The book of Hebrews

[followjesus]

well, it looks to me like you're missing the point - which is not at all about "having already attained it" - it's about there being a temporal disconnect between the heavenly reality and the transitory earthly experience.

this isn't "one verse theology" -- i've already given you at least four passages, Hebrews 1:2-3, 2:7-8, 13:8 and 10:14.

here are some more for you:

Ephesians 2:6-7 plainly says that we are ((past tense)) raised up with Christ and ((present tense)) seated with Him in heavenly places

Romans chapter 6 at least a dozen times says we "have died" ((quite expressly past tense)) with Him already, therefore, act like it ((present & future tense))

1 Corinthians 5:7 admonishes those believers to "get rid of the old leaven" so that they may be made ((future tense)) into a new lump "as (they) really are" ((present tense))

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 does not mince words in saying that "we no longer regard anyone according to the flesh, though we have known Christ after the flesh, we regard Him thus no longer" and that "therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; the old things are passed away and all things are made new"

Revelations 13:8 names Christ "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" -- but was He crucified in Genesis chapter 1?

Ephesians 1:4 says we were "chosen in Him before the foundation of the world" -- i.e. before the garden, before the fall, before He was manifest in the flesh.

Jesus declares that "to God, all are alive" in both Mark 12:27 and Luke 20:38 without denying the existence of death​

these are just a handful from the top of my head.

and this, which is sometimes called 'the prophetic voice' is not at all a new thing, and not confined to the new testament. over and over and over again, throughout the books of the prophets, they speak by the Spirit about future events as though they are already accomplished. God says of Himself that He "declares the end from the beginning" ((Isaiah 46:10))

what i am trying to express to you is by no means built on one isolated verse. but apart from a certain reading of Hebrews 2:18 that completely ignores Hebrews 2:1-9, where do you get the interpretation that omniscient, omnipotent God "didn't understand how humans feel" and so it was "necessary for Him to experience human emotions when they are tempted" in order for the One who created the hearts of men to have proper compassion on them?

going back to 2 Corinthians 5, the answer is again written in verses 18-19:

Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
​

what was being accomplished in Christ?
it is not that God was reconciling Himself to the world; He was reconciling the world to Himself. Christ, in becoming flesh and "like His brethren" in every way, is demonstrating the true nature of what the high priesthood of Aaron was only a type of. He is not doing this for His own sake, as though He was previously incapable of succoring us - it is for our sake, so that the extent of His grace is revealed through His finished work.

very simply & plainly, God did not "become capable" of sympathizing with man by becoming flesh. rather, by doing this He revealed His capability to show us perfect mercy and faithfulness. Christ does not represent "the evolution" of God towards us; He is the revealing of God to us ((which, again is plain from the text: Hebrews 1:1-3, God has spoken to us now through The Son, not 'God has comprehended us now by The Son')). this is what all of scripture is: revealing God to mankind, and this is eternal life: to know Him. His words are life because they are the transmission of the knowledge of Him, and this is His life on earth also, the demonstration and transmission of the knowledge of Him to us, so that we may gain what we lack -- not that God lacks anything, nor ever needs to gain something.

No one said God lacks anything lol its impossible for me to continue this argument, you are seeing things Im not saying and then arguing me as if i have said them. never said God was not capable. His plan from the beginning was to Send Jesus His Only Begotten to do all He did, One of His duties was to experience temoptation SO THAT He can stregthen us to overcome it. period, thats what you began this on. God in the Ot


At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. 7The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

the whole law of moses is like this. Your son or daughter dishonors you they must surely be put to death.

I the Lord am Holy, you must purge the sin from among you show them no pity, no mercy, they surely must be put to death"


Here are Just some of the command of God death sentances instant death no repentance allowed by command of Our Holy God not able to abide with sin

stoned to death

Intercourse between a man and his mother, Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother)., Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law,Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage, Intercourse between two men, Bestiality,Cursing the name of God in God's name.,Idol Worship,Giving one's progeny to Molech (child sacrifice),Necromantic Sorcery,Pythonic Sorcery,Attempting to convince another to worship idols,Instigating a community to worship idols,Witchcraft,Violating the Sabbath,Cursing one's own parent,A stubborn and rebellious son."


Some crimes commanded by God that the sinner be burned to death.


The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery,Intercourse between a man and his daughter,Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter),Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother,Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother."


Beheading .


Unlawful premeditated murder,Being a member of a city that has gone astray.


strangulation...Committing adultery with another man's wife, when it doesn't fall under the above criteria,Wounding one's own parent,Kidnapping another Israelite,Prophesying falsely,Prophesying in the name of other deities."

Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee. <<<< that is all before Jesus came.


Jesus Comes and bases Gods Law this way

john 8"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Jesus answer

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. direct violation of the Law of Moses.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

what do you suppose changed How Jesus acted ? God Has not changed in any way, He still does not realte to sin whatsoever. the High priest However, He has been through the temotation and knows its powr over the flesh, personally, hes been " touched by our infirmities and weaknesses, God cannot be , you see clearly there is a gigantic change. its not because God changed its found in the understanding that Jesus Has a kinship with us. and God commited all things into His Hands, Like He did with adam in the beginning, and satan got the control because adam followed His word. Jesus faced that fallen flesh weakness and never yeilded to temptation, experienced the same pull it has to us, but He overcame and walked Holy because He is who He said He is.

there is more Mercy Now, we are allowed to repent Now because Jesus Knows personally, He felt it, He relates now. this makes Him a perfect High priest thats the subject. you came into this looking for something to argue about and jumped off subject. because you saw my wording and assumed all these other things that you are saying i "really meant"

the gospel is full of Grace and truth because Jesus is One of Us, sent By God, Gods vehicle to the World, His only connection to sinners is Jesus, His only connection to those of us who have sinned. is Jesus who became a man like us, carried our imperfections to the cross, and then conquered death because He did not once sin even tho He faced every struggle we face. that is what makes Him this High priest we are ...well were looking at in Hebrews before this ridiculous thing that goes on almost every time Here.

