The Yoke's On You. (Unequally Yoked Dating... Among CHRISTIAN Couples.) 2nd Try!!!

[seoulsearch]

Sorry everyone,

I couldn't delete my first run so I'm going to copy everything and try again!!! Thanks for bearing with me and if I'm able to do this right, it should be a multiple-option poll, meaning you can choose whichever and as many answers as you like. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions!


Hi Everybody,

We see a lot of discussion here and around the entire forum concerning the subject of unequal yoking--please note that I am not in any way, shape, or form, trying to say that this teaching should somehow be lessened or ignored, as it is something clearly discussed in God's Word by the Apostle Paul.

However, it always seems to me that so many people state "unequal yoking" as the" OBVIOUS", supposed " BLACK AND WHITE SITUATION" of, (drumroll, please) Christians and non-Christians.

It may just be me, but life is so very often neither white nor black in its situations and choices. What, as Christians, are we to do?

I hear a lot of good Christian advice in which we are told, "Only marry an equally yoked Christian! Don't even talk to someone who isn't!" but I know many good, Christian people who married another good, Christian yokie (forgive me for making up some of my own terms here), then did "all the right things", followed all the "good, Biblical advice", and yet everything still fell apart.

(I am NOT by any means mocking the Bible, but what I mean here is that there are so many "good Christians" who seem to have the attitude of, "Just follow all the rules and you'll be set," as if that were a. completely possible and b. is some sort of clockwork formula that works every time without fail, as some people HAVE followed all the rules as best they can and still wind up in divorce court.)

On the flipside, I know of at least one Christian couple (elders at my old church, very popular and very respected) in which the man came to Christ while they were dating. If they had followed all the "good, Christian advice" I have so often heard, they would have never wound up together.

When they first met, the woman was willing to move on because he was not a Christian, but the man decided he was going to look into "this Christianity business" because it was so important to her. His main motivation at the time may have been their relationship, but his faith proved to be sincere. They have built a several decades-long marriage, lovely family, and extremely respected ministry that is well-known in the area.

For this particular thread, I am interested in presenting some situations in which BOTH PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIANS.

Which of these situations, whether any, none, or all, would you consider to be unequally yoked, and WHY? Should it be enough that both people are Christians--would they be expected to work through most of these situations because of their faith? Why or why not? Feel free to voice your thoughts, situations, and experiences.

All of the choices listed are things I have either gone through myself or else have seen someone else go through, and yes, the last one is also a real-life situation and something I decided to throw in just for fun (thanks very much to J&M for giving me the idea and permission... and even more thanks to M for threatening me to write this thread!)

Nothing like a heavy task-master to set my computer keys in motion!!! (I tried telling him that he should pay me to write a thread for him concerning some of his ideas... but he cited a ridiculously low salary for my offer, so I decided I'll just write what I want on my own. We all know it goes downhill when some corporate sponsor tries to tell us what to write! )

But, I digress... Share with us what you think of the above "couples" and whether or not they should be dating based on their "equal"... or not... yoking.

Mucho Gracias.

 

[Crypto]

I think the survey is poorly constructed. I'm not even sure what the point of this is? In some of the situations listed one or more parties are obviously not Christians.

 

[kiwi_OT]

For me unequally yoked is two things:
1. You dont share the same doctrinal beliefs (Catholic/Protestant), and neither is will to change.
2. Your goals, values/role perceptions are different

These are so basic and should be the starting point of conversations on dates so you know what your getting into from the start.

I agree with you Kim, that there are exceptions. Very rare exceptions mindyou. People these days are always trying to justify a relationship that is clearly unequal. And just because you meet someone who fits nicely with you doesnt mean marriage will be a breeze.

 

[seoulsearch]

I think the survey is poorly constructed. I'm not even sure what the point of this is? In some of the situations listed one or more parties are obviously not Christians.

I can understand your point, Crypto.

But, it can be hard to make the ultimate judgment call of "obviously not Christian"--there are many Christian people out there struggling with the things I've listed in this poll... maybe you haven't met any of them personally, but it's hard to rule them ALL out as being "obviously not Christians."

