Not By Works
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We do good works by default when we are aligned to God (100% filled with the Holy Spirit). This is a rare occurrence.
We would have already got there, to be doing good works naturally, rather than the other way around. However 'choosing' to do good works when it does not come by default, is a good way to align to God.
And most are not aligned to God (100% you are, 99% you are not), just as most people here speak hypothetically. In fact most Christians speak hypothetically based on Biblical/Scriptural learning, rather than based on experience. It would be nice to hear that which comes from knowing.
We would have already got there, to be doing good works naturally, rather than the other way around. However 'choosing' to do good works when it does not come by default, is a good way to align to God.
And most are not aligned to God (100% you are, 99% you are not), just as most people here speak hypothetically. In fact most Christians speak hypothetically based on Biblical/Scriptural learning, rather than based on experience. It would be nice to hear that which comes from knowing.
P
But the church has been taught that to purposely do good is to be trying to earn your own salvation. How absurd.
I would expect a professing Christian to purposely restrain himself from wanting to steal from me (or whatever) when tempted to do so, even if he didn't feel like doing the right thing in that moment. As you say, until we arrive at the perfection of the glorified Christ we all will indeed be making conscious decisions to choose right from wrong, and that will certainly not be us trying to save ourselves (how foolish to think that), but it will certainly show us to possess the justification that comes from faith apart from works.
I would expect a professing Christian to purposely restrain himself from wanting to steal from me (or whatever) when tempted to do so, even if he didn't feel like doing the right thing in that moment. As you say, until we arrive at the perfection of the glorified Christ we all will indeed be making conscious decisions to choose right from wrong, and that will certainly not be us trying to save ourselves (how foolish to think that), but it will certainly show us to possess the justification that comes from faith apart from works.
P
Dead faith is faith without works attached. Here's the context where that is explained:
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:14-16 NASB)
And note, it can not save. Dead faith (note: faith) can not save. The person who gets to the Day of Judgement without works attached to their confession of faith will be put on the left with the goats.
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:14-16 NASB)
And note, it can not save. Dead faith (note: faith) can not save. The person who gets to the Day of Judgement without works attached to their confession of faith will be put on the left with the goats.
Actually, and still, you don't know what you're talking about. You make a mockery of the sealing of the Spirit, and are facetious when speaking of it dismissively, as you do.
This sealing and its tense show that it cannot be undone, but is, in context of Ephesians 1:12-14 kept intact until the converted person experiences redemption.
That you believe a person can undo this work of the Spirit borders blasphemy, is utterly arrogant, ignorant of Gospel facts, and dismissive of the eternal work of God upon His elect.
Of course, no Scripture, just an asinine and sacrilegious illustration is offered concerning the work of the Spirit of God.
The above shows your blatant and facetious attitude toward the sealing of the Spirit upon His elect, comparing this to a package of lasagna.
It is, frankly, obtuse of you.
You really ought repent of your attitude towards the Spirits eternal sealing of His elect. You're opposing His eternal and gracious work.
This sealing and its tense show that it cannot be undone, but is, in context of Ephesians 1:12-14 kept intact until the converted person experiences redemption.
That you believe a person can undo this work of the Spirit borders blasphemy, is utterly arrogant, ignorant of Gospel facts, and dismissive of the eternal work of God upon His elect.
Of course, no Scripture, just an asinine and sacrilegious illustration is offered concerning the work of the Spirit of God.
The above shows your blatant and facetious attitude toward the sealing of the Spirit upon His elect, comparing this to a package of lasagna.
It is, frankly, obtuse of you.
You really ought repent of your attitude towards the Spirits eternal sealing of His elect. You're opposing His eternal and gracious work.
P
Something in this doesn't add up to me. I'll keep working on it. 
It will be good to delve into further.
It will be good to delve into further.
Only Christians have zoe life. And only obedient Christians get to enjoy it.
U
I have no affiliation to Calvinism,
But it seems once again you have missed what scripture is saying very plainly.
The word γεγέννηται as a perfect tense describes for the child of God that the kind of birth experienced out from the God is a “perfect birth,” that is, a birth that is completed in the past with present, continuing results. The New Birth is a perfect birth.
Thusly, the child of God is one who is generated out from the God and remains generated out from the God; further, the child of God is one who (because of his birth out from the God) is continuously believing
The perfect tense in Koine Greek, indisputably refers to a completed or once-and-for-all action in the past with a permanent result in the future. This language is deliberate and for a reason.
You have absolutely not argument against this, Koine Greek is the perfect language to express this reality. The once and for all action has a permanent future result.
If you spoke other languages you would understand this concept.
But it seems once again you have missed what scripture is saying very plainly.
