Seriously What is Up With This
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What the Anglicans or my statement?
But in all honesty I was mostly laughing at the mess the Anglican Church has been in the last 30 or so years specifically
good evening 1 and all
what church or presby or temple you frequent has nothing to do with salvation
If you, in the sub stratum of your being that being the heart believe, that
jesus died on the cross, was buried in a borrowed tomb, and walked alive out of the grave then you are a child of God.
if you have any doubts or when asked you say "I hope so" then we need to pray
what church or presby or temple you frequent has nothing to do with salvation
If you, in the sub stratum of your being that being the heart believe, that
jesus died on the cross, was buried in a borrowed tomb, and walked alive out of the grave then you are a child of God.
if you have any doubts or when asked you say "I hope so" then we need to pray
Wow! Can you say, "wall of text!" Please try and remember this is not twitter! We like characters, like periods and commas. And paragraphs are essential, I feel like I have gone above and beyond in trying to help you, and so did Willie, with this regard. If we can't read it or understand it, then you might as well not post! Because, I do believe the Holy Spirit brought you to this place, to teach you. That is the only way we are sanctified. Not through rites and rituals set up by the Roman church! Only God can save people, and turn lives around, not a church, a priest, or some Game of confession and penance. With rote recitation of some prayers making up for not repenting of sin!
The first bolded part! In connection with the second bolded part!
We have already seen you admit you have never read Psalm 119. I would imagine you have not read much of the Bible, except for the portions you hear at mass. And yes, I know they are from the OT and the gospels, NT. But never in context, and always mediated or explained away.
I would hazard a guess, although I may be wrong, that you have never read the various Catholic pronouncements in dogma yourself, either. Not that I would blame you, there are so many, who would have time. Better just to let the priest teach you, right?
So, since you have NOT read the Bibke, how can you know if does not contradict RCC dogma? Well, you can't! You have been taught this your whole life, never encouraged to actually read the Bible and see if it is true!
As for mortal, venial sins, look those up in the Bible! They aren't there! That is extra Biblical, with not a shred of biblical proof, just like purgatory! And this is what Protestants object to! All this fancy talk which is totally made up, not inspired, and in fact, keeps you from being saved. Because I can commit a venial sin, confess, then do some rosaries, and bang! I am on my way straight to heaven! Not! That is not spiritual transformation! Only the Holy Spirit can change people, not rites and rituals.
Wait... I already said that!
Since he has not read much of Scripture, he is ignorantly fighting and displaying his own ignorance.
He really should read Scripture, and with someone other than a so-called priest, of which there is no biblical office. It is also a mockery of the finished work of Christ and His one time offering that has perfected all who are sanctified.
The RCC will have him jumping through hoops at its will, and then in the end he is never sure of eternal life. One mortal sin will even undo the work of Christ according to RCC false doctrine.
How very sad, and what a controlling system it is. Not to mention, according to it, all outside her are going to hell. That in itself is cultic.
He really should read Scripture, and with someone other than a so-called priest, of which there is no biblical office. It is also a mockery of the finished work of Christ and His one time offering that has perfected all who are sanctified.
The RCC will have him jumping through hoops at its will, and then in the end he is never sure of eternal life. One mortal sin will even undo the work of Christ according to RCC false doctrine.
How very sad, and what a controlling system it is. Not to mention, according to it, all outside her are going to hell. That in itself is cultic.
First off I have already explained that I have read the Bible in it's entirety and I have said I am a convert I was not "raised into Catholicism" I came to be convinced it is true. I also said I have read Psalm 119 and explained to you it has been some time I would have to reread it I also explained how Catholics and protestants meditate on scripture differently and yes I have read various papal encyclicals regarding church doctrine and dogma. Next Time it would be nice if you would actually read what I say rather than keep repeating "read the Bible" "read the Bible" "oh your brainwashed" seriously how is ignoring what I say and blatantly disregarding it just to tell me what you want any different than bearing false witness.
Truthfully, there was a time that I had never read even one word of Catholic Indoctrination Propaganda. I only read the Bible. BUT, I read it as a good Baptist is supposed to read it... with all my reading carefully guided and directed by the "proper" Baptist Doctrinal Bias that my Sunday School teachers carefully and implicitly taught me.
