Not By Works

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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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PHart said:
Every author in the Bible who says works are the proof of faith is saying works justify a person. You won't get it though because you probably do not know that 'justified' has two meanings: It means 1) to be made righteous, the way Paul uses it, and 2) to be shown to be righteous, the way James uses it.

Check it out in any dictionary if you do not believe me.

James says a person is BOTH justified by faith AND by works. Faith makes us righteous before God apart from works. Our works show us to have that declaration of right standing with God. The church is taking false comfort in the former and ignores completely the latter, which they do this to their own detriment not knowing that Christ will use your works to determine if you are a sheep that believes in him or a goat that doesn't. The church has taught them to not be able to see this truth in the Bible. It has been removed from the church because it was decided that OSAS is true and so the plain passages that deny OSAS are no longer able to be seen by the church.
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only James from what I read Phart.

I don't disagree that there will be works Phart. I thought that was clear in my posts.

But His Work is our salvation. Alone.
 
G

gb9

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FranC said:
Another cut and paste.
Great.

Please explain 2 peter 2:20-22

Oh wait.
I know...
escaped does not mean escaped.
defilement does not mean defilement.
entangled does not mean entangled.
overcome does not mean overcome.
known does not mean known.


Yes. In order to agree with YOU many parts of the bible have to be changed.
Maybe we could go to the Greek and mislead some people?

Or we could stick to the English which was translated by GREEK SCHOLARS and actually BELIEVE what Peter is saying.
Poor Peter, he spent so many years with our LORD, and some have a difficult time believing what HE TEACHES US
under the inspiration of the HOLY SPIRIT, which is GOD.

Talk about grieving the Holy Spirit...
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Peter in that chapter was referring to false teachers and profits, who knew the truth and were purposely spreading false doctrine. nothing to do with working to stay saved. he was speaking to the false teachers who new truth , but denied it.

also notice that in verse 20 that they have knowledge of Jesus, he did NOT say that they BELIEVED in Him. big difference.

I know you asked grace 7, not me ( I think I hit a nerve with my reductionism explanation ), but that is what Peter is addressing in chapter 2, and that is not a matter of subjective opinion, that is truth.
 
AllenW

AllenW

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Apr 20, 2016
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stonesoffire said:
I don't understand your point Allen.

I am not prophesying here. Nor writing poems.
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Then what are you trying to do?
Let someone else think for you instead of calling of the Spirit of God to help you understand?
Try it.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Whose power Allen, Fran, Phart, do we live a righteous life by?

Actually righteous is the wrong word. Living morally is upright. Symbolized by the palm tree. There yoou go Allen. Not prophesying, but studied.
 
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PHart

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#29,391
stonesoffire said:
Whose power Allen, Fran, Phart, do we live a righteous life by?
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By the Spirit of God, or course. That's why the worksless life won't be saved. Workslessness shows you to NOT HAVE THE POWER OF GOD IN SALVATION.

But so many in the church think their Game of Thrones viewing does not prove anything either way, and that what we do is irrelevant to salvation. People who really do have and care about faith in God's forgiveness will hear what I'm saying and shut off Game of Thrones. They will be proving the life of God is in them through a continuing faith in Him. Others will continue to chant their famous mantra, "salvation is not by works" and will rationalize continuing in their wickedness thinking they will be saved on the Day of Wrath despite their actions that deny Christ, because as they say, "salvation is soooo not of works". They are oblivious to the fact that the salvation that is not of works is the salvation that works!
 
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UnderGrace

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Thank you, but I only know the gospel really well, because I have been so taken to task, in the past by some false teachers.

I have learned there is a continuum of false teachings just on the simple gospel so I

learned to contend for the true faith.

Trial by fire I might add.




stonesoffire said:
ou must spread some Reputation around before giving it to UnderGrace again.

awesome! I am learning so much from you guys who are versed in theology.
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oldethennew

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Feb 28, 2016
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JAMES 3:17.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated,
full of mercy and good fruits,='works-acts-deeds' without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
 
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UnderGrace

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#29,395
Can you link that post, when you have a chance. I must have missed it trying to keep is not easy.:)

I do so agree.


gb9 said:
and this is why they use the practice of reductionism, which I explained a few posts ago. they throw out anything that does not fit their agendas.
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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Thank you. By Holy Spirit, who will never leave or forsake us. I have no idea what you are talking about with game of thrones other than it's a tv program. I watch naked and afraid and the news on tv.

So one born again has been penetrated or pierced (circumcised of flesh in heart), lives by faith in the Word of God, and stands in the victorious life of resurrection life. After resting in heavenly realms and knowing what the true sabbath rest.

so who are you all talking to here?

stupid iPad!
 
AllenW

AllenW

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Apr 20, 2016
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stonesoffire said:
Whose power Allen, Fran, Phart, do we live a righteous life by?

Actually righteous is the wrong word. Living morally is upright. Symbolized by the palm tree. There yoou go Allen. Not prophesying, but studied.
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Oh. so now you're sticking up for everyone else, except me.
Even FranC.
I must be very imposing on you.
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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mj007 said:
We do good works by default when we are aligned to God (100% filled with the Holy Spirit). This is a rare occurrence.

We would have already got there, to be doing good works naturally, rather than the other way around. However 'choosing' to do good works when it does not come by default, is a good way to align to God.

And most are not aligned to God (100% you are, 99% you are not), just as most people here speak hypothetically. In fact most Christians speak hypothetically based on Biblical/Scriptural learning, rather than based on experience. It would be nice to hear that which comes from knowing.
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Love your post.

"However choosing to do good works when it does not by default"

Thats where the rubber meets the road.

Luke 6:27-36 (NKJV)
Love Your Enemies
27 “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. 29 To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. 31 And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.
32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
 
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