Not By Works

[PHart]

How is being cast into hell more or less tolerable? Hell is hell, isn't it? Are there areas worse or better in hell? How will that day be better for the people of Sodom than it will be for those who say they know the truth and walk in the light when the light that is in them is really darkness?

But it seems to be condemning hypocrites worse than it condemns sodomites...how will it be more tolerable for them on that day?

I don't know if you received any answers about this in the many pages that have been posted since you asked, but here is what Jesus says about the varying degrees of punishment at the Judgment for the lost, and what determines the level of punishment the lost person gets:

47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:47-48 NASB)

The thing that is entrusted to the slaves in varying amounts is the knowledge of the truth. Knowing more makes you more accountable to God. Hypocrites are especially damned because they talk up a good show of righteousness, showing how much they know about righteousness, but they don't live what they know. As opposed to the common 'sinner' who is just acting out of his lack of knowledge of the truth. Ignorance is going to be a better excuse on the Day of Judgment than having known the truth but failing to live it.

 

[Stephen63]

A new stanza comes to mind reading the workers for and salvation keepers.....sung to Amazing grace

Amazing works that I must do
To help the savior save me
I once was lost and still might be
Because I trusted fully not in thee

dcon is sooo talented.....

 

[stonesoffire]

for anyone else reading the exchange above

I have never said anything close to what some try to proclaim

I have never stated I hear the Holy Spirit so therefore you are beneath me so I will rebuke you

I do disagree, VERY much, with all this, what I am calling Koo Koo Karismatic beliefs

this would include the school of the prophets, bethel church, joyner, bentely and the whole kit. they are all growing from the same demonic source and do not be deceived, these creepy false prophets, teachers and apostles, are not led by the Holy Spirit. I did not say they never received the Holy Spirit. somewhere along the line, they listened to another spirit and are now caught up in false things that are not biblical and not of God

this is supposed to be a discussion forum. I would hope no one thinks my word is the final one as someone else just suggested their words were

this is nonsense and all this liking and taking sides is nothing more than a popularity contest

however, the Bible is still God's inspired word and the Holy Spirit is in every believer but I would, quite frankly and personally, stay away from those who seem to think the rest of us are not saved because we do not have the Holy Spirit

that's my opinion and be a good Berean.

I do hear His Voice. You should too. And again, you are putting your own thoughts into my post.

 

[stonesoffire]

stonesoffire, you wouldn't agree with it simply because I posted it.

Would you like an explanation why I wouldn't agree? Actually Stephen, I'm quite fond of you. Otherwise I would ignore you.

 

[stonesoffire]

now here I agree.

 

[dcontroversal]

dcon is sooo talented.....

I am glad you are starting to see the light

 

[stonesoffire]

Amen.......the original working for religion attempted to silence the truth as well by murdering some 60 to 80 million during the dark ages...

Well, we are already dead, but alive to Him, so crossing over into His actual presence would be a great plus! Those words aren't even adequate.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know if you received any answers about this in the many pages that have been posted since you asked, but here is what Jesus says about the varying degrees of punishment at the Judgment for the lost, and what determines the level of punishment the lost person gets:

47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:47-48 NASB)

The thing that is entrusted to the slaves in varying amounts is the knowledge of the truth. Knowing more makes you more accountable to God. Hypocrites are especially damned because they talk up a good show of righteousness, showing how much they know about righteousness, but they don't live what they know. As opposed to the common 'sinner' who is just acting out of his lack of knowledge of the truth. Ignorance is going to be a better excuse on the Day of Judgment than having known the truth but failing to live it.

What does your post have to do with

Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

read the chapter.

 

[Stephen63]

I am glad you are starting to see the light

They said you were outstanding because you could build one of these without the instructions.

 

[dcontroversal]

They said you were outstanding because you could build one of these without the instructions.

Hilarious........

 

[MattforJesus]

A Christian is one who acts Christlike,which Jesus said that when He resurrects the saints from off the earth,that the ones that were hypocritical will not be caught up,for they did not act Christlike.

A person that claims Christ,but is hypocritical,will have it worse than a person that did not know the truth.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[stonesoffire]

They said you were outstanding because you could build one of these without the instructions.

wheres your scripture?

 

[stonesoffire]

A Christian is one who acts Christlike,which Jesus said that when He resurrects the saints from off the earth,that the ones that were hypocritical will not be caught up,for they did not act Christlike.

A person that claims Christ,but is hypocritical,will have it worse than a person that did not know the truth.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Mailmandan...*right*? Has already posted a great post on this. You could look back if you so desire.

 

[dcontroversal]

A Christian is one who acts Christlike,which Jesus said that when He resurrects the saints from off the earth,that the ones that were hypocritical will not be caught up,for they did not act Christlike.

A person that claims Christ,but is hypocritical,will have it worse than a person that did not know the truth.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I am almost 51, have dealt with every flavor of people and so called Christian people under the sun....most if not all are hypocritical to a certain extent....some more than others for sure.....a hypocrite after the first or second admonition is to be rejected...the Greek word translated hypocrite = opinionated one......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Mailmandan...*right*? Has already posted a great post on this. You could look back if you so desire.