God Knows all things, He had no place in creating Sin, temptation or death. satan took His words to adam and eve, and twisted those words to create death, through sin, through temotation all works of satan. Im sorry But God doesnt sympathize or " Understand" evil He crushes and destroys it.

Jesus came to those sinners to call them to repentance and Life everlasting. and the process is being explained there in Hebrews, concerning High priest, and what He did Being High priest. its all Gods Plan, was always, but that doesnt mean that there isnt a process and time for one thing and then another and another.


i think possibly people think God is meremy " Predicting" what will Happen or He knows what well do. ..... things Haoppen Because God spoke it beforehand. He Knows Because His words are creation. satan Knew that its why He went for what God had said in eden and attacked and Killed man with it by twisting it. God doesnt Just Know whats gonna happen, His words determine what is coming. those words can also be used against a person when they are twisted and disbelieved Like He did in the beginning and does now God doesnt relate to, did not cause, or create sin, temoptation or death thats the work of the devil Jesus came to destroy. so Yes, Jesus was needed to actually face and experience temptation, Because God has never been tempted.

 

[posthuman]

come to the realization that we dont need a speacial " Lens" in which to veiw Gods Eternal Word.

“How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
said Nicodemus, taking Christ's words at face value, in the simplest, plainest interpretation one could find. you know, he was wrong.

two men also waled along the road to Emmaus, thinking they knew the scripture: at face value, it seemed quite comprehensible. but a third walked with them, and starting from Moses and the prophets, opened it up to them, and their hearts burned within them.

 

[beta]

do you also think God was in need of practical experience?

It seems that God Himself thought He should have practical experience...through His Son ! and His Son was willing to go through that experience for His Father as He did for us ...so we can all become ONE !

 

[posthuman]

never said God was not capable.

what exactly is this then

God had never driven the flesh of man until Jesus came. God created the car but until He drove the broken car,( flesh) He was not able to soccour the helpless.

 

[followjesus]

((simplest?))

but amen to the rest, and there you've stated post's "qualifications"

i believe what is written, all of it, and have been praying daily for understanding for almost 30 years, believing what is written, that God "giveth it liberally"

believing all of it, i believe that an understanding which leads to contradiction of scripture is in error. so i believe and understand that an understanding that makes unchanging, omnipotent, omniscient God, Creator of time itself and the human heart itself, unable at some point in time to properly succor man, unable at some point in time to know the heart of man, and God then changing in time to overcome His own inadequacies, is an incorrect understanding.

trying to help you see that too, mate, is all

oits all good buddy, all i was doing was following Hebrews and making the scriptures available for discussion, was originally Hoping that someone might have some insight into the subjkect based on the scriptures. No worries Just because were having a disagreement about How i worded something, doesnt need to be any left over issues. Personally I ve actully been Hit with rocks in a muslim community in africe simply for carrying a bible, so arguments sort of roll off me after about 4 seconds. i forget others arent that way i hope you are. Let me say this and then we can call it good


I am not now nor have i ever thought God isnt omnipitent, Im saying part of His all Knowing plan after we fell, was to reconcile us to Himself. He didnt lift sinners to Him, He sent Jesus to us. and through Jesus and His being we are then lifted up. part of that Process <<<< im talking process of Gods Unfolding Plan that was already set long before through His wisdom.....part of the process was to send Jesus to face temptation in order to Know its touch, God never Knew the TOUCH of temptation until Jesus.


if your gosl is to Help me understand that God doesnt need Help or He is all Knowing, im already there. i think maybe its the wording there People say things differently and perceive those words differently. its all good though man No harm no foul. Im gonna go shoot some billiards wit My pops Have a good one, God bless

 

[posthuman]

It seems that God Himself thought He should have practical experience...through His Son ! and His Son was willing to go through that experience for His Father as He did for us ...so we can all become ONE !

it seems He knew that we needed to experience Him, but "He knew what was in man" is said of Christ in John 2:24-25, and YHWH declares it of Himself in Jeremiah 17:10. He never lacked anything; God is never not God

remember all the times in the wilderness God warned Moses not to let the people come near His glory & His being, or He would destroy them in His wrath?
but the exact representation of His being became our intercession!! The very radiance of His glory stands in the gap! From everlasting to everlasting, He is our All-In-All

 

[followjesus]

what exactly is this then

a reference to this

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ( which leads us to this) 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.17Wherefore in all things it behoved him ( was necassary for Him)to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.( concluded by this >>> 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


"Because what i actually said there was ( and this is my point about grabbing just a certain piece)

"God had never driven the flesh of man until Jesus came. God created the car but until He drove the broken car,( flesh) He was not able to soccour the helpless. He Knew the path, Knew the issue, But the High priest is the One who fixed the broken car, and drove it Home safely following the creators path. "


do you now see what im saying? you are pulling a small piece of what i was actually saying and then attempting to prove what im saying with only a small peice of it. which was actually an analogy answering to nehemiahs analogy yet you are showing just this



"God had never driven the flesh of man until Jesus came. God created the car but until He drove the broken car,( flesh) He was not able to soccour the helpless. "


and Highlighting half of a full sentance which is Just part of the actual context of what i was saying. its the same thing you did earlier. its the same thing people do with scripture. you apparently are misin whats being said in favor of a part of whats being said that needs to be seen otherwise we can all do that by pluckin half a statement out, and omitting the context of what the person is actually saying.