I ended up just like you — a product of what I was told was the way to understand the Bible. I further complicated the tangled mess of "Religion" in my head with 12 years of formal Church of Christ instruction.
So, I knew the Bible, "outside & in."
Thank God "something" in me began to see there was something wrong. And, I finally began to learn the Bible, "inside & out."
The difference? In the first studying, I was taught by "outside" influences what I was supposedly expected to look for "in" the Bible.
Through the second way, I found that what was "in" the Bible, itself, would show me how to live for Christ "outside" Religion.
I pray that you will begin to let it do that for you, too.
I ended up just like you — a product of what I was told was the way to understand the Bible. I further complicated the tangled mess of "Religion" in my head with 12 years of formal Church of Christ instruction.
So, I knew the Bible, "outside & in."
Thank God "something" in me began to see there was something wrong. And, I finally began to learn the Bible, "inside & out."
The difference? In the first studying, I was taught by "outside" influences what I was supposedly expected to look for "in" the Bible.
Through the second way, I found that what was "in" the Bible, itself, would show me how to live for Christ "outside" Religion.
I pray that you will begin to let it do that for you, too.
Well, I don't have the time to dig up the post where you said, "I have not read Psalm 119, but I will read it tonight!" I think I pointed out on that thread, that it was the longest chapter in the Bible, and probably difficult to get through in one evening, and have it have any meaning.
Just so you know, I was in the New Age movement, and then God started calling me. So, I started a course from the RCC, which was an adult catechism. But, coming from a Baptist background, I decided to read the Bible, the NT in particular. I actually bought a Catholic Bible, just because it was readable, in modern English. And I read it nightly, and I didn't understand a word, and I had lots of circles and question marks in the margins. (I have since looked at it, and it is fairly well translated. However, the footnotes have to explain everything away. Another clue that the Catholic Church contradicts the Bible!)
So, God saved me, bringing back those Bible verses I learned as a child in Baptist Sunday School. And when I read the Bible, I understood that it was all about Jesus! And I have read it ever since, and that is a long time. And, I went to seminary, and got my MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor, just to be forthcoming about where I am at. Most people here know this, and don't like it. That is their issue.
Anyway, I know that you are brainwashed, because you keep spouting all this nonsense, all these made up words, you never refer to the Bible, except that RCC dogma doesn't contradict the Bible. So, I am going to post some links that were written in the 1980's by Keith Green. They actually compare the Bible with the various catechisms and encyclicals, etc.
I dare you to read them all. Then, read the Bible and compare to your vaunted nonsense the Catholic Church has indoctrinated you in. Which I have never said, let alone used the word "brain-washing!" However, if the shoe fits, wear it!
Catholic Chronicle I- The Holy Eucharist: Eating the Flesh of Deity - Chronicle 1
Catholic Chronicle II - The Sacrifice of the Mass: What Does It Mean? - Chronicle 2
Catholic Chronicle III Salvation According to Rome - Chronicle 3
Catholic Chronicle IV - What Did Vatican II Really Change? - Chronicle 4
PS. God lead me back to a Baptist Church, where I learned to not be ensnared by traditions, but rather to correctly divide the Word of God. Rather, that was seminary, but, that came out of my leaving the charismatic movement, and going to a church where the Bible was more important than "experiences." Although there is nothing wrong with the experiences, if they correspond to the Bible. But that, is another thread!
Just so you know, I was in the New Age movement, and then God started calling me. So, I started a course from the RCC, which was an adult catechism. But, coming from a Baptist background, I decided to read the Bible, the NT in particular. I actually bought a Catholic Bible, just because it was readable, in modern English. And I read it nightly, and I didn't understand a word, and I had lots of circles and question marks in the margins. (I have since looked at it, and it is fairly well translated. However, the footnotes have to explain everything away. Another clue that the Catholic Church contradicts the Bible!)
So, God saved me, bringing back those Bible verses I learned as a child in Baptist Sunday School. And when I read the Bible, I understood that it was all about Jesus! And I have read it ever since, and that is a long time. And, I went to seminary, and got my MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor, just to be forthcoming about where I am at. Most people here know this, and don't like it. That is their issue.
