Not By Works
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Well said!
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. If the Son makes you free - you are free indeed.
These words along with "Come unto Me all you that are heavy laden and I will give you rest."
All these scriptures suddenly come to life when we see Christ Himself and what He has done. It is the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealing Christ Himself that brings this truth and transforms us.
To me it was the very same experience I had when I first came to Christ. I have heard many says this "It was like being born-again - again".
That is the dynamic of the kingdom that transforms us - the accurate preaching and teaching of Christ Himself.
As we "behold" the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor 3:17-18 - We are transformed by the Holy Spirit.
We are one spirit with the Lord ( 1 Cor. 6:17 ) and in beholding Christ for who He really is in this mirror - we see ourselves because we are one spirit with Him. Every feature of His image is mirrored in us.
This is the most radical transformation engineered by the Holy Spirit - we are led from an inferior mind-set to the revealed endorsement of our authentic identity in Him. The proper renewing of the mind to the realities that are in Christ is what brings true transformation in this life.
The accurate teaching and preaching along with the heart to "hear" will bring the life of Christ into manifestation. The gospel is called the "almost too good to be true news" for a reason. News is something that has already happened.
Jesus Himself said it in just these few words - "Repent - and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. If the Son makes you free - you are free indeed.
These words along with "Come unto Me all you that are heavy laden and I will give you rest."
All these scriptures suddenly come to life when we see Christ Himself and what He has done. It is the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealing Christ Himself that brings this truth and transforms us.
To me it was the very same experience I had when I first came to Christ. I have heard many says this "It was like being born-again - again".
That is the dynamic of the kingdom that transforms us - the accurate preaching and teaching of Christ Himself.
As we "behold" the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor 3:17-18 - We are transformed by the Holy Spirit.
We are one spirit with the Lord ( 1 Cor. 6:17 ) and in beholding Christ for who He really is in this mirror - we see ourselves because we are one spirit with Him. Every feature of His image is mirrored in us.
This is the most radical transformation engineered by the Holy Spirit - we are led from an inferior mind-set to the revealed endorsement of our authentic identity in Him. The proper renewing of the mind to the realities that are in Christ is what brings true transformation in this life.
The accurate teaching and preaching along with the heart to "hear" will bring the life of Christ into manifestation. The gospel is called the "almost too good to be true news" for a reason. News is something that has already happened.
Jesus Himself said it in just these few words - "Repent - and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15
Hi Stunned,
If that's true in your life ....."Praise the Lord!"
And I mean that sincerely. *hugs*For me though, the older I get and the more I study God's word, the more I realize when I learn something new that there's so much I don't know and there's so much more to learn.
It's like I'm excavating the scriptures and I continue to find more beauty and more nuggets of precious jewels.
And I also am learning I need to be more intentional in prayer, in reading the word, in service to Him because I tend to plan out my day as I want it to go.
I had a dear sweet mentor who has gone on to be with the Lord. She's the one who taught me that I need to plan my day. I can put nothing on my calendar and expect things to just happen ...... maybe they do and maybe they don't.
But the more intentional I am, the more I give more of my life to the Lord. The more I fill it with praise and worship to Him and the more I look for opportunities for divine appointments.
I'm sure others don't need this in their lives, but I do.
We're all different.
I used to struggle more in my trust. It was NOT passive, I can tell you that. And I struggled to be good, to do right, to not murder.
I don't struggle as much because my trust increased and because I discovered I could NOT be good no matter how hard I tried. I still murdered.
When I trusted Him more, to make me what He has promised, a lot of my struggle ended. It became more of a passive waiting than a monstrous struggle.
So what was once active became passive through trust.
My biggest problem more recently has been impatience at His pace.
Hi Truthtalk,
I think you're taking my comment in the wrong spirit because you misunderstand what's been said. And I also think you're prejudging me.
Maybe more explanation is needed.
As I read the word of God and act on the truth of it, I'm in obedience to His will. As I trust Him for food, work, paying the bills, etc my faith is being proved as genuine. Especially when we don't know how God's going to provide. When we struggle with the flesh, even if we fail, but continue to trust the Lord, we show our faith is genuine. As we confess our sins and are cleansed, we are living in relationship with our Heavenly Father. I could keep going on, but I think/hope you understand my point. If you don't like what I've said or agree with it that's okay, but please don't condemn me for it because God is my judge and leads me and guides me ......... and He says there's no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
So when you try to condemn me, I'm not hearing the voice of God through you.
