoes of the Word ive always looked to this rebuke as being about growth, and working encouragement to us to remain established and active in our faith and not be afraid, to learn and grow because it produces the real fruit God desires as we do. a reminder not to toss away all they have been explaining, but let the rest begin to build upon those things. slowly we start seeing why they establish the supremacy of Christ before they teach of His priesthood that really becomes evident later on in this wonderfully informative book. they continue regarding the priesthood of melchezidek of Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus.

Hebrews 5

v 1-4 "For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. "

( a quick note the example above is drawing from the levitical priesthood of aaron who needed to offer for His own sins and the people, pointing to what is later to come in this letter regarding the covenant change below is referring to Jesus)

"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.(psalm 2:7, Luke 3:22,Matthew 17:5, acts 13:33) As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. ( psalm110:4)"

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

at this point the writers move into a stiff rebuke of the audience intended, which also in my own Humble belief can be applied to many of us still today, having refused to move forward and mature in the faith. you will notice that Just before the rebuke " We have many thing to say concerning this subject " and you will notice the rebuke interrupts what the writers have been saying concerning Jesus priesthood which are hard to be uttered because the people refuse to hear and need to be re-taught the basic doctrines of Our Faith.

and after this rebuke the subject of the priesthood of Jesus continues. realize there is "Strong Meat" for us to grow strong with found in subjects like the heavenly priesthood of Our Lord. though not everyone is there at that point as of yet, still we seek after the the deeper things of God no matter the depth we are at currently. the chapter concludes beginning the rebuke that stretches into the 6th chapter and then the inerrupted subject, picks up where it left off in ch5: v 10 above.

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

again a reminder that this is really going somewhere wonderful regarding the two covenants How they are revealed in each other and in the coming chapters we really are fed strong meat that will cause strength of bones, Muscles and discernment to take Hold of our understanding. and the importance of understanding the Law especially the levitical Laws of the priesthood.

God Bless you, whether you seek meat or Milk ch 6 later or tomorrow as I have time. again a reminded this is Just sharing Gods Word, and some things that i see, I find Hebrews to be One of the strongest, and important books after the 4 Gospels that we have in the Word, though all of it is a blessing Hebrews is a vast wealth of good strong Understanding that Helps to connect the new and old covenants, clarify things and also is full of those Loving and wonderful warnings and encouraging Rebukes of the Fathers Love.

Nehemiah6 · Aug 4, 2017

followjesus said:

I should clarify, saying Moses is the first, i was referring to after the flood when God delivered the fathers. Moses was the first prophet, and mediator of the Law is what I was trying to articulate. certainly that scripture there shows abraham was certainly a prophet, and even Noah before Him being a preacher of righteousness, and speaking Gods Word to shem, ham and japeth. regarding the covenant of the fathers, i should have been more clear Moses was the first prophet of that order. [/QUOTE]
Not to sidetrack the thread, but actually God called Abraham a prophet long before Moses appeared on the scene (Gen 20:7)

Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

followjesus · Aug 4, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

followjesus said:

Yep abram was a prophet and was before Moses No argument

i was trying to say to sister D.R. there

" Moses was the first prophet, and mediator of the Law is what I was trying to articulate. certainly that scripture there shows abraham was certainly a prophet, and even Noah before Him being a preacher of righteousness, and speaking Gods Word to shem, ham and japeth. regarding the covenant of the fathers, i should have been more clear Moses was the first prophet of that order. "

Heres what i am saying.

Luke 24:25-27 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

and

acts 3:22-22-24 "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, ( Deuteronomy 18:15-19)A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days."

I should have been more clear there, i wasnt saying Moses was the first prophet ever, i actually believe adam to be the first, what im saying is this.

abram was before the Law was Given 430 years before.( Galatians 3:17) Hebrews Begins speaking of the two covenants. Making Moses the first prophet of the first order. the two covenants are based on Gods Promises to abram. God says this to abram regarding the first covenant.

Genesis 15:12-16 "And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve,( Egypt) will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full."

Then He tells moses this 400 years later.

exodus 3:10-12 "Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain."

