Not By Works

[BillG]

I've met quite a few of them also.

Theology cannot explain what God does not tell us.

Having said that, who says He didn't do everything for Adam?

He sent Jesus didn't He, to fix Adam's mistake, what more do you want?

Oops sorry EG...it just pains not to answer sometimes.

Its intersting when we think about grace.
Today I think a lot of people think that grace appeared with Jesus and when he died it was that grace that saved a wretch like me. Now I am not saying that is wrong. But I sometimes wonder and think that some feel grace is as a result and started when Jesus "Said it is finished" (BTW those words shudder and pierce my heart)

To me the grace of God manifested the minute Adam and Eve ballsed it up.

God could have wiped them out, said I made a mistake (of course he doesn't make mistakes). But no we find after they sinned

Genesis 3:9


9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”


Genesis 3:10-12


10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”


Genesis 3:14-15


14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Genesis 3:21


21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

So we know that God knew what Adam and Eve had done.
First act of grace, he calls out "Where are you? He is searching out after them.

Adam responds "Its her fault" He does not hold his hands up and say "It's my fault" Blind to their own sin.
Second act of grace he knows they have been deceived yet will not admit and he reveals his solution to the problem.

Jesus is the solution, we find this in verses 14-15

3rd act of grace.

God clothes them. No longer naked but clothed with garments, that hides their shame.

Final act of grace, the culmination of that grace that was with God from the start of creation.

Matthew 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Matthew 27:50-51


50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

Temple curtain torn in two, we can now walk with God like Adam and Eve did. Full access to the Father.

We also have new garments

Isaiah 61:10
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Amazing Grace that saves a wretch like me.
Amazing Grace that was in place when God said "Let us make man in our image"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and not one person has or stated this in over 50,000 posts...

you must be reading a different chat room than the rest of us,

anyone who teaches works are required to be saved (or maintain salvation) says otherwise, and n (PeterJens) specifically stated, the cross is not enough, and aloof people agreed with hm.

 

[preacher4truth]

A person's love grows cold is a statement about the times Jesus is describing, whether it be 70 AD or the end times I do not want to get into that part of it.

The apostle's were to endure the hateful attempts of others to deceive them, since the passage also speaks about false teachers.

Jesus no where in the whole talk mentions eternal salvation.

If you look at Mark 13 a parallel passage you will see that it states "no flesh will be saved"

Therefore the promise is, if they endure, all these terrible things that will happen, that they will be delivered from physical death.

Capisci?

Context NAILED!

 

[Stephen63]

You nailed it: they are your old standards, but they aren't biblical standards, in fact it is another gospel altogether.

However, I will still count you as a friend. You can count me whatever you need to, I'll stand on the Gospel.

Jeremiah 6​

16Thus says the LORD, “Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths,
Where the good way is, and walk in it;
And you will find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17“And I set watchmen over you, saying,
‘Listen to the sound of the trumpet!’
But they said, ‘We will not listen.’ 18“Therefore hear, O nations,
And know, O congregation, what is among them. 19“Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people,
The fruit of their plans,
Because they have not listened to My words,
And as for My law, they have rejected it also.

The old paths of many have been replaced by delusion.

[video=youtube;3vmTkXNpwzs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmTkXNpwzs[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

its a shame really....

it s exactly how th is enemy planned it, it will Be his greatest victory,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its intersting when we think about grace.
Today I think a lot of people think that grace appeared with Jesus and when he died it was that grace that saved a wretch like me. Now I am not saying that is wrong. But I sometimes wonder and think that some feel grace is as a result and started when Jesus "Said it is finished" (BTW those words shudder and pierce my heart)

To me the grace of God manifested the minute Adam and Eve ballsed it up.

God could have wiped them out, said I made a mistake (of course he doesn't make mistakes). But no we find after they sinned

Genesis 3:9


9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”


Genesis 3:10-12


10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”


Genesis 3:14-15


14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Genesis 3:21


21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

So we know that God knew what Adam and Eve had done.
First act of grace, he calls out "Where are you? He is searching out after them.

Adam responds "Its her fault" He does not hold his hands up and say "It's my fault" Blind to their own sin.
Second act of grace he knows they have been deceived yet will not admit and he reveals his solution to the problem.

Jesus is the solution, we find this in verses 14-15

3rd act of grace.