One of the reasons I am single and have been for a very long time is that I constantly meet Christian guys who are struggling with porn and/or drug addictions (it has also been my observation that addictions usually run in multiples--meaning, people are usually addicted to more than one thing) and while I can't automatically judge them as being non-Christians, I have chosen to stay away from or get out of such situations.

You may have seen some of my posts before about Christian people who struggle with very un-Christian things, and whether or not we can call them Christians or not.

I grew up in Lutheran schools, and I saw many teachers and pastors divorcing, showing signs of sexual attraction to students, and one former teacher who later decided to try out the homosexual lifestyle, etc.

I have also seen former bosses and pastors at other places I had affiliations with be apprehended, and subsequently, given jail time, for child pornography over the internet.

A good friend of mine, about 28, and is a children's pastor's wife, said she saw a recent article about a very large conference for pastors--ALL pastors, and it was big enough that it took up the entire hotel during the three days of the conference.

In other words, EVERY SINGLE ROOM in that hotel was booked up for this conference of ALL PASTORS.

And out of the three days it was held, HALF OF THE ROOMS HAD ORDERED IN-ROOM X-RATED MOVIES.

Would we call them all non-Christians?

Again, that's part of the debate that threads such as this are meant to bring up.

God does not want us to judge unfairly, but I do agree that He wants us to use good judgment, and in some cases, that can mean backing away from someone who may be a Christian but is still having a struggle in an area you don't want to find yourself getting pulled into.

Just out of curiosity, what have your dating experiences been like, Crypto? Maybe you just haven't been running into the same things I have. (If you want to see how one of my dates went with a "good Christian guy", I can give you references to several old threads I wrote. Thanks!)

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

I think the survey is poorly constructed. I'm not even sure what the point of this is? In some of the situations listed one or more parties are obviously not Christians.

Your rude, and it was totally unnecessary for you to respond with a comment like this one.

With that being said, Kim i liked this post alot! I think people can be unequally yoked personality wise. Two people can be Christians and be totally opposite as i think you said in your thread.

Another scenario, Say you have two christians, one is very faithful and the other is backslidin. Should you not date the one that has been backsliding because it could pull you down with them?

I have no idea, there are just random thoughts that popped in my head while i was reading what you wrote.

 

[seoulsearch]

Your rude, and it was totally unnecessary for you to respond with a comment like this one.

With that being said, Kim i liked this post alot! I think people can be unequally yoked personality wise. Two people can be Christians and be totally opposite as i think you said in your thread.

Another scenario, Say you have two christians, one is very faithful and the other is backslidin. Should you not date the one that has been backsliding because it could pull you down with them?

I have no idea, there are just random thoughts that popped in my head while i was reading what you wrote.

Wow, this is a really good question, Nod, not to mention completely applicable because none of us are perfect Christians 100% of the time (and thanks so much for the encouragement! )

This would be a tough call for me as well, because I think most of us backslide in certain areas. I would have to say that for me personally, it would depend on the area of backsliding (for example... if it were drugs or a sex addiction, I would have to say no.)

Now, I'm trying to think of an area of backsliding in which I WOULD consider dating the person??? And I have to honestly say I'm not sure... as for my own areas of backsliding... I have persistent problems with fear, depression, anxiety, and eating issues... I will also go through very intense times of Bible study and classes and then throw my hands up, be angry, and question everything... not wanting anything to do with it all except for regular weekly church services... (though I did go through a stage in college where I stopped going to church for a long time), so I certainly don't want to claim to be without sin or unaware of my own obvious shortcomings. I also have a tendency to use a lot of colorful language when I'm especially mad or fired up about something!

But... at the same time... you bring up the excellent point of what would be "manageable" or "tolerable"... and what would not.


I also wanted to say that of the scenarios above... in the last situation, OBVIOUSLY, the brother who eats popcorn is in for imminent judgment... while the brother who does not like popcorn will walk away happily liberated of any addictions or punishments.