Our covenant is also Based on the promise to abraham. when He refers to " Through thy seed all peoples of the earth will be blessed" the first covenant of this promise is to abrams blood seed, the second covenant is the promise that THROUGH abrams seed all peoples on the earth will be included. the Law given to israel, when they are delivered from slavery in egypt through Moses. and the Gospel for the salvation of the Whole world.being delivered from slavery to sin, through Jesus. Moses was the first Prophet of the first of those two covenants, the first order of priesthood was given through Moses being aaron the first High priest.

this again excluding Melchezidek, Being before in the time of abraham for He was High priest of God.( Genesis 14:18) the Law is between that time of abram, and the Gospel time. there are three time periods. 400 years between each. there is from adam to Joseph, when the captivity to egypt Begins to happen ( then 400 years silence) then From Moses and the exodus to the end of the prophets Malachi. (then 400 years silence) then Matthew to the end of the earth. which is Our time.

some will say 300 years between joseph and Moses but God clearly says 400 years captivity to abram in Genesis 15. we see the beginnings of Pharoah inviting Jacob to egypt and then we see the beginnings of thier enslavement start to unfold Jospeh dies. then we see in the next book, the deliverance after 400 years as God said.

abram was promised the above there concerning His relatives ( Israel) then 400 years later, Moses is given to deliver that promise. this covenant is what we Know as the Law of Moses. after Malachi, there are also 400 years until Christ is Given to deliver all peoples on earth.

Hebrews is dealing with those two covenants. that came from the promise to abram. things concerning Jesus began to be preached from Moses forward. they were promised to abram and delivered through Moses, the prophets, and came to pass in Christ Jesus' coming. you see faint things that point to Jesus in the first order mostly we see Why we need a savior, then the Law of moses time makes many references to Him, the prophets even More, then the Gospel He arrives and the epistles testify and expound about Him.

Moses being the first prophet of that order where Hebrews is picking up..

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

Here as chapter 6 begins, we see the fact that the original manuscripts, were never split up into chapters, as the rebuke that ends ch5, continues into chapter 6. when you see the word " therefore" it connects directly to what is being said prior,

see the beginning of this warning in the end of ch 5...the authors continue ....

Hebrews 6

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. ( all the basic fundamentals) And this will we do, if God permit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Note Here that receiving the Holy spirit is not a guaranteed pass to salvation, for those spoken of Had received the spirit but refused to grow and mature. and note that repentance Here is about our sins for why was Jesus Crucified if not for our sins? and if the need is to re crucify Him, it is speaking of Our sins. they continue. making this point....

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

( see John ch 15 :5-6 for One place of many to help see this)

after this very true and very plain rebuke and severe warning, the writers as the Bible always does offers encouragement. Not contradicting whats just been said, both things are written to the same church and need to be put together its not one or the other or 2-1=1, but 1+1 =2.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered ( attended to the needs of) to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

(diligence in service to others , Faith, patience, work, labour)

For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

we see now what a great comfort Gods Promised and also His COUNSEL is, How trustworthy it is to believe Gods Word. both promise and counsel. what a great encouragement to balance the warning, Gods Word always does this " Grace + Truth"

and as you see the writers have moved all of this back into the subject of the priesthood of Melchezidek and the truth that Jesus Has become High priest in the order of Melchezidek. remember all that Has been said about this so far, all the trouble the writers Have Gone to already in this letter regarding this matter. its in chapter 2 chapter 4 Most of ch5 and Now is moving Back into the priesthood of Melchezidek. This is where it gets really Good and really deep.

in chapters 7 and 8 the writers finally reveal why they have went to such lengths to establish the things thus far, 7 and 8 drive Home the fact that Jesus is this High priest, that His preisthood is eternal and begin to express How this affects a new and eternal covenant, we start to see How the covenant is based upon Jesus Priesthood. Now that the writers have established all He has done for us in His death, that through the Son we are children partakers of Himself, that He has spilled His blood for our sins to save us from Death. and that He has passed through the Heavens Our Great High priest forever.

the ending Half of this book makes all that Has been said thus far, make perfect sense and the value pops out to the seekers. sort of Like Building a House, first you have to lay a foundation, solid as the writers Have done using so many quotes from the psalms and Isaiah this being Like the foundation, and a foundation doesnt Look at all like a finished House, the rest of the Book of Hebrews sets the walls and roof in place until a whole House becomes evident, and it is a solid One to Live in. a few chapters from now is when the Ot Laws and scripture come into importance for understanding. the Beauty of this book is truly found when its structure is followed whoever the authors of this book Had amazing understanding of Both testaments and thier deep relationship to one another.