The word γεγέννηται as a perfect tense describes for the child of God that the kind of birth experienced out from the God is a “perfect birth,” that is, a birth that is completed in the past with present, continuing results. The New Birth is a perfect birth.
Thusly, the child of God is one who is generated out from the God and remains generated out from the God; further, the child of God is one who (because of his birth out from the God) is continuously believing
The perfect tense in Koine Greek, indisputably refers to a completed or once-and-for-all action in the past with a permanent result in the future. This language is deliberate and for a reason.
You have absolutely not argument against this, Koine Greek is the perfect language to express this reality. The once and for all action has a permanent future result.
If you spoke other languages you would understand this concept.
P
Here, read this:
As you can see the Perfect tense does not mean the continuing results of the action completed goes on beyond the present and can not be stopped. It simply means whatever the results of the completed action are, they continue beyond the moment the action was completed.
Don't add 'those results can't be stopped' to the definition. For example, it's entirely possible in the example given above that a person could one day forget what someone told them years ago even though what they said many years ago had continued in their mind for a long time.
5. Perfect Tense
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Sample translation: "I have believed."
Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present.
Example: We can see the perfect tense in action in 1 John 1:3: "What we have seen and [have] heard we proclaim to you also."
The apostle John is making the point that he was an eyewitness to the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ, and that personal experience serves as the basis for the message that he proclaims decades later. You might paraphrase the first verb as "We saw Him, and we can still visualize what we saw." One writer has explained the second verb as "We heard Him, and His words are still ringing in our ears." John saw and heard Jesus many years earlier, and that era of his life has been completed. But the results continue. What he learned so many years ago remains with him now.
(From http://ezraproject.com/id27.html emphasis mine)
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Sample translation: "I have believed."
Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present.
Example: We can see the perfect tense in action in 1 John 1:3: "What we have seen and [have] heard we proclaim to you also."
The apostle John is making the point that he was an eyewitness to the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ, and that personal experience serves as the basis for the message that he proclaims decades later. You might paraphrase the first verb as "We saw Him, and we can still visualize what we saw." One writer has explained the second verb as "We heard Him, and His words are still ringing in our ears." John saw and heard Jesus many years earlier, and that era of his life has been completed. But the results continue. What he learned so many years ago remains with him now.
(From http://ezraproject.com/id27.html emphasis mine)
As you can see the Perfect tense does not mean the continuing results of the action completed goes on beyond the present and can not be stopped. It simply means whatever the results of the completed action are, they continue beyond the moment the action was completed.
Don't add 'those results can't be stopped' to the definition. For example, it's entirely possible in the example given above that a person could one day forget what someone told them years ago even though what they said many years ago had continued in their mind for a long time.
But it seems with what I've read that they will be brought to life again only to then die a second death...doubly dead - once humanly, as we all die, and then a second time because they have no eternal life by the second birth.
Interesting stuff here!
Interesting stuff here!
When a person dies they go to be where they're supposed to be.
At the RESURRECTION, there is the final Death (or LIFE)
We don't stay dead when we die.
Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Ditto for those that are going to the other place.
There are 3 deaths:
Physical
Spiritual
Eternal
Eternal Death is when one goes to hell, because it is permanent.
I think you're getting judgement mixed up with what happens after Death???
Thanks, Ill read that today. It may help me.
I actually was just thinking that the way I look at it would help the argument of OSAS. And it would help it not just a little bit either - it would help it to the point of cementing it, to my mind.
By that I mean, if satan appears to be an eternal being somehow apart from the Holy 'Spirit in him, (and it certainly does appear that way) and you take into account that He blocked the way to the tree of life so that we would NOT have that as satan does apart from Him, it would seem to show that eternal life cannot be given and then taken back.
But I'll read what you posted here for me and go look for the verses.
I actually was just thinking that the way I look at it would help the argument of OSAS. And it would help it not just a little bit either - it would help it to the point of cementing it, to my mind.
By that I mean, if satan appears to be an eternal being somehow apart from the Holy 'Spirit in him, (and it certainly does appear that way) and you take into account that He blocked the way to the tree of life so that we would NOT have that as satan does apart from Him, it would seem to show that eternal life cannot be given and then taken back.
But I'll read what you posted here for me and go look for the verses.
And because of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” (1 Cor 1:30-31)
i'll not go into a litany of anything i do.
do i believe Christians should obey God? indeed, i do.
do i believe Christians are meriting salvation (or the maintenance thereof) in their obedience? i do not.
i'll not go into a litany of anything i do.
do i believe Christians should obey God? indeed, i do.
do i believe Christians are meriting salvation (or the maintenance thereof) in their obedience? i do not.