JUST KIDDING, EVERYONE (Ha, M, I TOLD you I'd get back at you!!)

 

[Matthew]

Now, I'm trying to think of an area of backsliding in which I WOULD consider dating the person??? And I have to honestly say I'm not sure...

Chocolate Addiction?.......I hear it's rife these days

 

[seoulsearch]

Chocolate Addiction?.......I hear it's rife these days

Oh, I don't know, Matthew... I mean... if he were addicted to chocolate, I'd always be trying to wrestle it away from him, and that might distract me and entice me away from my Bible reading... therefore, incurring judgement and wrath, I'm quite sure.

Just kidding, everyone!!! Y'all know I had to pick on Matthew a little bit.

Please carry on.

 

[Johnoble]

I think it's importany yo mention that in God's eyes there's shouldn't be unequal yokes amongsts his children as we should
all confess the same truths, however, in our sin and arrogance we have come to make divisions so that he concept of being unequally yoked, which should only apply for believers and non believes, has come to apply within the hundreds of christian denominations human have invented, that is very sad
Now in your post you mention people with alcohol addictions, pornography addiction , and clear religious antagonism such as with as with Catholics and Pentecostals, these in my view are clear situations we should NOT to look for.
Other things like missions or ministries are key factors that two couple should generally agree with so that later on they will not have troubles regarding their future callings.
One last note, if x has been raised in church and Y has a strong desire to learn more about the faith, then I think ocaccional "going out" is permitted as you never know if God could really be using you to draw that other person to Himself, though you must be very wise in such a situation.

 

[Jennifleur]

Chocolate Addiction?.......I hear it's rife these days

Oh no! You're talking about ME, aren't you?! "Hi, my name is Jen, and I am a chocoholic." It's true. You won't hold it against me, will you?

 

[lil-rush]

What I've noticed a lot is that when the unequally yoked thing comes up, we tend to point fingers at the other person and say "S/he is the ones with the problems." I think before saying "Well, he isn't saved," "He's the wrong type of Christian," "He isn't mature enough," "he doesn't go to church enough," etc we should look at ourselves and say "Am I a Godly enough person to be eligible material for anyone?"

That being said, I think unequally yoked is not just for Christian vs non-Christian, but for the emotional, spiritual, and mental maturity level of a person as well. For example, if Johnny is way more mentally mature than Susy they shouldn't try getting into a relationship, because Johnny may end up resenting the fact that Susy is so immature. If Susy has heaps of undealt with emotional baggage from the past and doesn't know if she feels comfortable entering into a marriage, then Johnny and Susy should either get counseling or break it off. If Johnny is a man on fire for God, and Susy only goes to church on Sunday because it is required of her, they're unequally yoked.

From what I've observed, though, it is usually the woman who is more spiritually mature, and I just want to say that if you are a spiritually mature woman in a relationship with a man who isn't as spiritually mature as you, you better watch out. The Bible tells us the man is supposed to be the spiritual head of the house and that the wife is supposed to submit to her husband. But when the man isn't Godly, that puts a Godly woman in a very stressful situation, especially when children come around. Now you have to do what Daddy says, even when he isn't raising your children in the best Godly way possible.

 

[zeroturbulence]

My! My! It appears that we are ALL doomed aren't we?

 

[Crypto]

I can understand your point, Crypto.

But, it can be hard to make the ultimate judgment call of "obviously not Christian"--there are many Christian people out there struggling with the things I've listed in this poll... maybe you haven't met any of them personally, but it's hard to rule them ALL out as being "obviously not Christians."

One of the reasons I am single and have been for a very long time is that I constantly meet Christian guys who are struggling with porn and/or drug addictions (it has also been my observation that addictions usually run in multiples--meaning, people are usually addicted to more than one thing) and while I can't automatically judge them as being non-Christians, I have chosen to stay away from or get out of such situations.

You may have seen some of my posts before about Christian people who struggle with very un-Christian things, and whether or not we can call them Christians or not.