There is a reason God sent Jesus to do the things the hebrews are explaining here, Jesus suffering temptation is the very thing that makes Him able to succour us in them. you are attempting to say that im saying God is not able, when actually Im talking right along side the scriptures saying this

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

so until Jesus did this, there was no reconciliation, there was no Help for us. thats why the difference in the Law and Gospel, One lacked the High priesthood Of Jesus, son of God, Son of Man our mediator. its was always Gods doing His plan what Jesus did was of God. context matters if i wanted i could go find a sentance from o=about anyone on this site and Just show that one sentance, and then begin a Huge debate and argument when all i would really be doing is taking it out of its context for the purpose of " correcting" something they were never actually saying even though hey this half a sentance seems like they were.


thats the issue with this place it happens daily and leads to multiple ridiculous arguments. same thing that the gog does to scripture they will pluck one verse from its context and then argue against whats actually being said. Like

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: "


and will stand on that and create an entire doctrine against doing the good works and actually label obedience and doing the works somehow self salvation when a verse later


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


and then when they see this in the same Book.....

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."



because its all by Grace, and our deeds have no impact. then everything is misconstrued and whats actually said, never is accepted based on One sentance plucked from its entirety which is actually the message being conveyed

 

[followjesus]

it seems He knew that we needed to experience Him, but "He knew what was in man" is said of Christ in John 2:24-25, and YHWH declares it of Himself in Jeremiah 17:10. He never lacked anything; God is never not God

remember all the times in the wilderness God warned Moses not to let the people come near His glory & His being, or He would destroy them in His wrath?
but the exact representation of His being became our intercession!! The very radiance of His glory stands in the gap! From everlasting to everlasting, He is our All-In-All

Agreed !
remember all the times in the wilderness God warned Moses not to let the people come near His glory & His being, or He would destroy them in His wrath? <<<<<< what changed? that God sent Jesus to come near to those he would destroy?

No one on this thrread has said God was ever not God.

 

[followjesus]

Agreed !
remember all the times in the wilderness God warned Moses not to let the people come near His glory & His being, or He would destroy them in His wrath? <<<<<< what changed? that God sent Jesus to come near to those he would destroy?

No one on this thrread has said God was ever not God.

Hebrews 2

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


Behoved =past tense: behoved

• it is a duty or responsibility for someone to do something; it is incumbent on.
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]be incumbent on, be obligatory for, be required of, be expected of, be appropriate for[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  • it is appropriate or suitable; it befits.
    
    
    The High priest
    
    Hebrews 5:1 -4 for
    every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. "
    
    
    do you see now what im saying? Jesus to be High priest, as Was Gods plan from His wisdom Had to be touched with our weaknesses, God has not been touched By them ever.
  
  
  
  

 

[followjesus]

“How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
said Nicodemus, taking Christ's words at face value, in the simplest, plainest interpretation one could find. you know, he was wrong.

two men also waled along the road to Emmaus, thinking they knew the scripture: at face value, it seemed quite comprehensible. but a third walked with them, and starting from Moses and the prophets, opened it up to them, and their hearts burned within them.

agreed but take a look at the context again


The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


John 6:62-63 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."


this too connects to the things in Hebrews.


1:1-2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds " He spoke creation forth, it came because He said it. and what does peter say a few verses after Jesus says " the words that I speak to you are sopirit and Life?

v 68-69 "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.


Hebrews is an extension or deeper understanding of the things in the Gospel, as are the epistles the words of Jesus is where the spirit, eternal Life and all truth is founded. because God has given all things to Him, by the rites of an heir. an heir is always the firstborn of the Father. Just Like God spoke the first testament and things became immutable, Jesus spoke the new testament and things Became immutable.

 

[followjesus]

So, chapter 8, they have been driving Home the superiority of Jesus, His Humanity of neccasaty and also the superiority of His priesthood. So much they have spent on Melchezidek, the priest Who met abraham after the battle of the Nine Kings which was touched on in Both chapter 7 of Hebrews and then the genesis account of what they were referring to. this mysterious priest who came before the Law of Moses was ever given,who brought forth Bread and Wine and blessed abraham and also God Most High, after He rescued Lot. This King of Peace, King of righteousness, the priest of God Most High ,who has no geneology, Nor acount of His death, nor descendants mentioned in the Bible.


The writers Have been making much importance of this New High order of priesthood, and connecting it directly to Jesus and the Things Jesus has done for us to become the perfect High Priest both Merciful, and faithful, Having full authority. they then begin in capter 8, a brief summary of this and they begin to barely touch upon the change of the covenant. remember they have established that a priesthood change, neccesitates a changing of the Law the priest presides over, and have established that God spoke first through the prophets to the fathers of Israel. and in the last times Has spoken to us By His Son Jesus Christ.


Hebrews 8


"Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.


For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


(clearly Here they begin explaining that the Law and the first order of things, the patterns that were so strictly given to make the things in the Law according to the pattern God showed Moses on the Mount, are a copy of the true things in Heaven. that even the ministry of the Law, was a pattern for the ministry of Jesus and not the actual things, but a foreshadow to begin teaching man of the heavenly things that would Come in Christ Jesus. also this last verse there says something that Has been seen in other places Jesus being the mediator of a better testament)


"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


( alot of people do not like the idea that the first covenant made in the desert after deliverance from captivity in egypt , the Law given through Moses, is Not to be our authority but this makes it quite clear a quote Here from Jeremiah 31:-34 of which Jeremiah has much more to say i would suggest reading the whole 31st chapter to grasp the things the writers are saying not only Here but as the Book progresses this is the Quote the writers Use beginning above and continued below)

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (<<< this is where you need to read the whole chapter 31 of jeremiah) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."




which concludes chapter 8, doesnt conclude what they are saying here , but just the beginning of it, in a pretty substantial and clear statement there. making it hard to then deny that we are Not under an entirely new covenant seperate from that of the 5 books of Moses. A covenant Mediated By Moses specifically to the hebrews Led from Egypt By Moses. also a pattern of Jesus leading us into a "promised Land", but a much Greater promise, that of eternal Life, rather than a land of milk and Honey with long years and abundant Crops on earth as were the promises then.


its really important for us as we read this to not seperate this from all they have already made so clear, the many times they have said that the disobedience of those in the first, is specifically for our example to Know and learn from that they were destroyed for thier constant rebellion, and also not seperate this from what is to come in the concluding chapters of this book. Bit to take all of it equally into our hearts and minds, prayerfully.


otherwise we will miss the message of hebrews that is so valuable to bring us to life in the things of God, in Christ Jesus. Notice we are Not void of a Law, because the true Law is to be written on the inward parts, the mind and the heart of man. though this is a promise to israel and Judah, we understand that Jesus sent His disciples to the whole world with His teachings and sacrifice (Matthew 28:18-20,) and we remember the very first statements in this Book regarding the Words of Jesus.




