Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Paul agreed with Jesus.
The problem is that he had a different way of teaching.
Paul NEVER says that we are not to follow the Lord!
So true, he would not of dared... He taught endlessly the New Testament being Of GOD and True against those preferring the old wine and wanting to remain married to the dead husband rather than believe the Messiah.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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1 Corinthians 3

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.



Fran... Here is Paul teaching against their understanding.. but I'm sure they have an explanation or a different language that must be learnt to get round it...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Not hardly pal.......Faith plus works is a gospel of a different kind (heteros) and is not the same kind (allos) that Paul preached and all who teach it or believe it are foolish and bewitched.....!
The above is for loveme1.

Wow. You know Greek!

How about English?
Pal?
You're speaking to a girl.
Show some respect.
Jesus respected women.

Oh. And you read the Greek Bible?
No.

Then do yourself a favor and stick to English.
Go back and read everything again with an open mind.

Especially those parts where Jesus is speaking and telling you what He expects from you.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Then likewise with what you quote and to be honest you wrestle with not understand Paul..
You're incorrect, I will address ANY Scripture given to me.

Okay then give me the "understanding" that I am wrestling with... don't just tell people they don't understand...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
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The above is for loveme1.

Wow. You know Greek!

How about English?
Pal?
You're speaking to a girl.
Show some respect.
Jesus respected women.

Oh. And you read the Greek Bible?
No.

Then do yourself a favor and stick to English.
Go back and read everything again with an open mind.

Especially those parts where Jesus is speaking and telling you what He expects from you.
I had just referenced the idea of needing to read the Bible in another language to understand..

Glory to the Almighty GOD and our Messiah.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Fran,

I said she is saved. I didn't say she wasn't.

I said she does good works because she IS saved. I don't personally believe any unsaved person would spend this much time writing about Jesus on these forums. Discipleship is another matter. Which is why Paul says we must GROW UP in Christ. Maturity is what Holy Spirit reveals.

Cee
What you just said is soooo old and soooooo stale!

Does loveme1 sound like an unsaved person to you? Trying to gain salvation by works?

She sounds like a saved person desiring to follow her LORD.
Why is she being given slack for this???

What's wrong with doing what Jesus commanded?

It seems to me that those who preach to NOT be a good and faithful SERVANT are the ones who are twisting the NT to make it mean what they would like it to mean instead of repeating what JESUS taught.

I've printed about 15 NT verses about how we're to WORK and it's totally ignored.
Why?

Maybe because some here don't want to do anything for God but "believe".
They don't even do that because Believe is an action word.

We do not have an actionless Dead Faith, but a faith that is alive with both LOVE and ACTIONS.

I've been following this thread for some time now and fail to see the position of those who attack me personally and call those such as myself names...reminds me of kindergarten.

It is a mystery indeed how a CHRISTIAN could demean another Christian who is trying to be a good disciple
Instead of Encouraging them.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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You're incorrect, I will address ANY Scripture given to me.

Okay then give me the "understanding" that I am wrestling with... don't just tell people they don't understand...

You pit Peter and Paul off and say I go to James because it supports my belief.. yet I say all write with the same belief... yet your understanding is at fault because you seperate them...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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You pit Peter and Paul off and say I go to James because it supports my belief.. yet I say all write with the same belief... yet your understanding is at fault because you seperate them...
You're incorrect again. I believe they are the same. YOU are the one who called it "Paul's gospel". *I* call it THE gospel. So instead of saying I don't have understanding, why don't you give me it? I am waiting for you to explain Galatians 1-3.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I had just referenced the idea of needing to read the Bible in another language to understand..

Glory to the Almighty GOD and our Messiah.
I can read the bible in two languages.
Both say exactly the same thing.

I have a friend who can read the bible in koine Greek.
It says exactly the same thing.

Any language is enough when one WANTS to understand it.
When one Does Not want to understand it because it is uncomfortable, then they run to the Greek and try to twist what it says.

Think of it....
Can only those who know koine Greek be saved??!!!!

It's a waste of time and energy in a futile attempt to try to mislead those who might be a new Christian.
Who do these Greek "experts" think they are kidding?

Only themselves!
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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You don't know people's motivations and intentions. Quit assuming you do. THAT is extremely stale and old.

I can read the bible in two languages.
Both say exactly the same thing.

I have a friend who can read the bible in koine Greek.
It says exactly the same thing.

Any language is enough when one WANTS to understand it.
When one Does Not want to understand it because it is uncomfortable, then they run to the Greek and try to twist what it says.

Think of it....
Can only those who know koine Greek be saved??!!!!

It's a waste of time and energy in a futile attempt to try to mislead those who might be a new Christian.
Who do these Greek "experts" think they are kidding?