U
Yes to prove we are blameless and innocent as to protect our testimony as believers. Paul is stating this to give credence to our testimony.
Like it was stated here tonight if we could prove our salvation by sight (others seeing it) then the whole world would be saved.
Also I just do not understand how you say we are not saved by works but we need works to be saved.
So it is one or the other, it cannot be both?
Like it was stated here tonight if we could prove our salvation by sight (others seeing it) then the whole world would be saved.
Also I just do not understand how you say we are not saved by works but we need works to be saved.
So it is one or the other, it cannot be both?
Bingo we have a winner, winner, chicken dinner...
When one truly understands imputed positional righteousness and allows to become the teacher as described in Titus 2.10-15...then the outcome is this...You will be more practically/behaviorally righteous on accident than you ever will be on purpose...
This is why some OSAS adherents get really confused by us....the effort to be holy and righteous is not based on anything we do...but by the very manifold graces of God they boast about saving them, but have zero understanding about working in them....this is because they are STRANDED at the cross and saving grace and will not die, be buried and raised into newness of life and the EMPOWERING MANIFOLD GRACES OF GOD....
empowering grace is confused with works for salvation...empowering grace is total submission to the Holy Spirit and allowing him to lead you....
When one truly understands imputed positional righteousness and allows to become the teacher as described in Titus 2.10-15...then the outcome is this...You will be more practically/behaviorally righteous on accident than you ever will be on purpose...
This is why some OSAS adherents get really confused by us....the effort to be holy and righteous is not based on anything we do...but by the very manifold graces of God they boast about saving them, but have zero understanding about working in them....this is because they are STRANDED at the cross and saving grace and will not die, be buried and raised into newness of life and the EMPOWERING MANIFOLD GRACES OF GOD....
empowering grace is confused with works for salvation...empowering grace is total submission to the Holy Spirit and allowing him to lead you....
Abraham tried to "fulfill the word of God" from his own self-effort and produced an Ishmael. This is called "living by the flesh" which can include doing things to try to "fulfill the word of God".
Sounds admirable but God doesn't recognizes it. God told Abraham to "take your son, your onlyson..." God only recognizes what He has birthed.
The sons of the flesh will always persecute the sons of the free.
Galatians 4:22-31 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
Sounds admirable but God doesn't recognizes it. God told Abraham to "take your son, your onlyson..." God only recognizes what He has birthed.
The sons of the flesh will always persecute the sons of the free.
Galatians 4:22-31 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
Paul spoke of the mysteries of God; Jesus called them secrets
Col 1.26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, [SUP]27 [/SUP]to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
I have posted this about 20x times since I have been on CC about righteousness.
Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.
Doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.
I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".
Here is how righteousness is manifested in a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.
The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!. Awake means " to come to one's true self, to sober up".
Awake to righteousness and sin not. When you see who you are in Him in your new man you will then manifest outwardly in behavior who you already are now in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells and His life gets manifested in love towards others in this hurt and dying world.
Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.
Doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.
I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".
Here is how righteousness is manifested in a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.
The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!. Awake means " to come to one's true self, to sober up".
Awake to righteousness and sin not. When you see who you are in Him in your new man you will then manifest outwardly in behavior who you already are now in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells and His life gets manifested in love towards others in this hurt and dying world.
Hi, DRose. May I call you that? Thank you for your kind welcome.
Over here in the U.S., that doctrine is prevalent in formal preaching. As I was telling Stunned, it often goes like this: "We live a righteous life (do good works., etc.), so others can see Jesus in us". I believe it is false because people couldn't see Jesus in Jesus; living righteously is for God's Glory; the carnal man has no understanding of spiritual matters; & faith cometh by hearing & hearing by the Word of God.
I think it is a doctrine that is used to aide in avoiding mentioning Jesus' Name in the spreading of the Good News of Jesus Christ to the world. Similarly, I think that of inviting non-believers to church. I think that because Paul tells us not to be unequally yoked and that darkness doesn't have anything to do with Light. Church is a place for believers (yes, CHRISTians) to go to worship God together, to fellowship, to encourage and lift up one another, & to spur one another to good deeds. To finish the race toward the Grand Prize (i.e., eternal life with Jesus).
Thank you for your response.