Would not matter if he read it 500 times...he only buys what is hammered out on his own anvil......

 

[stonesoffire]

Longsuffering..this fruit will be abundant by the time it closes, if ever.

 

[garee]

I don't know if you received any answers about this in the many pages that have been posted since you asked, but here is what Jesus says about the varying degrees of punishment at the Judgment for the lost, and what determines the level of punishment the lost person gets:

47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:47-48 NASB)

Turning things upside down is turning things upside down.

Christ who has been given much received the lashes from the father who bruised him for the one wage of sin “eternal damnation” never to rise to new spirit life ever again . It satisfied the just demands of father so it should satisfy those who walk by faith having not received the promise. The wage of sin is not negotiable. Christians are moved by the work of Christ’s faith to both will and do His good pleasure. We don’t get accredited as being moved as if it was of our own selves and that good works pays for past sin .Good works are the normal not bonues that pay the one wage of sin eternal damnation.

The thing that is entrusted to the slaves in varying amounts is the knowledge of the truth. Knowing more makes you more accountable to God. Hypocrites are especially damned because they talk up a good show of righteousness, showing how much they know about righteousness, but they don't live what they know.

By looking at the imputed righteousness that worked in Abrahm as it did in Rehab or Christians today, to both will and do the good pleasure of God, Christ’s work of faith is made perfect.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith(Christ's) wrought with his works, and by works was faith (christ's)made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Jam 2:21


If we would accredit Christ’s work of faith that worked in them to the flesh of Abraham or Rehab we have already blasphemed the Holy name by which we are called heavenward. The chapter starts out warning against blasphemy by having the faith of Christ in respect to Abraham a sinner

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

 

[oldethennew]

there are many who are wearing the Lamb's fleese - as we are witness to, -
colder become so many hearts - more and more deviltry are sketched upon
so many people's hearts -

The King of Kings refrains from force until the time appointed!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Will look at that scripture.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to hisfather or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching fordoctrines the commandments of men.

The commandments are good. But, the way of the at work in our being is not by law. Law can only control the man of flesh. One who wants to please Father and values the sacrifice of Jesus, is only the born again. Otherwise the Word will just be line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little, there a little. This is not the new living relationship with Jesus through Holy Spirit, and we were never Jews to begin with. Paul said the Jews may observe sabbath in their synagogues if they so wish. But, the church met in homes, and it seems to me that I read it as the first day. I would have to look to be sure. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, and we sit down in the heavenlies with His Victory. And our land that we are looking for is heaven. plus we are led by His Spirit, hear His Voice, believe His prophets. This is part of being of His body on earth. its not hard...why the stumbling, I don't understand.

Hi SOF,

God's Law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus. Without God's Law we do not know what sin is. If there is no knowledge of Sin we have no need of a Savior. If we have no Savior we have no salvation. How do you have salvation with no Jesus? As it says in the scriptures above we cannot follow the traditions and teachings of man over the Word of God. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man and there is no commandment in the bible to keep it in place of God's 4th commandment which is His Word. There is no scripture that says Jesus is our Sabbath. This is a teaching of man made up as an excuse to break God's Law. Following the teachings of man over the Word of God makes us an "Unbeliever" Jesus says that the 7th Day Sabbath was made for mankind. Jesus is the God of creation and the Lord of the Sabbath. This is the Lord's Day and Jesus asks us to keep it. We follow Jesus because we love him. I love Jesus how about you?

God bless

 

[Grace777x70]

There are some extreme sects which say we must keep the law of Moses, Sabbath days, festivals...etc. or we are dis-obeying God and of course this is sinning. These are the Judaizers that Paul refuted and stood against.

There are others that observe things because that is what they want to do and they are free to do so in Christ. We also have the law of liberty in Christ. These others have great things to show how Christ fulfilled the law and in showing Christ in the Hebrew scriptures and how that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest. That is beautiful.

Then there are those that for some strange reason try to change themselves into being Jewish when they are clearly gentiles. They take up with Jewish names for things and try to speak and appear as if they were from a Jewish ethnic background.

They have a messed up identity and our only true identity is in Christ Himself. I believe they have good hearts and most do mean well but are messed up in their minds about the new creation in Christ.

They think that when people say we are not under the law - that everyone will go wild now. The law of the spirit of life in Christ and the love of God within us is what we live by now.

These Judaziers have the very same belief system as works-based salvationists which is why some times they band together.

I noticed that they never refute each other because essentially they have the same message.

Work-based mindsets based on what they do or don't do - depending on the flavor of the fruit on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - instead of the gospel of the grace of Christ in His finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we have become new creations in Him.

These are in reality replacing Christ for the law of Moses/works - the very same thing that works-based believers do although both groups do give "lip service" to Christ and the message of grace that Paul preached because it is hard to get around these.

Eph. 2:8-9 is hard to "get around" but only lip-service is given to the grace of God in Christ's work.

Make no mistake about it - there is an all-out war on the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.