Anyway, I know that you are brainwashed, because you keep spouting all this nonsense, all these made up words, you never refer to the Bible, except that RCC dogma doesn't contradict the Bible. So, I am going to post some links that were written in the 1980's by Keith Green. They actually compare the Bible with the various catechisms and encyclicals, etc.
I dare you to read them all. Then, read the Bible and compare to your vaunted nonsense the Catholic Church has indoctrinated you in. Which I have never said, let alone used the word "brain-washing!" However, if the shoe fits, wear it!
Catholic Chronicle I- The Holy Eucharist: Eating the Flesh of Deity - Chronicle 1
Catholic Chronicle II - The Sacrifice of the Mass: What Does It Mean? - Chronicle 2
Catholic Chronicle III Salvation According to Rome - Chronicle 3
Catholic Chronicle IV - What Did Vatican II Really Change? - Chronicle 4
PS. God lead me back to a Baptist Church, where I learned to not be ensnared by traditions, but rather to correctly divide the Word of God. Rather, that was seminary, but, that came out of my leaving the charismatic movement, and going to a church where the Bible was more important than "experiences." Although there is nothing wrong with the experiences, if they correspond to the Bible. But that, is another thread!
So, comparing the Bible to recognized Catholic sources is blasphemous? You do have a problem.
Too bad, I really hoped you came here to learn who Jesus was. Instead, I find a converted Lutheran, caught up in the worst dogma and real heresies in any church. Worse, because the Catholic church has led so many straight into hell with its made up doctrines that the church saves, instead of Jesus. (Remember your 7 sacraments! That's what I am talking about - now that is blasphemy!)
Bible Possession Once Banned by the Catholic Church!
Bible possession once banned by the Catholic Church!
Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.
Is There Idolatry In The Roman Catholic Church?
-
The following from the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153 also confirms the deletion
of the second Commandment and the change of the fourth. “The church, after changing
the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made
the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”
Bible possession once banned by the Catholic Church!
Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.
Is There Idolatry In The Roman Catholic Church?
-
The following from the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153 also confirms the deletion
of the second Commandment and the change of the fourth. “The church, after changing
the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made
the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”
--What Different Catholic leaders and such have said concerning this topic,
The Catholic Encyclopedia reported:
“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible,
and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
-James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.
"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."
-Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.
"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
-John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.
"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."
-Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.
"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
"Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'
-James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!
"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"
-The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.
"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."
-Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."
"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."
-Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.
"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church
transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
-Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.
"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."
-Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.
"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.
"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."
-T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.
"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."
The Catholic Encyclopedia reported:
“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible,
and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
-James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.
"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."
-Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.
"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
-John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.
"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."
-Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.
"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
"Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'
-James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!
"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"
-The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.
"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."
-Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."
"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."
-Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.
"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church
transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
-Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.
"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."
-Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.
"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.
"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."
-T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.
"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."
---Protestant views that align,
--Anglican/Episcopal
-Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism , vol. 1, pp.334, 336.
"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."
-Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments , pp. 52, 63, 65.
"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."
-Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday .
We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."
--Baptist
-Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner , Nov.16, 1893.
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.
"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"
-William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day , p. 49.
"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."
--Congregationalist
-Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.
" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath - . . 'Me Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."
Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.
" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."
--Disciples of Christ
-Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.
"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'
-First Day Observance , pp. 17, 19.
"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."
--Lutheran
-The Sunday Problem , a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.
"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."
-Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.
"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
-Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and ChurchHenry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.
"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."
-John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday , pp. 15, 16.
"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."
--Methodist
-Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.
"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
-John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.
"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."
-Dwight L. Moody
D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"
-Presbyterian
-T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.
"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."
--in A Doctrinal Catechism,
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
- See more at: Catholic Church Admits They Made the Change | Sabbath Truth
--Anglican/Episcopal
-Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism , vol. 1, pp.334, 336.
"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."
-Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments , pp. 52, 63, 65.
"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."
-Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday .
We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."
--Baptist
-Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner , Nov.16, 1893.