I grew up in Lutheran schools, and I saw many teachers and pastors divorcing, showing signs of sexual attraction to students, and one former teacher who later decided to try out the homosexual lifestyle, etc.

I have also seen former bosses and pastors at other places I had affiliations with be apprehended, and subsequently, given jail time, for child pornography over the internet.

A good friend of mine, about 28, and is a children's pastor's wife, said she saw a recent article about a very large conference for pastors--ALL pastors, and it was big enough that it took up the entire hotel during the three days of the conference.

In other words, EVERY SINGLE ROOM in that hotel was booked up for this conference of ALL PASTORS.

And out of the three days it was held, HALF OF THE ROOMS HAD ORDERED IN-ROOM X-RATED MOVIES.

Would we call them all non-Christians?

Again, that's part of the debate that threads such as this are meant to bring up.

God does not want us to judge unfairly, but I do agree that He wants us to use good judgment, and in some cases, that can mean backing away from someone who may be a Christian but is still having a struggle in an area you don't want to find yourself getting pulled into.

Just out of curiosity, what have your dating experiences been like, Crypto? Maybe you just haven't been running into the same things I have. (If you want to see how one of my dates went with a "good Christian guy", I can give you references to several old threads I wrote. Thanks!)

I have a hard time calling an unrepentant porn addict a brother or sister in Christ, and the same thing with a Catholic who denies that the gospel is by grace not works. We can't judge motives of course, or hearts, but we can judge fruits (Matthew 7 tells us this). If a supposedly Christian person has nothiong but rotten fruit, then I would probably come to the conclusion they aren't a Christian. I have seen "Christians" do some pretty bad things, so I'm not generalizing, I have specific things in mind that I won't share here. And I think that has alot to do with the Americanization of the church, but that's an entirely different topic. Well, personally, I have pretty much quit dating. I've been single for about 2 years now. When I did date, I ound that girls aren't serious Christians. I find that more true now, but I'm wise enough not to get tangled up in a relationship with someone who's not serious. And I wasn't trying to be rude with my response. I think no 2 Christians are perfectly yoked because we're all at different stages of growth.

 

[Crypto]

Your rude, and it was totally unnecessary for you to respond with a comment like this one.

With that being said, Kim i liked this post alot! I think people can be unequally yoked personality wise. Two people can be Christians and be totally opposite as i think you said in your thread.

Another scenario, Say you have two christians, one is very faithful and the other is backslidin. Should you not date the one that has been backsliding because it could pull you down with them?

I have no idea, there are just random thoughts that popped in my head while i was reading what you wrote.

I clarified my response in another post. I wasn't aiming to be rude.

 

[seoulsearch]

I have a hard time calling an unrepentant porn addict a brother or sister in Christ, and the same thing with a Catholic who denies that the gospel is by grace not works. We can't judge motives of course, or hearts, but we can judge fruits (Matthew 7 tells us this). If a supposedly Christian person has nothiong but rotten fruit, then I would probably come to the conclusion they aren't a Christian. I have seen "Christians" do some pretty bad things, so I'm not generalizing, I have specific things in mind that I won't share here. And I think that has alot to do with the Americanization of the church, but that's an entirely different topic. Well, personally, I have pretty much quit dating. I've been single for about 2 years now. When I did date, I ound that girls aren't serious Christians. I find that more true now, but I'm wise enough not to get tangled up in a relationship with someone who's not serious. And I wasn't trying to be rude with my response. I think no 2 Christians are perfectly yoked because we're all at different stages of growth.

It really is a hard call.

I do know we can look at fruits...

But if we did that, 90% of the Christians I know would probably be defined as "non-Christian", including the teachers and pastors at my old Lutheran school. (Don't get me wrong, I had some great teachers too, but unfortunately, it's the most extreme ones that we remember.)

I agree that if someone is caught in a repeated, willfull path of sinful behavior, I would have a hard time believing the sincerity of their faith.

