Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

Or how about EVEN further?

They struggle to believe they are already dead to the old man.

So they live focused on trying to kill the old man, over and over, instead of living to the freedom found in Christ.

Hmm...my mind can't pick it up that way...
I definitely DID keep trying to kill the old man, but I think my problem was trying to finish in the flesh what began in the Spirit. I had such a hunger for righteousness in my inner man (and not some imputed righteousness but to actually and really BE good) that I tried very hard to be good. I think there was also an aspect in there that I didn't want to admit I had to give up my life (the feeling that I should be treated well by others and given respect, the pride that gets its feelings hurt when its spoken to harshly, etc.) in order to gain that. I mean, no ones going to take a car to the junkyard to be crushed until they are absolutely CERTAIN they can't get it to run and that it has no worth.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

i see the same, when I try to do things myself, I crash and burn, when I seek Gods help, and actually keep trusting him, I find victory.

Well, that's the race we are in - to keep trusting, (to keep abiding). To do so for longer and longer periods of time instead of stumbling so much as we race.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes that is exactly where I was, trying to finish in my own effort what had begun in the Spirit.

Hmm...my mind can't pick it up that way...
I definitely DID keep trying to kill the old man, but I think my problem was trying to finish in the flesh what began in the Spirit. I had such a hunger for righteousness in my inner man (and not some imputed righteousness but to actually and really BE good) that I tried very hard to be good. I think there was also an aspect in there that I didn't want to admit I had to give up my life (the feeling that I should be treated well by others and given respect, the pride that gets its feelings hurt when its spoken to harshly, etc.) in order to gain that. I mean, no ones going to take a car to the junkyard to be crushed until they are absolutely CERTAIN they can't get it to run and that it has no worth.

 

[Cee]

Amen!

And it's incredible that you wanted to do good works, and you want to have righteousness manifested in your life. Those are incredible and beautiful desires which shows you are made a new creation in Christ!

Here's how it works in my mind:

If I am trying to GET TO righteousness... I am still working to obtain what I've already received.

If I am coming FROM righteousness... I am discovering the truth of who I already am.

How do I discover this truth that sets me free?

Ephesians 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22to put off your old self,[SUP]f[/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

1. I put off the old self. (Lies)
2. I put on the new self. (Truth)

Hmm...my mind can't pick it up that way...
I definitely DID keep trying to kill the old man, but I think my problem was trying to finish in the flesh what began in the Spirit. I had such a hunger for righteousness in my inner man (and not some imputed righteousness but to actually and really BE good) that I tried very hard to be good. I think there was also an aspect in there that I didn't want to admit I had to give up my life (the feeling that I should be treated well by others and given respect, the pride that gets its feelings hurt when its spoken to harshly, etc.) in order to gain that. I mean, no ones going to take a car to the junkyard to be crushed until they are absolutely CERTAIN they can't get it to run and that it has no worth.

 

[Rosemaryx]

this is my past, so tried to kill my flesh and stop sin, and could not figure out how I never found victory, it was not until I stoped trying and just started doing (the things of God) that I finally found victory and rest.

I believe we have to practice our walk, it starts by sit.stand,walk,run ...Practice makes perfect...xox...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

SBG, did you see this?

We all have some false beliefs. If we didn't, we would know Gods' mind on everything and be perfect. If someone doesn't have perfect knowledge, that's no excuse for me to stop walking in the Spirit. And it's doubly worse for me to KEEP not walking in the Spirit, because then my stumble has become a fall into a ditch. Why would I rebuke someone for not having perfect knowledge of God when even I don't have perfect knowledge of God?

 

[JIMBO43]

I believe we have to practice our walk, it starts by sit.stand,walk,run ...Practice makes perfect...xox...

top marks too

 

[Stephen63]

You're quoting a Scripture where Paul says he speaks as if one under the law. I am quoting Scripture of one under grace.

Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

How about you address the Scriptures being discussed instead of simply ignoring them? I think that will make for a better discussion.

Romans 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Are you sure it is an ugly teaching to consider ourselves dead to sin?

C.

I NEVER SAID not to consider ourselves dead to sin.

The ugly part is you telling everyone we already are because we're saved.

WE'RE NOT.

BTW, Paul doesn't contradict himself. Every time he writes, HE WRITES TO THE CHURCH.

It's black & white..... stop painting it gray.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen!

And it's incredible that you wanted to do good works, and you want to have righteousness manifested in your life. Those are incredible and beautiful desires which shows you are made a new creation in Christ!

Here's how it works in my mind:

If I am trying to GET TO righteousness... I am still working to obtain what I've already received.

If I am coming FROM righteousness... I am discovering the truth of who I already am.

How do I discover this truth that sets me free?

Ephesians 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22to put off your old self,[SUP]f[/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

1. I put off the old self. (Lies)
2. I put on the new self. (Truth)

That takes me a little closer to understanding you.

 

[Cee]

I

I NEVER SAID not to consider ourselves dead to sin.

The ugly part is you telling everyone we already are because we're saved.

WE'RE NOT.

BTW, Paul doesn't contradict himself. Every time he writes, HE WRITES TO THE CHURCH.

It's black & white..... stop painting it gray.

I agree. It is black and white.

We are crucified, we are dead to sin, and we are to consider ourselves dead to sin.

You keep telling me what Scripture says, but ignoring Scripture that contradicts you.

I at least, answered why the Scripture you quoted "appears" to contradict.

How about you do the same? Like I said earlier, it will make for a better discussion.

Now I will address your response:

You say I am painting it gray by saying we should consider ourselves dead to sin. Yet, then you say I never said we should consider ourselves dead to sin. You're playing both sides here.

And let me address this:

"Every time he writes, He writes to the church."

You ignored this Scripture in your reply so let me just post it again for you.

Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

Who's Paul speaking to in this Scripture, Stephen?

 

[Stephen63]

Or how about EVEN further?

They struggle to believe they are already dead to the old man.

So they live focused on trying to kill the old man, over and over, instead of living to the freedom found in Christ.

If they're a christian, God has given them the ability to overcome thru the Holy Spirit.

The real struggle is letting the Holy Spirit have control. We don't want to let go & be a servant to God.

 

[JIMBO43]

you know it just amazes me how women are running a 4 minute mile in athletics when mankind only broke the 4 minute mile in the 1950s or something ... it really does show that practice makes perfect

Totaly amazing to see are modern day athletes jump 18 meters on a triple jump .. how on earth as great britains jonhathon edward held the triple jump record of 18 meters 29 cms for more than 10 years .. it like jumping all most 20 feet 3 times the size of a house gutter level 3 times,, who says we cant be perfect hmmmm even if it is just for one day

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I NEVER SAID not to consider ourselves dead to sin.

The ugly part is you telling everyone we already are because we're saved.

WE'RE NOT.

BTW, Paul doesn't contradict himself. Every time he writes, HE WRITES TO THE CHURCH.

It's black & white..... stop painting it gray.

You're out of control man. He gave a verse. It is a verse. You had problems with the verse, not with him. You have to let men have their own understandings with the Spirit. Unity isn't going to come by everyone agreeing on how it should be said. It's going to come by walking in the Spirit.

 

[Cee]

If they're a christian, God has given them the ability to overcome thru the Holy Spirit.

The real struggle is letting the Holy Spirit have control. We don't want to let go & be a servant to God.

This is where renewing of the mind comes in Stephen. And I don't think everyone would agree with the statement, "We don't want to let go & be a servant to God". Many do.

Maybe you don't, which is okay, that's why it's His goodness and kindness that leads us to repentance (thinking like He does).

C.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If they're a christian, God has given them the ability to overcome thru the Holy Spirit.

The real struggle is letting the Holy Spirit have control. We don't want to let go & be a servant to God.