To follow this you will have to go back to page 2 of this thread and find chapter 7 , the whole book of Hebrews is here. chapter by chapter to help make sense of it. again, this is a share that i have not tried before, but wanted to share the book entirely and Just leave some things that I myself see pretty clearly, Im positive there is alot more to learn, I was Hoping to have a thread where we could discuss the scriptures in Hebrews and find some deeper insights and things. Because many find Hebrews hard to follow and others attempt to exclude its value and inclusion to Christians , you will notice it is not preaching the first covenant but clearly establishing the change.


Chapter 9 is really where you see that the law, is a pattern for us to help understand the fullness of the Gospel. though we are not under that first testament, it was always speaking of the things to come in Jesus Christ and His testament. it will show How important His words are that they are indeed the eternal Law as much as Moses words, were the Law of the first covenant. it begins further telling of the heavenly things that were patterned in the law and manifest in Christ, Gives yet another very important establishment of His Blood. It begins speaking of the heavenly things that we are bound for that are true and eternal. and again will build upon the things they have been saying to us in this Great, and deep Book ,That shows us the details of the value of the things of old for us to understand More clearly the new things given to us, and the things so glorious ahead.


God bless.

 

[followjesus]

Hebrews 9:1-10

again they begin reffering back to the first order, the things established in the Law which if you noticed they Have been consistantly doing from the earlier chapters of Hebrews.

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

( if you have stidied zechariah, and revelation much you will notice this is a patter of what is sen in Heaven around Gods Throne even the ark ofthe covenant is seen in Heaven in the book of revelation they are beginning to reveal that the things in the Law, were a pre pattern of what is in Heaven, the true things of Which Jesus is High priest. which clearly they were not yet going into in this letter, and were revealed further in the revelation of Jesus Christ. think Golden censor, atonement, High priest, tabernacle, golden candlestick, wiged cherebim over the mercy seat, and then study the visions of the prophets when they see Gods throne including revelation and remember the glory of God met with them above the mercy seat in days of the earthly tabernacle and High priest in aarons order exodus 25-29 are some of the references they are looking back to here)

6Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: ( Just after Jesus death the temple at jerusalem was destroyed and Has never been rebuilt) 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

Notice there is no reference to the ten commandments here whatsoever but of the ceremonial things that "sanctified" the priests these are always what paul brings up also. the conclusion of this chapter to come, you already can see the pattern of the Law, fulfilled in the Coming of Jesus Christ and made true and manifest through Himself.

 

[followjesus]

chapter 9 concluded

alot Here, remember this is a continuation of whats being said even as far Back as How far they went to establish the things leading us here. the priesthood of Jesus, the example of the Law, the first and new covenants, the mediation of the new By Jesus....


"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

(Some would argue the "dead works" have nothing to do with sin, yet that is the very purpose of the sprinkling of the Blood in both covenants directly for the purging of Sins. while this also speaks of those ceremonial rules in the first priesthood for sanctification of priests, the blood always atones for sins. the idea Here is that the sins behind us, we need not be guilty in conscience, and the sins ahead already have the sacrifice available, repentance from sins current is not at all excluded, nor the sorros of conscience for the current is excluded the sacrifice of Jesus blood is eternal, we still need to repent and turn to Him, still need to confess Just as they did in the Law times remembering it is a model for the new, the difference is the priest is already remaining in the viel beside God the sacrifice is made Once for all the blood is redemption, repentance not omitted as we see a bit later please dont take this to mean we should not recognize the sins we walk in daily you will see this clearly later)


15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. ( the sins behind us according to the Law are already gone, the ones we continue in, need repentance so that the Blood can cleanse them away Just as in the Law One sacrifice all time, reoentance needed for ongoing sin which again you will see later and have already seen a few times in this book.

This next part is of great importance and i will offer the scriptures reffered to to help make this more clear. when you read this think "will and testament" Like we do Now days with our will.

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; andwithout shedding of blood is no remission.

(Do you see How Moses spoke the Law FIRST, and then shed the Blood? Jesus spoke the new testament, and THEN shed His blood to make His testament of Force. this is really oimportant to understand after this concludes i will give the scriptures in the law reffered to Here. Do you also understand that a testament Means nothing while the testator is alive? but when a person dies, His will and testament then Goes into legality, and is of force. until His death, His testament is Just on paper, But when He dies all His Words become the rule of the Law for His possessions any condition the testator Has made, is final. also notice the Blood is what brought remission of the first testament signed by the blood of animals because it was always to be temporary only a pattern of the reality until Jesus came).

23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Here again we see the eternal Nature of His sacrifice, but please wait before you conclude this matter in your Mind thinking sin is no Longer of consequence until the letter Gets there. there are deep things Here deep truths.


the example i was talking about about Moses speaking the Law, and then shedding the Blood remembering all they are saying about How the law is a pattern of the new.

exodus 24:1-8 "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.4And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.

6And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words."