Only themselves!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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You're incorrect again. I believe they are the same. YOU are the one who called it "Paul's gospel". *I* call it THE gospel. So instead of saying I don't have understanding, why don't you give me it? I am waiting for you to explain Galatians 1-3.
Here's an easy rule of thumb Cee.

IF you ever see a contradiction between Paul and Peter or James or Any writer...
You Always refer back to what JESUS said.

After all He was the master ,,, the student is not the master.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I see NO contradiction. And Peter, Paul, and James were lead by the Spirit of God. Not simply, "Students". The Spirit of God wrote Scripture through them.

Here's an easy rule of thumb Cee.

IF you ever see a contradiction between Paul and Peter or James or Any writer...
You Always refer back to what JESUS said.

After all He was the master ,,, the student is not the master.
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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You don't know people's motivations and intentions. Quit assuming you do. THAT is extremely stale and old.
What IS the intention?

Why are You allowed to assume and not me?

You assume loveme1 is trying to gain salvation by works.

What can the intent be of going to the Greek unless two theologians are discussing a minute point?
What Greek word made you change your mind about something?
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I see NO contradiction. And Peter, Paul, and James were lead by the Spirit of God. Not simply, "Students". The Spirit of God wrote Scripture through them.
No contradiction.
Good!

So you believe not only what was written by inspiration, but what Jesus, who is God Himself, said.

This is refreshing for this particular thread where the words of Jesus are discarded.
 
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Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Fran,

She SAID that eternal life is a reward for works. Feel free to go back to our prior discussion. I am not assuming anything. I am referencing what she has continually said.

You said, they go to the Greek so they can TWIST what is being said, that is dishonest, a lot of people go to the Greek so they can understand in a greater way of what is being said. Myself included. Many Greek scholars are the ones who translated our ENGLISH Bible versions. Do you think they were perfect? If they were, which one because you have plenty of versions to choose from. Or do you only have a problem with people who want to understand the Greek on their own?

What IS the intention?

Why are You allowed to assume and not me?

You assume loveme1 is trying to gain salvation by works.

What can the intent be of going to the Greek unless two theologians are discussing a minute point?
What Greek word made you change your mind about something?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
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You're incorrect again. I believe they are the same. YOU are the one who called it "Paul's gospel". *I* call it THE gospel. So instead of saying I don't have understanding, why don't you give me it? I am waiting for you to explain Galatians 1-3.
Check what you say I said.. but never mind.

Galatians 1-3?

Ask away...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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Actually you're right I'm incorrect.

I looked back and I misunderstood what you said on post #29032 when you said, "The Gospel Paul preached?"

I understood it as you denying Paul's inspiration, but you were quoting something someone said to you.

So I do apologize for my misunderstanding on that.

Check what you say I said.. but never mind.

Galatians 1-3?

Ask away...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Actually you're right I'm incorrect.

I looked back and I misunderstand what you said when you said, "The Gospel Paul preached?"

I understood it as you denying Paul's inspiration, but you were quoting something someone said to you.

So I do apologize for my misunderstanding on that.
Easily done... such a fast moving way of conversing that things can be come mixed.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for that is all we can do.Paul was dealing with Gentiles,and their religions,and anybody that thought that the Old Testament physical ordianances would benefit them.

Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit,and grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit.

Jesus told the disciples they are to teach people all things that He commanded them,and we are to cast down all imaginations,and every thought is to be to the obedience of Christ.

God said He wants all to be saved,and the Spirit and bride say,anybody can have that salvation,and God is no respecter of persons,and says there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek,and what makes you to differ from another person.

This is the SEAL,those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks that to their shame,and do not depart from God,by the deceitfulness of sin,and a person that does not do righteousness is not of God.

It is a matter that some people do not want to harmonize scriptures,but hear it a certain way,and that is it,and the belief is their salvation cannot falter at any time regardless of their actions,so if they lack works they are alright,if they engage in sin they are unscathed,if they love money,and material things,has no bearing on their salvation,and some even say God blesses that way,as if God does not love people,and to help them.

It is all about we were chosen,God loves us,and nobody else can even try to have salvation,even if they act more righteous than we do they get no salvation,for everybody is in trouble for their sins,but us chosen,for we can get away with it,but all the rest of you cannot.

The Bible speaks that it is the outward actions that define us,and our thoughts,and can either save us,or condemn us,and not they are right regardless of their actions,for the Bible says a good tree does not bring forth evil fruit,so you will know them by their fruits,for our actions is what we will be judged on,not we confess Christ so we are alright,and our actions do not mean anything towards salvation.

The Lord knows them that are His,and this is the SEAL,this is the seal that seals the deal,that they depart from iniquity.

They cannot say we are chosen,and sealed unto the day of redempetion,and hold unto sin,say sin does not affect their relationship with God,and their outward actions that are wrong do not hinder them,for the SEAL is they depart from iniquity,and if they hold unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away.