God Bless

posthuman · Aug 5, 2017

followjesus said:

are you saying that God - who created man and the spirit in him - previously was lacking understanding?
and that He's now changed?
that somehow since He's "come around to the human point of view" He's able to "see things our way" and finally offer salvation?

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

posthuman said:

im saying God is not flesh and Blood and cannot be tempted

James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

which is one of the reasons He Sent His Son in the flesh

Matthew 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

which Leads to the understanding in Hebrews regarding this

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

God Has never been tempted, Jesus Has been tempted and overcame it, never yielding to sin. this truth makes Him the perfect High Priest having experianced temptation for Himself, He is able to strengthen us when we face it. its just One of the many reasons that God sent Jesus to be born of flesh and blood. its why the scriptures are all here in this thread regarding Hebrews. im not saying anything other than whats there. reserve Judgement until the thread is finished, because there is alot more pertaining to this. that being said, no one needs to see what i see, we should all let the scriptures in though especially when we are offended at them or dont previously agree with them.

God bless

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

The subject has now been returned to where the writers left of in ch5. Melchezidek High Priest of God. the writers Now spend a moment referring us Back to genesis, and abrahams encounter with this mysterious High Priest, who is not mentioned where He came from, His geneology, or the end of His Life as all others are recorded in the Holy scriptures. they have already been saying that Jesus Priesthood is of the order of Melchezidek, Now they are referring Back to the record of His sudden appearance and then relative disappearance from scripture until the book of Hebrews comes, making the connection to Jesus Son of God, the High priest in the Order of Melchezidek and we see in the second half of this chapter, the relation to the priesthood and the testament they preside over.

this is a long chapter so i will break it up into 2 parts, also will provide abrahams encounter that they are discussing Here.So lots of scripture to consider.

Hebrews 7:1-10

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."

notice How the priesthood Law ( Levites) of tithings and blessings are modeled after this encounter abram Had with this Melchezidek 4oo plus years before the Law was ever given through Moses. Here is the encounter of abram and melchezidek, you will notice similitudes of Jesus and things He brought forth especially when considering what Hebrews is saying about Jesus and melchezidek.

a little pre story Here, abram and Lot departed thier homeleand when God speaks to abram in ch12. Lot was abrams nephew and went with him. they part ways and lot occupies the lands near sodom. there is a war of Nine Kings 4 against 5. the king of sodom flees and Lot and all His family and possessions are taken captive by the victorious Kings. abram Hears of this and then takes His servants and rescues Lot and all His possessions, and all the people taken captive. then this happens.....

Genesis 14:17-20"And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."

Do you see the Bread and Wine? consider the last supper now and the meaning of the communion we partake of. Do you see How abram who is considered a friend of God, reveres this Melchezidek and pays Him a tenth of everything? How this really shows us The Greatness of this Priesthood, that is not of the Mosaic Law, but the model for it. Do you see that He is a King and also a Priest of God most High? there is no geneology of Him, no mention of Him prior, or after. King of salem is to say "King of righteousness" and "King of Peace" No record of His birth or death in scripture. these are the things the writers are speaking to us from, Here in Hebrews.

Now consider Jesus Our King of righteousness, and peace between God and man, consider His Body and Blood, and the Bread and Wine. How He is greater than Abram, and Has the Authority to bless Both Abram and God most High. the writers are really showing us the importance of this priesthood they have been explaining, and the clear connection between Melchezidek, and Jesus. we see in these things that even then God was speaking about Jesus it was Just Yet to be made clear, and that Jesus also Understood His connection to Melchezidek and the time before abram and well before the Law.

The rest of chapter 7 to come which continues to Build upon these main and central themes of this book . God bless

Nehemiah6 · Aug 5, 2017

posthuman said:

No. What he is saying is that God EXPERIENCED what men experience when Christ became the God-Man. That is clearly revealed in the book of Hebrews.

