Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
I have prayed that he was saved. Jesus called this apostle His friend at the moment of the betrayal. He definitely had remorse.
That's pretty obtuse on your part, and too little too late:

Acts 1:25 "to take over the place of this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

turned aside to go to his own place; which may be understood of Judas, and of his going to hell, as the just punishment of his sin; which is commonly so called by the Jews, who often explain this phrase, "his place", by hell; as when it is said of Laban, Gen_31:55 that he "returned to his place", it intimates, say they (d), that he returned to his place, which was prepared for him in hell; and so likewise when it is said of Balaam, Num_24:25 that he "returned to his place", they observe (e), that


"he did not return from his evil way, but returned to his place; and so intimates by saying, to his place, that which was prepared for him in hell, as the Rabbins of blessed memory say (f); "they came everyone from his own place", Job_2:11 a man from his house, a man from his country it is not written, but a man from his place, which was prepared for him in hell; and because they came to show mercy to Job, they were delivered from hell, and became worthy of the world to come; and so here, and "he returned to his place", המוכן לו בגהינם, "which was prepared for him in hell".


And another of their writers (g), on the same passage, has this remark, and he returned to his place, and he does not say,


"he went on his way, for he was driven out of his way, and went down to hell.


And agreeably to what is said of Job's friends, the Targumist on Job_2:11 paraphrases the words thus,


"and there came a man, or everyone from his place, and by this merit they were delivered from the place, prepared for them in hell.


And which place the same Targumist on Job_8:4 calls אתר מרדיהון, "the place of their rebellion"; that is, procured by it: and so Judas's own place was what he had merited by his sin, and was righteously appointed for him; and though it was not peculiar to him, but common to all impenitent sinners, yet very proper for him, as a betrayer; for it is a settled point with the Jews (h), that


"he that betrays an Israelite into the hands of the Gentiles (so Judas betrayed his master), whether in his body, or in his substance, has no part in the world to come.


This clause is by some understood not of Judas, but of Matthias, or of him that was to come in the room of Judas; and by "his own place" it is thought is meant, the "part of the ministry and apostleship", in the former clause, and which the Alexandrian copy reads, "the place of this ministry", he was to take; and now Judas by his iniquity falling from it, made way for another, for Matthias to go to his own place, which God had in his counsel and purposes designed for him; or "into his place", as the Syriac and Arabic versions render it; that is, into the place of Judas, to take his place among the apostles, in his room and stead: the Alexandrian copy reads, "into that righteous place",


(d) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 43. 2. (e) Ib. fol. 127. 1. (f) Vid. Midrash Kohelet, fol. 74. 3. (g) Baal Hatturim in Numb. xxiv. 25. (h) Maimon. Hilchot Chobel, &c. c. 8. sect. 9.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
i think the problem is, and we all suffer at tims from it, we have a belief system, and interpret the word to FIT our belief, or our belief to fit the word, whether it be the gospel, a particular doctrine, prophesy or whatever we are hardened to,
I will add to this....I, as well as you and others have had no problem stating that we stand corrected when someone proves something to us out of the word.....Paul told the Corinthian church to be enlarged (open to learning and instruction) and we are all called to that stance.....SOME REFUSE to admit and or budge one inch because it requires saying or admitting error!!
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
Don't kid yourself...you discuss nothing, you reject truth, cannot admit error, twist what we say, argue moot points and adamently stand against any truth not hammered out on your anvil of works!!!!
Now now kind sir, the love of Jesus is not in these words.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Now now kind sir, the love of Jesus is not in these words.
Bro....Jesus, Paul, The Father rebukes us out of love all the time....just as we do our children.....If I did not love her I would coddle her and tell her to go her way!!!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You have much to learn Allen. Emotional attachments should never be greater than the truth of Gods Word. Stubbornness is rebellion. Love for God..all our heart, mind, strength, is primary. The second is to love others. To hold to truth in the face of opposition is loving others and in the case of Judas? It was at his expense so to speak. The same here.

Are you thinking it should be, I'm ok, you're ok. Just love each other and be happy?

would you die for that?
That is the problem with most religionist today....let us just chunk the truth so we can all just love each other.....