I definitely agree with this.

The Holy Spirit can give me great victories - I've seen it.
But I don't want to give up control/give up my life.

 

[Cee]

That takes me a little closer to understanding you.

Haha, thank you!

It is true, I am learning how to communicate better. It's something I am continually and actively working on.

When I was a little kid, I didn't know how to talk to people very well, I continually asked my mom (and others) what the meaning of life was, why were we here, etc. I didn't care about things other people did.

And many people even close to me didn't understand me even when I was smaller. Later, I picked up many books on how to communicate with people so I could articulate myself in a way that would connect with people.

I'm a lot further along than I was, but I acknowledge there is room for growth.

That's why questions help me so much. So feel free anytime something I say is unclear or appears contradictory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I definitely agree with this.

The Holy Spirit can give me great victories - I've seen it.
But I don't want to give up control/give up my life.

sometimes it just takes a few times of letting go to realize God is faithful, his way is to our benefit,

the more we do, the more we trust, and the easier it becomes.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Haha, thank you!

It is true, I am learning how to communicate better. It's something I am continually and actively working on.

When I was a little kid, I didn't know how to talk to people very well, I continually asked my mom (and others) what the meaning of life was, why were we here, etc. I didn't care about things other people did.

And many people even close to me didn't understand me even when I was smaller. Later, I picked up many books on how to communicate with people so I could articulate myself in a way that would connect with people.

I'm a lot further along than I was, but I acknowledge there is room for growth.

You're doing fine. One man says, I need a word. Another man says, I'm so thirsty. Another man says, all my light has disappeared. Another says, He's put me on a fast in spirit.

They're all experiencing the same thing. Yet they argue and bonk each other over the head.

 

[JIMBO43]

Amen!

And it's incredible that you wanted to do good works, and you want to have righteousness manifested in your life. Those are incredible and beautiful desires which shows you are made a new creation in Christ!

Here's how it works in my mind:

If I am trying to GET TO righteousness... I am still working to obtain what I've already received.

If I am coming FROM righteousness... I am discovering the truth of who I already am.

How do I discover this truth that sets me free?

Ephesians 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22to put off your old self,[SUP]f[/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

1. I put off the old self. (Lies)
2. I put on the new self. (Truth)

the rightouseness of the pharishees was all there own downfall coz them to could NOT accept works and to obey,,,,,,,,,, now thw pharissees can be anyone you or i who knew we had seen Jesus and realized he was the son of God.

Only some wanted to have more proof and more proof and then more proof untill they decided if he is the son of God he willl come back down of the cross..

Well guess what he did in spirit you can kill the body but not the spirit. the spirit give life and not taketh it away ..

What you choose or what way you walk is yours alone and no one else and of course im the same.. we are all eunique and you are not everyone and you dont get to decide who is saved and who is not...

So of course you cant possible know what people are being expelled for.

So therefor it is not you or me or anyone else to possible say that one man could be saved for his deeds..


AS IS IT WRITTEN YOU ME EVERYOBY WILL BE JUDGED FOR THIS ....

 

[Stephen63]

We all have some false beliefs. If we didn't, we would know Gods' mind on everything and be perfect. If someone doesn't have perfect knowledge, that's no excuse for me to stop walking in the Spirit. And it's doubly worse for me to KEEP not walking in the Spirit, because then my stumble has become a fall into a ditch. Why would I rebuke someone for not having perfect knowledge of God when even I don't have perfect knowledge of God?

The end result for what you're saying is "Don't say anything"

We end up justifying ourselves with that excuse every time we feel led of the Spirit to approach someone about their need.

Have you ever heard your preacher say, "I'm preaching to me, too"?

He's declaring he needs what he's preaching just as much as anybody else.

What could a preacher preach if he disallowed everything he's dealing with?

NOTHING. He's living in flesh just like the rest of us.

The watchman sounds the alarm no matter what he's guilty of.