Do you see what being said to us concerning Jesus words ( the mediator of the covenant) and the shedding of His blood? some will argue that "pre cross" things He said arent for us, the writers Here are establishing that what He spoke, is the same as the Law was in the Old covenant. when He shed His blood, it remitted the first testament, and it put His into effect. the sins of the Law remitted, and the Gospel set into eternal Authority. its really very evident, dont let anyone tell you that His Words do not Have authority. this also answers those who will argue "Look Jesus said the Law would not be abolished until all things were finished." trying to explain He was teaching the Mosaic Law. Because until He died, it was the Law over israel. when He shed Hid blood all of His words became eternal as is His Blood. His words are the Life of the Covenant.

thers alot more Here, but the main thing i wanted to sort of point out Here in the scriptures, is what they are saying about His testement and when it became of effect. you now can reflect on the many things Jesus said about His words being " eternal" being spirit and Life" being freedom from Sin" being eternal Life" and understand that the shedding of His blood, didnt erase them, it made them of full authority forever His words outline the eternal Covenant we need those, you can also remember His words saying " this Gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come."

there is a real movement in the world trying to convince that its Not about the Words of Jesus, it is we need those as much as the Cross. abide in them Keep them in you there is Power in them.


God bless

 

[followjesus]

Hebrews 10: 1-18 ( sacrifice Once for all)


"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.


( psalm 40:6-10...Notice How the psalms of David are quoted so often, this should make us understand that david was among other things a prophet who spoke many things about Christ as peter tells us in acts 2:29-30 which many miss)

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.


Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."


what a wonderful thing we are seeing Here unfolding based on the things already spoken in this book about His priesthood, His sacrifice, the eternal Nature of His offering in these things we find strength and remission of the things we have all done wrong. The sacrifice of Jesus Body for Our sins is a powerful thing that is meant to work in us to cleanse our consciences and remove from doctrine all sacrifices established prior. those sacrifices of spotless animals, were helpful to the people because God had said to them " make these sacrifices and i will forgive your sins. the sacrifices Had no power, the power was in what God had said about them. Being only a shadow a foretelling example of the things Christ would do in His coming, they were a constant reminder of Gods willingness to forgive, and also a reminder of the peoples sins because they were continually offered even atonement once every year.


This should have made them see That a new thing was to come, but they had Not the fulfillment of these things to understand as we do Have and understand Now. so when we look at the sacrificail Laws in leviticus and elsewhere in the Law of Moses, we understand that those things speak of Christ, they offer understanding because they were always speaking of His sacrifice to comeall along.


Our consciences can Be clean for Our sins according to Our pasts, wich is what had seperated us from God, according to the Mosaic Law that condemned the sinner to death, we dont have to worry anymore about making a continual sin offering because Our Great High Priest Has taken care of that Once for all in sacrificing His own self, sprinkling His own Blood, and entering into the true holiest of all in Heaven behind the veil where He is seated forever at the right Hand of God, ever interceding For us as the shadows teach us in the Old things of the Mosaic Law and its priesthood of the order of aaron and His Sons.


Does this mean to us, that if i go tell Lies today or tomorrow I should not recognize what ive done to be sin? or i should never let My sin into My recognition just to act as if i havent sinned and confess im righteous? No. thats Not what this is saying, because of whats already been established, and also what is yet to be seen in the conclusion of this chapter. remember that One thing is not meant to exclude the others but all of these things work together to bring us to God. we do Have an eternal Sacrifice for Our sins He has already shed this powerful eternal Blood we are reading of. this means that we have no need to daily, and then once a year make a sacrifice of blood in order to purge our conscience from sin, thats already been established.


Our past sins have been remitted, those according to the Law, Our Ongoing sins also already sacrificed for as well, but ongoing sin is not acceptable in Christ. when we sin, we are called to repent of the sin, in earnest, and then we are free to ask forgiveness because the sacrifice is already made that will indeed cleanse the conscience of the sin i Know I have done. repentance is essential in this, Godly sorrow is essential Lest we trample down the Blood of Gods Only Son and forget the cost to our Lord which we see ahead and has already been made fairly clear. His sacrifice is not a free pass to Live to my will, it is a principle that reconciles us to Gods presence where as before all sinners were already seperated from His intimate presence.


reconcile means there was a prior relationship that was broken, and the mediator is the One who comes between 2 seperated parties and speaking for Both to work reconciliation. Jesus the mediator, Has done His Job in bringing Man the second party who is responsible for the break, Back to the first Party, God, who has always been reaching for us in order to Love us as He Loves beyond our understanding. Jesus has accomplished the reconciliation for the Break we caused by Our transgression, along with the Hardness of the first covenant. if this does Not Lead us to true repentance and upright Living, it is not that Jesus was insufficient, it is that we Love sin More that We Love the One who suffered and died for our forgiveness and to reconcile us to God by price of His blood shed for us.


People often explain " its a free gift" rather to me, it is the most expensive Gift ever purchased, and it is given freely to us. we cannot displace the cost to Our precious Savior. the shame He bore, the accusations and mockings, the spitting in His face, the beatings and whipping. The public spectacle that was made of Him, the rejection He endured, the Nails driven through His Hands and feet, the pain, the abandonment, the agonizing Hours spent on the cross, the Blood that flowed out from His wounds His Body and Life sacrificed to pay the price of our redemption. salvation was not free, it was the highest price ever paid for you, and for me, given freely to us by Him who paid the high cost.


If this does not win our Hearts and bring alliegance and our own sacrifice not for our sins, but for our Love and adoration for Him we have missed the cross entirely. He did these things to win back Hearts that Had been led away from God by sin, to bring them back, that God may be Our God in truth, that we may Love Jesus in truth through obedience , surrendering ourselves daily to God who made the Way Home through His Son Jesus Christ.


again the conclusion of this chapter will make this beginning complete, and teach us Not to take this lightly, or treat the cost without reverance and obedience.