Thank you for your kind welcome. Over here in the U.S., that doctrine is prevalent in formal preaching. As I was telling Stunned, it often goes like this: "We live a righteous life (do good works., etc.), so others can see Jesus in us". I believe it is false because people couldn't see Jesus in Jesus; living righteously is for God's Glory; the carnal man has no understanding of spiritual matters; & faith cometh by hearing & hearing by the Word of God.
I think it is a doctrine that is used to aide in avoiding mentioning Jesus' Name in the spreading of the Good News of Jesus Christ to the world. Similarly, I think that of inviting non-believers to church. I think that because Paul tells us not to be unequally yoked and that darkness doesn't have anything to do with Light. Church is a place for believers (yes, CHRISTians) to go to worship God together, to fellowship, to encourage and lift up one another, & to spur one another to good deeds. To finish the race toward the Grand Prize (i.e., eternal life with Jesus).
Thank you for your response.
Yeah, okay.....I see what you mean. I'm in the US and I've heard that too. But not in every church I've been in.
And the part where we bring the lost into our churches; I don't see a problem with that. In 1 Corinthians it talks about a man who comes in among them who's a sinner.
Paul's explaining why prophecy is better than speaking in tongues if there's no interpretation. He says that it's better for an unbeliever to hear the message in a known tongue because the secrets of his heart would be laid bare and he would fall of his face and proclaim that God is among them.
I do think that we need a time for fellowship with believers, for new converts to be discipled to grow in the grace and mercy of the Lord and also to share the gospel with the lost.
I think that the concern here with the fellowship with darkness isn't with true seekers that come to find out more about Jesus.
It's more that we need church discipline so that those who continue to live sinfully are corrected and counseled so they'll repent of their sin or are disfellowshipped for the purpose of reconciliation like the adulterer in the Corinthian church. I was actually a part of a church that did this and it was all done in the Love of the Lord. There was great sorrow for the man who was sinning. Everyone was hoping that he would stop his relationship he was having with a married woman.
True grace doesn't permit us to stay the same; after you know that you are not condemned - it empowers you to change.
Not from eating the fruit from the old tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has been released into this world by Adam's transgression but we eat now from the tree of life which is Christ Himself.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as the true gospel of the grace of Christ is God's very empowerment through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.
As we behold the glory of Christ as in a mirror - we see reflected back who we are in Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and the Spirit transforms us ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) -
His life transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means to come to ours true selves - to sober up.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own strength but we desire His life in us to come forth - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
Not from eating the fruit from the old tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has been released into this world by Adam's transgression but we eat now from the tree of life which is Christ Himself.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as the true gospel of the grace of Christ is God's very empowerment through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.
As we behold the glory of Christ as in a mirror - we see reflected back who we are in Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and the Spirit transforms us ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) -
His life transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means to come to ours true selves - to sober up.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own strength but we desire His life in us to come forth - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
They are not revealed to all, and are still mysteries... plus, we do not understand everything about God. At least, it would seem impossible for a finite mind to comprehend the infinity of Him. We do not even understand everything about our own selves. Science seeks answers yet exposes ever more layers and questions and unknowns.
Saving grace produces salvation, empowering grace produces fruit....they say fruit bearing is not needed....this is how I know they have zero understanding of empowering grace....
I know saints that have made a career, sitting in a pew understanding how forgiven they are....God did not save you to sit and stew in saving grace all day.....and drown yourself in his forgiveness....this is what babies in Christ do, it is expected at first, but not the long term mission....he made you a minister of reconciliation to go out and bear fruit that remains...you cannot produce fruit without empowering grace, if a saint says, fruit bearing is not needed, then they will not ever allow the Holy Spirit to produce empowering grace in them....they will set and dwell at the foot of the cross stewing in saving grace....while others let empowering manifold graces build the church...
I know saints that have made a career, sitting in a pew understanding how forgiven they are....God did not save you to sit and stew in saving grace all day.....and drown yourself in his forgiveness....this is what babies in Christ do, it is expected at first, but not the long term mission....he made you a minister of reconciliation to go out and bear fruit that remains...you cannot produce fruit without empowering grace, if a saint says, fruit bearing is not needed, then they will not ever allow the Holy Spirit to produce empowering grace in them....they will set and dwell at the foot of the cross stewing in saving grace....while others let empowering manifold graces build the church...
No. They say fruit bearing is not necessary to be saved and that only Gods kindness and faith are necessary for that. Once that is out of the way, they move on. But they are right to refuse to move on in discussion to further things if they think a man has not yet got it that his being forgiven is a done deal.