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.
"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"
-William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day , p. 49.
"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."
--Congregationalist
-Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.
" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath - . . 'Me Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."
Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.
" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."
--Disciples of Christ
-Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.
"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'
-First Day Observance , pp. 17, 19.
"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."
--Lutheran
-The Sunday Problem , a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.
"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."
-Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.
"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
-Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and ChurchHenry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.
"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."
-John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday , pp. 15, 16.
"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."
--Methodist
-Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.
"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
-John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.
"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."
-Dwight L. Moody
D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"
-Presbyterian
-T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.
"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."
--in A Doctrinal Catechism,
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
- See more at: Catholic Church Admits They Made the Change | Sabbath Truth
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the catholic church changed the 7th day Sabbath,
into sunday worship on the first day of the week.
They now call this the Lords day, but not one scripture
in the bible says this changed was authorized.
[h=3]Deuteronomy 4:13[/h]
-the [ten commandents] covenent exodus20-24
19:8And all the people answered together, and said,
All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.
1And God spake all these words, saying,.....
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
-You read of the actual making of the Old Covenant,
and sealing it with blood, in (Exodus 24:4-8).
And notice it concludes with the words,
“the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you ….”
to the Ten Commandment law, God added no more (Deuteronomy 5:22).
-It was then already made..., completed..., done deal, in force.
-Any other law, or covenant,coming later, is no part of it,
but a separate law or covenant. Paul tells us
“Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed,
no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto” (Galatians 3:15)
-Once a covenant is signed, sealed, or ratified, confirmed—in force,it cannot be added to or
taken away from.The Ten Commandments law was complete, God added no more or taken away..
-
the oracles of God
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of
[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
-
If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:
that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
into sunday worship on the first day of the week.
They now call this the Lords day, but not one scripture
in the bible says this changed was authorized.
[h=3]Deuteronomy 4:13[/h]
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform,
even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
-the [ten commandents] covenent exodus20-24
19:8And all the people answered together, and said,
All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.
1And God spake all these words, saying,.....
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
-You read of the actual making of the Old Covenant,
and sealing it with blood, in (Exodus 24:4-8).
And notice it concludes with the words,
“the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you ….”
to the Ten Commandment law, God added no more (Deuteronomy 5:22).
-It was then already made..., completed..., done deal, in force.
-Any other law, or covenant,coming later, is no part of it,
but a separate law or covenant. Paul tells us
“Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed,
no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto” (Galatians 3:15)
-Once a covenant is signed, sealed, or ratified, confirmed—in force,it cannot be added to or
taken away from.The Ten Commandments law was complete, God added no more or taken away..
-
the oracles of God
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of
[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
-
If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:
that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
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H
Seriously, Rex, what is your purpose here?
You said your post wasn't meant to push Catholicism, but merely to correct some of us
old ignorant dummies who have been studying this stuff since before you were born.
You already have it all figured out, so why you spending time on us ignoramuses?
Wouldn't you be more at home on a Catholic forum?
Or is there a part of you that innately knows that the RCC is bondage?
You said your post wasn't meant to push Catholicism, but merely to correct some of us
old ignorant dummies who have been studying this stuff since before you were born.
You already have it all figured out, so why you spending time on us ignoramuses?
Wouldn't you be more at home on a Catholic forum?
Or is there a part of you that innately knows that the RCC is bondage?
Re: Seriously, Rex, what is your purpose here?
I would have been fine with this thread dying a couple hours ago lol and no the original intent was not to push my beliefs it was a question and I guess I felt compelled to correct idk guess I should have seen an argument of some sort coming aboard probably should have bit my tongue
I would have been fine with this thread dying a couple hours ago lol and no the original intent was not to push my beliefs it was a question and I guess I felt compelled to correct idk guess I should have seen an argument of some sort coming aboard probably should have bit my tongue
No, the teachings of the RCC is what's blasphemous. You came here with the full intent of spreading your RC apostate religion, went on the attack on Reformed churches only to be refuted, and are so hoodwinked by the RCC that when its fallacies are exposed, and documented, you cannot accept the culpability that belongs to your false church.
That is really, really sad.
That is really, really sad.