 

[Billyd]

Hebrews 10: 1-18 ( sacrifice Once for all)


"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.


( psalm 40:6-10...Notice How the psalms of David are quoted so often, this should make us understand that david was among other things a prophet who spoke many things about Christ as peter tells us in acts 2:29-30 which many miss)

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.


Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."


what a wonderful thing we are seeing Here unfolding based on the things already spoken in this book about His priesthood, His sacrifice, the eternal Nature of His offering in these things we find strength and remission of the things we have all done wrong. The sacrifice of Jesus Body for Our sins is a powerful thing that is meant to work in us to cleanse our consciences and remove from doctrine all sacrifices established prior. those sacrifices of spotless animals, were helpful to the people because God had said to them " make these sacrifices and i will forgive your sins. the sacrifices Had no power, the power was in what God had said about them. Being only a shadow a foretelling example of the things Christ would do in His coming, they were a constant reminder of Gods willingness to forgive, and also a reminder of the peoples sins because they were continually offered even atonement once every year.


This should have made them see That a new thing was to come, but they had Not the fulfillment of these things to understand as we do Have and understand Now. so when we look at the sacrificail Laws in leviticus and elsewhere in the Law of Moses, we understand that those things speak of Christ, they offer understanding because they were always speaking of His sacrifice to comeall along.


Our consciences can Be clean for Our sins according to Our pasts, wich is what had seperated us from God, according to the Mosaic Law that condemned the sinner to death, we dont have to worry anymore about making a continual sin offering because Our Great High Priest Has taken care of that Once for all in sacrificing His own self, sprinkling His own Blood, and entering into the true holiest of all in Heaven behind the veil where He is seated forever at the right Hand of God, ever interceding For us as the shadows teach us in the Old things of the Mosaic Law and its priesthood of the order of aaron and His Sons.


Does this mean to us, that if i go tell Lies today or tomorrow I should not recognize what ive done to be sin? or i should never let My sin into My recognition just to act as if i havent sinned and confess im righteous? No. thats Not what this is saying, because of whats already been established, and also what is yet to be seen in the conclusion of this chapter. remember that One thing is not meant to exclude the others but all of these things work together to bring us to God. we do Have an eternal Sacrifice for Our sins He has already shed this powerful eternal Blood we are reading of. this means that we have no need to daily, and then once a year make a sacrifice of blood in order to purge our conscience from sin, thats already been established.


Our past sins have been remitted, those according to the Law, Our Ongoing sins also already sacrificed for as well, but ongoing sin is not acceptable in Christ. when we sin, we are called to repent of the sin, in earnest, and then we are free to ask forgiveness because the sacrifice is already made that will indeed cleanse the conscience of the sin i Know I have done. repentance is essential in this, Godly sorrow is essential Lest we trample down the Blood of Gods Only Son and forget the cost to our Lord which we see ahead and has already been made fairly clear. His sacrifice is not a free pass to Live to my will, it is a principle that reconciles us to Gods presence where as before all sinners were already seperated from His intimate presence.


reconcile means there was a prior relationship that was broken, and the mediator is the One who comes between 2 seperated parties and speaking for Both to work reconciliation. Jesus the mediator, Has done His Job in bringing Man the second party who is responsible for the break, Back to the first Party, God, who has always been reaching for us in order to Love us as He Loves beyond our understanding. Jesus has accomplished the reconciliation for the Break we caused by Our transgression, along with the Hardness of the first covenant. if this does Not Lead us to true repentance and upright Living, it is not that Jesus was insufficient, it is that we Love sin More that We Love the One who suffered and died for our forgiveness and to reconcile us to God by price of His blood shed for us.


People often explain " its a free gift" rather to me, it is the most expensive Gift ever purchased, and it is given freely to us. we cannot displace the cost to Our precious Savior. the shame He bore, the accusations and mockings, the spitting in His face, the beatings and whipping. The public spectacle that was made of Him, the rejection He endured, the Nails driven through His Hands and feet, the pain, the abandonment, the agonizing Hours spent on the cross, the Blood that flowed out from His wounds His Body and Life sacrificed to pay the price of our redemption. salvation was not free, it was the highest price ever paid for you, and for me, given freely to us by Him who paid the high cost.


If this does not win our Hearts and bring alliegance and our own sacrifice not for our sins, but for our Love and adoration for Him we have missed the cross entirely. He did these things to win back Hearts that Had been led away from God by sin, to bring them back, that God may be Our God in truth, that we may Love Jesus in truth through obedience , surrendering ourselves daily to God who made the Way Home through His Son Jesus Christ.


again the conclusion of this chapter will make this beginning complete, and teach us Not to take this lightly, or treat the cost without reverance and obedience.

I don't usually comment on how a member presents his posts, but I am here. IMHO, your highlighting is really trashing your message. Take a little time and go back and read only your red comments. A general rule of thumb. The more you highlight, the more confusion you add to your work.

 

[followjesus]

I don't usually comment on how a member presents his posts, but I am here. IMHO, your highlighting is really trashing your message. Take a little time and go back and read only your red comments. A general rule of thumb. The more you highlight, the more confusion you add to your work.

its not my work, its the Book of Hebrews, Not my message Just some thoughts, If you dont Like the presentation, simply dont read, God Bless you

 

[followjesus]

This would be why no one should seperate, the beginning of chapter 10, from the rest of the Book which the same principle Has already appeared and re appeared multiple times through the Books earlier chapters

Now we see another stern warning Just after all of this seems to be leading us to a guilt free Living, No matter How or what we do, this is Here to complete whats Being said, to work With whats before and guard against the unconditional " we dont need to actually repent Because He already died for our sins " idea.)