But of course, there is such a thing as being human as well. In the example I cited, as I said... if we took an honest poll of pastors who struggle with porn--and if they were honest, I would bet my faith that the percentage would be higher than most would think--but I would be hesitant as to whether or not I would automatically deem them a "non-Christian." Same with other struggles... drugs, food, alcohol, whatever it may be. Some of us spend way too much time on the internet when we should be doing more productive things, myself included! But I'm trying to amend my errant ways.

I think you make a good point that in all probability, most people are unequally yoked in some way... I guess it boils down to matter of trusting God and asking Him what He thinks of the people we choose to spend time with and whether or not they're the ones HE wants us to spend time with.

 

[Matthew]

I think no 2 Christians are perfectly yoked because we're all at different stages of growth.

Indeed.....and thus the question becomes just how many difference should be accepted and I guess that goes person to person.

I don't see the logic in the strict approach to this, marriage and indeed life as a whole is turbulent and creates divides between people with even the strongest relationships, within marriages there are times when two people are anything but equal in their views and feelings but it's clear to all that that's no grounds for divorce.....so I fail to see why it's a barrier to marriage in the first instance......if two peoples love is strong enough for them to survive those times in marriage why do they rule out the possibilty of marriage for two people with the same love who are currently single.

I'm all for being compatible on the major issues but I don't get people who find someone they say are perfect for them but turn away because they have a difference with them, they say it's because God wouldn't want it but maybe they didn't face the challenge their love would have brought to them, I don't know but minds seem to be made up on this and it seems to be an issue not open for discussion but just straight statement of views that will not be changed...and that's fine I guess.

 

[seoulsearch]

Part of the reason I wrote this thread is because of:

1. the couple I wrote about in my original post who WERE a believer and unbeliever when they met, but God worked it out and they have become a powerful union for God's work;

and in contrast,

2. several weeks ago I ran into someone I greatly admire who DID "follow all the rules"--married an "equally yoked Christian" (as equal as possible, at least), has been married longer than I've been alive, raised a large household of children together, worked side-by-side in the church and built a ministry together... and in this case, one spouse is leaving... FOR ANOTHER PERSON IN THEIR CHURCH.

So here we have two examples--in one, all the "good Christian advice" about equal yoking was thrown out the window and yet God knitted them together in a beautiful way... in the other, "all the rules were followed" to the best of their abilities, but it still all collapsed.

I run into so much Christian thinking that seems to proclaim: "If you just follow all of God's rules, if you just keep God at the center of it all, it will all be ok." But this very much depends on one's definition of "ok."

When I was younger, I used to think having a strong faith meant asking God to keep me from falling into the major harms and pitfalls of this life--now I know that even if you follow every rule as best you can (not that I do, but we all, as Christians, try), everything may still burst up in flames. I suppose the wiser prayer is, "God, whatever happens, I know you're in control, I know you have a reason, so please give me the strength and grace to get through."

After all, Jesus followed all the rules to a T--but in the end, it didn't matter--he was blamed and punished all the same, but through it all, He trusted that God was putting Him through it all, no matter how unfairly, for a greater purpose.

Sorry, a little off of my own topic, but I just had to vent!!

I'm also glad to see that y'all have a great sense of humor (reference to poll), although it's with a heavy heart that I will have to inform the aforementioned twins that they can no longer go to the movies together, seeing as they are OBVIOUSLY unequally yoked.

I'm kidding, everyone!!!

 

[Sharp]

I clarified my response in another post. I wasn't aiming to be rude.

Hey Crypto.

Unrelated question.

Are you the poster formerly known as baptistrw?

I never forget a face.

Please excuse me if I am mistaken and this post appears irrelevant.

 

[Pheonix]

Okay people, the point here is that we are all broken in some way. Whether Christian or not, we are none of us perfect, we are all sinners. Just because you have found Christ doesn't mean you are immune to sin. Just keep that in mind when we start judging each other and their opinions.

He that is without sin may cast the first stone.....

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Hey Crypto.

Unrelated question.

Are you the poster formerly known as baptistrw?

I never forget a face.

Please excuse me if I am mistaken and this post appears irrelevant.

I was gonna ask the same exact thing