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect [complete] through sufferings. (Heb 2:10)

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Heb 2:18)

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

thank you bro. Hebrews doesnt contradict a thing , its about the Why's and what's and who's of why God sent His Son to suffer and die. part of His sufferings, were exactly what you have shown Here His temptations Not only in the desert But all through His ministry satan was tempting Him at any opportune time, we see this clearly in the form of things like the criticisms and questions designed to trap Him, the accusations, and then also in His prayers in the Garden we see that He was struggling with what He Knew was the end of His mission. in Jesus Humanity, we find almighty Gods hand reaching down to us mere men, desireing a kinship with us, making the way for us to be made eternal Children.

God bless

posthuman · Aug 5, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

that's what you're saying, but he wrote that God 'didn't know how it feels' and it seems to me he was placing some emphasis on this being a revelatory experience for God. which is weird, because, omniscience.

i don't get the sense from Hebrews that it was for God's own benefit that He become flesh, rather, for ours, because we didn't know what it is to overcome temptation.

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

posthuman said:

He didnt Know how it felt, thats the point of sending Jesus to experience it. Because He has experienced the feeling and been touched with our weaknesses,yet won the vistory over it never yielding even being One of us. He is the perfect One to strengthen us in those areas because having been tempted Just as we are being made Like us......He becomes the answer to overcoming temptation sending His spirit. God cannot be tempted to sin, Jesus was indeed. God knows through Jesus the feeling of it, knows its pull, Knows what we face Because He is One with Jesus even while he faced temptation.

One of the many purposes in Jesus coming in the flesh, was for God to experience the feeling we go through in temptation. He is Holy, we are not He is all Knowing surely, But one of the purposes of Jesus being sent in flesh and blood, is for God to personally FEEL what we feel in temptation in order to solve the bondage we were in before Jesus through temptation. God always Knew temptation was How we are drawn into sin and death, in Christ He himself experienced what we do. its about Him being made Like us in the Body of His Son, in order to among many other things, have a personal understanding having experienced it. through Christ is our solution.

thats why the Law is so much different and God is constantly frustrated with the people who continually rebel. it was necassary for Christ to arrive and do all He did including be tempted Like we are. in order to soccour or " give us the required assistance or Help" to over come. it also makes His mercy More through Christ for times we fail in our Lives. Im sorry you have issue with my wording But until Jesus was tempted, God could not relate to the waekness of flesh and temptations chains around us.

posthuman · Aug 5, 2017

followjesus said:

He didnt Know how it felt, thats the point of sending Jesus to experience it. Because He has experienced the feeling and been touched with our weaknesses,yet won the vistory over it never yielding even being One of us. He is the perfect One to strengthen us in those areas because having been tempted Just as we are being made Like us......He becomes the answer to overcoming temptation sending His spirit. God cannot be tempted to sin, Jesus was indeed. God knows through Jesus the feeling of it, knows its pull, Knows what we face Because He is One with Jesus even while he faced temptation.

One of the many purposes in Jesus coming in the flesh, was for God to experience the feeling we go through in temptation. He is Holy, we are not He is all Knowing surely, But one of the purposes of Jesus being sent in flesh and blood, is for God to personally FEEL what we feel in temptation in order to solve the bondage we were in before Jesus through temptation. God always Knew temptation was How we are drawn into sin and death, in Christ He himself experienced what we do. its about Him being made Like us in the Body of His Son, in order to among many other things, have a personal understanding having experienced it. through Christ is our solution.

thats why the Law is so much different and God is constantly frustrated with the people who continually rebel. it was necassary for Christ to arrive and do all He did including be tempted Like we are. in order to soccour or " give us the required assistance or Help" to over come. it also makes His mercy More through Christ for times we fail in our Lives. Im sorry you have issue with my wording But until Jesus was tempted, God could not relate to the waekness of flesh and temptations chains around us.

so now you're saying God was inexperienced, and had to learn?

that's why He came in the flesh? because He couldn't comprehend His own creation?

posthuman · Aug 5, 2017

followjesus said:

it's not that. it's actually the thoughts behind your words that i'm probing.
i'm just trying to nail down your view of God and the purpose of Him becoming flesh.

posthuman · Aug 5, 2017

what do you think of Hebrews 2:8 ?

what does that have to do with Hebrews 2:9-18 ?

is it important to what it precedes? what would Hebrews 2:9-18 mean if Hebrews 2:7-8 were left out, or wasn't true?

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

chapter 7's conclusion, we see Here the issue with the first priesthood under the Law.