God clothes them. No longer naked but clothed with garments, that hides their shame.

Final act of grace, the culmination of that grace that was with God from the start of creation.

Matthew 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Matthew 27:50-51


50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

Temple curtain torn in two, we can now walk with God like Adam and Eve did. Full access to the Father.

We also have new garments

Isaiah 61:10
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Amazing Grace that saves a wretch like me.
Amazing Grace that was in place when God said "Let us make man in our image"

amen, hs man gets it, grace started the moment man first sinned.

 

[Ariel82]

excepting when you have to OBEY scripture as Paul taught regarding the Corinthians

that's in my Bible anyway

maybe we should pay more attention to a time for everything

and maybe do more CONTENDING but for what the Bible teaches, not NAR, WOF and like minded heresies

I am all for contending for what Jesus teaches instead of against the various heresies such as WOF, NAR, ETC.

It gets tricky when people claim that Jesus teaches things He did not. Part of why He sent Paul and His letters to straighten out the mess.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

one last try since i was ignored twice...

:REPOST:

John Chapter 6


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



Ephesians Chapter 2


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Galatians Chapter 5


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


_______________________________________



Ecclesiastes 7:20

“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”

Romans 3:21-27

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

one last try since i was ignored twice...

:REPOST:

John Chapter 6


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



Ephesians Chapter 2


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Galatians Chapter 5


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


_______________________________________



Ecclesiastes 7:20

“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”

Romans 3:21-27

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

you planted the seed, now let God water it and see if anything sprouts,

 

[Meggido]

How can you be righteous if you still sin?

What part of positional Righteousness as a free gift with salvation do you not understand?

Romans 5.16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Col 3.9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead

2 Corinthians 5.21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Are you really this unlearned when it comes to positional righteousness or are you just so bound in sin-consciousness you cannot see your way out...

You wallow in mud but claim to be clean....your knowledge of the very eternal security and grace you boast of having and have been given is lost on you, because you love your old man more than the new man...this is being double minded...this is being tossed to and fro...this is never burying old man with Christ and carrying him around with you like a woobie blanket, because you will not give him up.....and then you have the audacity to try to preach to others about eternal security and grace and never have let either one of them truly set you free...

Stop perverting and frustrating the grace of God, because you cannot take the nearly to good to be true good news, that you are given a position of righteousness at conversion, just as the above verses tell you....

 

[UnderGrace]

You do not have one scripture that teaches what you propose that does not contradict every other scripture that says the opposite.

So to prove your point you must first explain away many many scriptures... Here are just a few and I could post many many more.

"He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."-II Tim. 1:12. "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost."-Heb. 7:25.

"Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling." Jude 24.

"Who are kept by the power of God; through faith unto salvation."-I Pet 1:5.

okay I am ready....

IF you could only understand it, I'd explain why eternal security is NOT secure to ANY believer and why Loss of Salvation IS VERY SECURE to ANY BELIEVER.

But I believe it would not be understood.

 

[UnderGrace]

Um....out of context?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

How can you be righteous if you still sin?

What part of positional Righteousness as a free gift with salvation do you not understand?

Romans 5.16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Col 3.9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead

2 Corinthians 5.21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Are you really this unlearned when it comes to positional righteousness or are you just so bound in sin-consciousness you cannot see your way out...

You wallow in mud but claim to be clean....your knowledge of the very eternal security and grace you boast of having and have been given is lost on you, because you love your old man more than the new man...this is being double minded...this is being tossed to and fro...this is never burying old man with Christ and carrying him around with you like a woobie blanket, because you will not give him up.....and then you have the audacity to try to preach to others about eternal security and grace and never have let either one of them truly set you free...

Stop perverting and frustrating the grace of God, because you cannot take the nearly to good to be true good news, that you are given a position of righteousness at conversion, just as the above verses tell you....