Love and TRUTH GO HAND IN HAND......AND THE TRUTH CUTS ASUNDER AND IS SHARPER THAN ANY TWO EDGED SWORD....

One thing I despise....those who will coddle liars, deceivers and those who spread heresy under the banner of love!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Questioning her honesty is questioning her Christianity.
And you are in no position to be that judge.
Coddling her in error because you like her is just as much an error....and I can read and have seen her modus operandi for some time now bro
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hi Rosemary, I did not see a response unless I missed it...

We see here is that we are to WORK OUT what God, by His grace, WORKS IN.

But not to "maintain" His grace. No. As the RESULT of His grace.

Our works are to be a by-product of grace received, and faith lived out
So we are to continue to work out our salvation not trusting ourselves but abiding in God who will accomplish His will in us.

In context then, it makes more sense when one looks at the next line that ..."for it is God that works in you both to will and to do for his pleasure."

Fear and trembling I have been told in the original Greek as a expression would be more properly understood as

recognition of one's own weakness and inability."


Paul further expands here to the Ephesians

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2:8-10)



Hi all...Why do you think the Bible says 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure...


​It makes me ask myself, what would happen if i did not work out my own salvation with trembling and fear, it kind of feels like a warning to me, can someone help explain it to me please and thank you...xox...
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Bleeding heart liberals would say: Judas had a difficult childhood, (didn't we all) and he only stole money from the disciples cash box because he was a depraved child. People who take their own life do not have time to confess there sin - its too late. And confessing your sin prior to a good sin; is a sin as well. Preparation to sin; like going to a buffet to over eat, is also a sin. :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
dcon and I disagreed last evening. I know he's wrong, (;)) so was not offended. Am teasing here.

Just study on your own Fran. Let Holy Spirit teach you. Let Him fill you with His Word and it will well up out of you as you speak.
Amen.....maybe you will see your error ;) hahHH jokes of course
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
I will add to this....I, as well as you and others have had no problem stating that we stand corrected when someone proves something to us out of the word.....Paul told the Corinthian church to be enlarged (open to learning and instruction) and we are all called to that stance.....SOME REFUSE to admit and or budge one inch because it requires saying or admitting error!!
That's odd again.
I can't ever remember you ever admitting you were wrong about anything not even once.
Can you tell us a time when that happened?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
Bleeding heart liberals would say: Judas had a difficult childhood, (didn't we all) and he only stole money from the disciples cash box because he was a depraved child. People who take their own life do not have time to confess there sin - its too late. And confessing your sin prior to a good sin; is a sin as well. Preparation to sin; like going to a buffet to over eat, is also a sin. :)
Yes, it was the fault of white privilege. Even back then.

Now, I think you meant "deprived" lolzzzzz...but I got a chuckle out of it that way. ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I have to say that the deception sure is working close to the Truth...
And based upon your above post to G777 it is obvious you fail to understand the word perfect in context.......your MODERN APPLICATION of perfect is missing the mark!
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
That is the problem with most religionist today....let us just chunk the truth so we can all just love each other.....

Love and TRUTH GO HAND IN HAND......AND THE TRUTH CUTS ASUNDER AND IS SHARPER THAN ANY TWO EDGED SWORD....

One thing I despise....those who will coddle liars, deceivers and those who spread heresy under the banner of love!!!
So, since I am a true born again Christian and you don't like what I say, therefore you hate me.
Where is the teaching on this in the New Testament?
Again, maybe you are wrong in interpreting what I say.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
This teaching that exists out there that we are to be perfect and righteous like our Father is incomprehensible to me,

I really was unaware of it until I came to this discussion board.

People must blind themselves to the deceitfulness in their own heart

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

I do not think human nature has changed.

This is why we cling to Jesus because we know His perfection within us and we strive to live in His perfection

When Jesus commands us love one another, we can only do this by putting into operation or manifesting the love of Christ already within us

There is an effortlessness (our effort) to this manifesting of the life within, that can only be understood when one has their life hid with Christ
They, in error, apply the modern English word perfect....failing to understand that is not what the word means......to a 1st Century Christian it means COMPLETE NOT PERFECT!!!!