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (<<<< are we still thinking unconditional salvation irregardless of what we do? is Grace still simply " unwarranted favour that disqualifies the many warnings? it seems obvious to myself, that the writers Have guarded against this idea pretty repetitively throughout the Book.... they continue)


For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


( what a clear warning Hear directly related to Our actions AFTER the sacrifice and receiving it. if "Grace" is simply unwarranted favor for you and means its all conditionless, why do we see Here that it is possible to despise the spirit of Grace? to count His sacrifice as unholy and why this warning of Judgement regarding our ongoing sin? "willfully " would be to resist the truth abour repentance in order to salvage our sins and claim righteousness thought Gods Word is what defines righteousness. to Know we are sinning and simply continue on guilt free claiming " Jesus died i need not do My own part and respond accordingly through Repentance of these things He suffered to remit from Me. in essence do we see His sacrifice as a removal of the righteousness of Gods Word ? or as salvation and freedom from Sin?

( encouragement and a good instruction comes after this stern and clear warning as again it always does through the Bible)

But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. ( treasures in earth v those in heaven)

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.


For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."




again there is alot Here there is Knowledge, encouragement, warning, instruction, there is Hope and also there is what is meant to work with all of the Hope, to correct Our ways that will be judged in the end God does not save us to continue in sins, but to call us to repentance of sin. i think that alot of people sort of see what they want to see and will simply Not accept the things we dont want to Hear so it leads to taking a small section of the message,, and then thinking the rest is Not applicable. the Source of this thinking is false doctrines Like the gog which actually teaches things such as the conditions made in the New covenant, By the One Who made the covenant arent for you.

they teach you about a special " grace lens" that really is teaching you to only accept what sounds good to you rather then What is the truth of Gods Word. God has always been the same He forgives, He Loves, He rebukes and warns, He encourages and always offers the required counter so that we cant take things as unconditional, Because Yes we Know that God will recompense Our sin come the end if we do not keep the value of His covenant. yet also, we understand who made the provisions and where all the good comes from to begin with. we Know His sacrifice is plenty, but we also Know there is Much for us to walk out and actually do Our part because our hearts were won by Him who suffered to bring us into the things of God. We Know that He has truly done whats neccassary to make us able to approach God with confidence and Be raised to Life in Christ.


We should never discount His forgiving and Merciful Nature, Nor should we ever discount the true Warnings that we need to get right in Our ways because of whats Been done, and Because He has been clear about the eternal Judgement that is most assuredly coming. His part is finished it is more than enough and already resides in those who Have received His spirit His way , Now what will we do Knowing that, and also Knowing the many things that bring the Godly fear that Keeps us on a track to Life eternal? How will we respond to His salvation becomes a part of the equation.

there is Grace that works with truth its Meant to change us from what we were, to what He wills us to Be. God is the same always the Gospel is meant to change us. He will always be opposed utterly to sin, sin will always mean death. repentance is what Jesus came to call sinners into. right Living, right actions conformed after the Son of God and His Gospel of Life and reconciliation. the warnings are true, they are Meant to keep us from falling away from His truth that saves by His Grace.




grace does not discount the other principles, it is meant to bring us to those principles and work salvation through His Word. there is a strange idea that grace is opposed to the rest when its "a cog in the wheel" of salvation, the beginning point that Brings us near, thats meant to Give us all we need to move forward toward Home it continues, as do all of Jesus Words whether we want to Hear we Need to change our ways, and obey His ways doesnt matter, grace is meant to work By true Faith, and Faith is meant to work with His grace.


the next chapter is where the writers begin revealing Faith to the audience. what some refer to as " the hall of faith" it really helps give us an understanding of what real Faith is rather than just a word we say, it Gives great understanding using again examples from the scripture Long past.





God bless

 

[followjesus]

Hebrews 11: 1-19 " Faith"


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."


( already here we have a description of faith and a great example of Faith, Faith is why we Understand that God Made the world by speaking it forth, we Know " there was darkness and No form, God said Let there be light...and Light shined where it did not exist before . ( Genesis 1:2-3) There was no Light, until God said "Let there Be light" this should really give us a clear understanding of the Power of Gods Word creation comes By Gods Word)


"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


(Again Here we have Great clear examples, and then we see what faith Must Believe supporting the examples Given throughout this chapter. Notice abel did something, Because He believed God IS and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Thats what faith Knows, God IS and that He rewards those who Seek Him earnestly. its why these examples connect to the actions of the believer. if Faith were to Just believe God exists, we would fall under James comparison to the devils who shudder, But the belief that God rewards the diligent Seeker is what causes the Work, or "action" of Faith james 2:14-19 )


"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. ( phillipians 3:9)




By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. ( Genesis 12:1-4) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.


( abram believed Gods Words to Him, and He was diligent in seeking the promise through Obedience..By Faith)




"Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. ( Genesis 21:1-2)

(God said it, sarah Believed and received even doubting at first, after ishmael she believed because God said it and she Knew He was faithful, and she bare Isaac though past age she believed based on what God said)

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."


( If they had Not believed Gods Promise, they would Not have Moved in obedience to His Words, His promises are always According to what He says, not what someone else says, But according to Gods Words come the promises. If we begin to believe His Words about things, we will see the truth, and experience True Faith and its Power we cannot say I have Faith and at the same time doubt the things He has said what God Says for us to do, will always Work it cannot fail)


"By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called (Genesis 17:18-21): Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

Notice Here, the figure of Christ by which abraham received the Gospel another foretelling or foreshadow as the writers have made so clear about the things beforehand.
abraham believed Gods Promise that His Promise to be Father of many nations, would come through His seed Isaac, Because that is what God said to Him. abraham Knew that Gods Word would come to pass Just as He had spoken it through Isaac. Therefore by Faith in Gods Word, He Knew Isaac would live through this, So abraham obeyed Gods Word when called upon to sacrifice Isaac Believing the promise God had made. Gods Word WILL always Come to pass Just as He has spoken. Of Only we can grasp this truth and cling to it we will have faith.