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi everyone...I was just saying in another thread, yes it`s good that we all debate, that`s how many things get straightened out, but to be honest, do the people who get very personal with each other when the name calling starts, or even some times cuss words that are thrown out once in a while, dressed up but no different from the worldly cussing, men and women who are representing our Lord, walking walking with the Holy Spirit, does one ever stop and realize how grieved the Holy Spirit must feel, are we not warned that we must not quench the Holy Spirit, it`s becoming heart breaking to see this, should we not behave like children of God in all manners, let`s all debate the Holy Word of God, lets answer each others differences, some times as i feel as if our Lord our beautiful Savior is getting pulled to pieces, it`s horrible...God...Please bless us ALL in your name Father, in Jesus name Amen...Love to you all my Brothers & Sisters...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What part of positional Righteousness as a free gift with salvation do you not understand?

i understand it completely, but that is not what she is talking about, she is talking about being righteouss enough to earn eternal life.

Are you really this unlearned when it comes to positional righteousness or are you just so bound in sin-consciousness you cannot see your way out...

you babbling again, and proving you have no idea what I believe,

You

wallow in mud but claim to be clean....your knowledge of the very eternal security and grace you boast of having and have been given is lost on you, because you love your old man more than the new man...this is being double minded...this is being tossed to and fro...this is never burying old man with Christ and carrying him around with you like a woobie blanket, because you will not give him up.....and then you have the audacity to try to preach to others about eternal security and grace and never have let either one of them truly set you free...

I wallow in mud? Lol dude do you listen to yourself,

so since i admit admit I am not perfect and can not live up to Gods standard of righteousness, which would be required for me to maintain my own salvation, I wallow in mud,

lol you you should have left me on ignore.

Stop perverting and frustrating the grace of God, because you cannot take the nearly to good to be true good news, that you are given a position of righteousness at conversion, just as the above verses tell you....

Stop assuming you know what I believe, stop telling me what to believe when you do not know, and stop trying to think you know it all,

i am not frustrating the grace of God, people who try to earn it or maintain it by works are,

the grace of God is what makes me righteous, and I walk in it out of appreciation and faith God will it lead me astray, and God has been faithful every time I follow him, and every time I try to walk apart from that grace and his leading I fall in my face, and know it and confess it, but I will never do it to earn or maintain my salvation. If that is what you want to do or support, that's on you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not have one scripture that teaches what you propose that does not contradict every other scripture that says the opposite.

So to prove your point you must first explain away many many scriptures... Here are just a few and I could post many many more.

"He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."-II Tim. 1:12. "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost."-Heb. 7:25.

"Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling." Jude 24.

"Who are kept by the power of God; through faith unto salvation."-I Pet 1:5.

okay I am ready....

Dont mind him I made him angry awhile back, he has been trying to discredit me ever since, and all he does is keep trying to tell me things I already know and believe, yet he says I do not believe or know them. Just like he did right here,

but yes, context, that is where he missed it,,

 

[Meggido]

Um....out of context?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

How can you be righteous if you still sin?

How is this out of context....gonna rip this out of your Bible to, because its not for us today like you did with another passage a few posts ago....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is this out of context....gonna rip this out of your Bible to, because its not for us today like you did with another passage a few posts ago....

The context is being righteous enough to be saved. Which is what the discussion was about,

stop trying so hard, your making yourself look bad.

 

[stonesoffire]

Wait.

YOU say you do works because you love God.
Do you not say that?

Well, I certainly DO love God.
I do works to keep Him happy.

Jesus said I was to do certain things.
Like Love my neighbor.

I guess that's a bad word "work" to you.

It's a work to me too.
But to me "work" is not a bad word.

If you like, you could give it a different name.
The Church is changing and becoming of no flavor and of no substance.
Call it what you will....
A rose by any other name...

I'm sure God will be happy to hear that you preach to new Christians that works are NOT necessary.

Let's all just sit back and do nothing.


Time for another musical interlude...


[video=youtube;1jjcxFGEysE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjcxFGEysE[/video]

"Well, I certainly DO love God.
I do works to keep Him happy."

If I am the only one who sees just how wrong this statement is, I will be disappointed.

~Heb 11:6　 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.　

 

[Locutus]

I'm still werking on this...

 

[UnderGrace]

I saw it and really and did not know what was meant by it. Happiness an attribute of God...who knew?

God does not need us to keep Him happy.

Faith pleases God, Amen, because in faith we believe what He says is true.
Works are the outpouring of God's love within us.....because He loves us not because we have to keep Him happy. LOL

"Well, I certainly DO love God.
I do works to keep Him happy."

If I am the only one who sees just how wrong this statement is, I will be disappointed.

~Heb 11:6　 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.