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. ( Judah was not given a priesthood in the levitical Law) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

( Now we are beginning to see things unfold as to why the writers have established so much regarding this first order of priesthood established before the levitical order ( sons of aaron) ordained of the Law of moses, by the law of Moses Long after the appearing of Melchezidek and patterned after His priesthood. we read Here that a change of the priesthood, makes a change of the Law they preside over, necassary. Jesus is not a priest of the Law of moses this is clear, and because it is also clear that He has become our High priest, this means that we are no longer under the Law of the order of levites. ) they continue this point.

"For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

they have really driven Home this point here, and its becoming clear that the priesthood of melchezidek is eternal. the Levites died, and the priesthood was passed to another. so aaron was High priest, and then He died. this made it impossible for Him to continue in His High priesthood, death the result of sin, made the Law unprofitable, carnal, and also temporary, because the priests who presided over the Law, were. we see also the levites were not made by Oath of God who swore by Himself, concerning Jesus " thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchezidek.

this is where His resurrection is highlighted regarding His priesthood. Because He lives forever, His priesthood is forever. because we have seen that the new priesthood neccesatates a new Law, we can then look back to the first two verses of the book of Hebrews and see that the prophets including Moses spoke in times past, the first covenant, and what was spoken through Jesus is the change of the Law that was necessatated By the changing of the priesthood. this is touched again much clearer later in this letter.

we see also His eternal intercession for those who abide in this new Law of the spirit of Life. rather than the Law of those who died and were discontinued by reason of thier death. Now remember " My words will never pass away" Those are the testament that Our High priest presides over, as the levites presided over and read every seven years, the law of the book of moses, thier ministry to those in the first testament.

in v 26-28 there, the writers are referring back to this from the Law

Leviticus 9:6-And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the LORD shall appear unto you. And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded."

as you should read the entire chapter you will find aaron then does this, and all priests after also. He first offers His offering for His own sin, then for the priests, and then for the people He offers thier offerings. Only the High priest can do this. He is the Only allowed to enter in behind the veil where the Glory of the Lord appears above the mercy seat. He does this both daily, and then Once a year on the day of atonement when the sin of all the people is removed and sent away on the scapegoat.

Jesus Has done this for us, His blood was offered for the sins of all people, and because His Life is in that Blood He shed, the blood sacrifice is Once for all time, it always remains and does not need a re issuing or re shedding of the blood each day or even Once a year on the day of atonement, Because when He died on the cross, that is the fulfillment of the day of atonement pattern we see in the Law. those things in the Law, teach us what His sacrifice Meant. they were but a foreshadowing for us now, though they were the Law at the time they were given, For aarons priesthood within and presiding over the Law of Moses.

Because Jesus Lives forever, having shed His Blood and being Holy He is so much greater and profitable than the levitical priesthood of the Law. Jesus entered in behind the veil in Heaven before the reality of Gods presence, and He does not only enter Once a year, But resides there in Gods Presence forever. so when He intercedes for us, the power of His eternal Life, His blood shed for us testifies forever before God. " His blood speaks a better word of atonement"

because our covenant is paid for by His blood, presided over By His Priesthood, and established by His words all wich are eternal His words, His blood, and His priesthood. we begin to see what the covenant really is, and that it is completely established By Jesus Christ the Son of God eternal. we cannot displace His words, His blood, or His preisthood and still grasp the eternal covenant. this will become much clearer in the chapters to come... God bless you.

followjesus · Aug 5, 2017

posthuman said:

i think that the entire book of Hebrews speaks a very clear message as does the entire Bible, and it is not meant to see one or two verses and base everyhting on that. which again if you have something you can offer, do so, its one of the hopes OI had to begin this thread. that rather than continuing on as we do here in this forum arguing and atenmpting to prove the scripture wrong with another scripture, we sould possibly come together and learn from those scriptures putting things together as is intended.

instead of interrogating me, offer what you have to say, i would ask that its not based on a single scripture however because thats like reading a novel and explaining one sentance tells the entire story. regardles of what any man thinks of me, my intention is to grow into more understanding of Gods Word, Knowing nothing of my opinion, but rather grasping more of Gods Wosdom and Knowledge that flows from His Word. So i would ask you in peace, if you have a point that offers something to those means please do offer it for consideration. God bless

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