Gods Promises are Sure, they are certain and cannot fail to come to pass. He is the Same as When He said " Let there be light and Light shined from darkness. infact you can Look all through the Bible and if God says something, it always Comes to pass as He said it, or will yet come to pass this is the truest principle of all ( saving He repents according to intercession and Mercy as He does a few times in scripture).

This concept is Where Faith must be rooted. If God says it, How God says it, it is and will be this cannot fail. If God says to do something, it will Work, it will come to pass as He says it will. He is incapable of Being Wrong, and He will never Lead us astray.


for instance


John 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."


This will never fail to be true, it is the Word of God through Jesus Christ Our Lord. if we will Learn what He has said to do, Live as He is Our Lord ( Not needing to be perfect, But take His words to heart and apply them to Our Lives seeking Him) we will receive the Holy spirit, it will never change, never fail. the same God who spoke creation forth, spoke this through Jesus to those who call Him Lord. it is Jesus Word to His disciples for all of time. if we really examine this first part of Hebrews, seeds of Faith will sprout and be watered as we consider the scriptures and take them to Heart regardless of what we ourselves may think.


its really More about what Jesus said, than what we think that disagrees with Him. He is Our Lord, thats what we all call Him. this automatically implies we Obey Him He is Our authority. If you look at these scriptures you see " a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" and to look at John 14 there, what does that thinking Cause in us if we believe ? it will cause us to diligently seek Jesus and receive the promise of the Spirit. its why we Need to Have our Faith in Him Because if that is true, we will believe what He says, and if that is true we will begin to seek after what He has said will bring the promises. this Being One example.


Heres Jesus saying the same thing in different words....


John 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Freedom from what!? we arent slaves.... they asked.....freedom from service to sin He replies.


If we simply Believe this Because Jesus said it and We trust Him to be telling the truth, we understand to continue in His Word will indeed bring the "spirit of truth" that will free us from slavery to sin. Some would argue that the audience matters and we should "divide" this out, yet paul says the same thing Here to the church at rome again in different words same message.


romans 6:15-18 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

" you are new creations"
if Only we can find the simple Faith that Gods Word is Good, He cannot fail to make good on the promises He gives. This promise being freedom from slavery or service to sin those terms of course directly relating to Our ways, our actions. if we Believe His Word, Faith will Move and His Word will manifest. This is the very reason I have always focused on Jesus words, and shown How many times He repeats "My words, Hear them, keep them, abide in them, Believe them, Obey them, Im speaking the Words of God" Because He is and they will never change or fail, though the world has changed and all things fail around us..... Gods word remains true and Secure, Powerful and active and Faithful to those who believe Him.


Am I discounting His death and resurrections importance? Not at all, that should win our Hearts, Knowing His Love and forgiveness, that we should believe His Word of instruction. Like abraham God said "pack up and go I will tell you where to go But get up and Go".. and then Gave abram a promise that would come to pass....and abram believed Gods Word and the Only true consequence of that Belief is that He did as God Has said because He believed it would bring the promise to pass...and it did as it always will. we do not Have to be perfect, abram Wasnt, But He did Believe and obey Gods Word by Faith being persuaded of His truth.

I know that it is hard for us to accept obedience, But that is what faith brings. the decision to Keep the words of our Lord and abide in them is where the" new creation" Begins, where the freedom is, and when the spirit comes. That decision comes simply By Believing the Word as it is Given to us.

chapter 11 has much More to say about these things, conclusion to come. If i disappear awhile after i finish these last few chapters, I hope someone considers the things in the book of Hebrews it truly is a treasure to believers.

God bless you.

 

[oldethennew]

'a deaf ear never learns - a true teacher is always a true and ready student'...

 

[followjesus]

'a deaf ear never learns - a true teacher is always a true and ready student'...

no one needs a teacher, we have Jesus Christ and the 4 Gospels for the source of all truth, we people who scatter the seeds that we carry from the word, in places like this, in the church buildings on sundays and in our Lives everyday. its really hard for anyone, to say anything of any substance because after a year and a half here there just is too many "correcters" and arguers lol what you are saying, never gets anywhere because so many people pluck 3 or four words from another persons 4 paragraph comment and then becomes a huge off the track issue, like 7th graders...........and we all have the audacity to criticize one another, christian chat, Bdf could be a really amazing and useful to learn and even connect with meaningful bonds, but honestly " we the people" in the bdf really mess things up looking for what we dont really understand, or maybe havent thought of before and bypassing all the good content of what opther people are saying...

.its like cnn and trump with the fake media in the bdf.......and thats ironic because were christians who claim righteousness and salvation, and have really awesome tool in the world like cc to share and learn things and its all about arguing , and "cliques" and the people all of us have at some point done it or at least anyone who posts much in the bdf, so no blame to anyone but we should look at the bdf like a place to learn as peacefully as possible. people should be able to post something, leave some thoughts, and then have some interactions on the subject.


I made this post to bring up the subject of Hebrews, and share some thoughts that I have came to over the years, that is all i have ever been here for, to share what i Know and the scriptures. i am no teacher, no wise man, no better no worse than anyone else Here, i actually consider myself less. this doesnt mean i then should keep wuiet of the things ive learned. if i thought myself a teacher, id be somewhere teaching , instead im Just another christian struggling to survive in the World like i assume many others here are.


the only way the bdf will ever be a good thing........is if the people will all act right when discussing Gods Word. theres a place for every subject but as long as critiques are the call of the hour rather than discussing the positive things, its a frustrating Zone we have all created on a forum where the potential is to actually grow in Gods Word rather than battle with it.


God bless you both old and new. no offense to you Just a general thought I hope your marriage is stronger and more blessed than ever before in Jesus Name @Thethronroom of almighty God.