Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Paul uses the term "in Christ" in some form or other 174x times in his epistles when referring to Christians. We are talking about Christians here - not unbelievers.
The Holy Spirit is with us forever Jesus said.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
The Spirit of truth is with us forever!
2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:
John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?
As for 2 Peter 2:20 ...here is the answer to that...that has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.
The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..
then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.
Even "IF" ( altho when read in context - it is obvious that they are unbelievers ) it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell - works-based believers that think they can save themselves by good works just "read" that into the text.
Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us. Anyone interested in this can click on the link below.
Twice dead
The Holy Spirit is with us forever Jesus said.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
The Spirit of truth is with us forever!
2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:
John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?
As for 2 Peter 2:20 ...here is the answer to that...that has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.
The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..
then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.
Even "IF" ( altho when read in context - it is obvious that they are unbelievers ) it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell - works-based believers that think they can save themselves by good works just "read" that into the text.
Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us. Anyone interested in this can click on the link below.
Twice dead
Last edited:
How many times have I said this?
Why is it so difficult to understand?
Because when something doesn't suit some persons they run to the Greek and invent what THEY want the verse to say.
It's an incredible practice.
It requires a lot of creativity and apparently some have it.
It's like they're saying that the persons who translated the Greek N.T. were dumb and now we need to help them along.
They were, and are, Greek scholars, theologians with PhD's, biblical scholars, etc.
But we shoudn't trust them... no, we should trust our trusty posters here !
I asked Cee to tell me ONE WORD in the Greek that changed what he believed about something.
NO ANSWER.
I ask what believe means and they give me the strong's.
I agree with you. I feel sorry for all those poor folk who don't know Greek and will never be saved !!
Why is it so difficult to understand?
Because when something doesn't suit some persons they run to the Greek and invent what THEY want the verse to say.
It's an incredible practice.
It requires a lot of creativity and apparently some have it.
It's like they're saying that the persons who translated the Greek N.T. were dumb and now we need to help them along.
They were, and are, Greek scholars, theologians with PhD's, biblical scholars, etc.
But we shoudn't trust them... no, we should trust our trusty posters here !
I asked Cee to tell me ONE WORD in the Greek that changed what he believed about something.
NO ANSWER.
I ask what believe means and they give me the strong's.
I agree with you. I feel sorry for all those poor folk who don't know Greek and will never be saved !!
Hi Phart and Fran...I just looked at the link and wow it has some great free books for free, that is wonderful news Praise God, but the one that i want for my son who is in prison they only dispute to America and not other countries, i am so gutted because it is called The New Testament Recovery version and i know it would help my son tremendously as he is a babe in Christ and this book is about recovery from drugs etc and uses Scripture to those who are seeking healing from our Lord
...Although i can not order this book I have found from another site they gave that do send free resources for those starting out on their journey so i have ended up will a little gem after all, thank you for the link Phart...xox...
...Although i can not order this book I have found from another site they gave that do send free resources for those starting out on their journey so i have ended up will a little gem after all, thank you for the link Phart...xox...
I'll have my son mail it to you.
This can be done by P.M.
Grace!
Looks like you know how many times.....
So.
How many times did Jesus speak about salvation in the gospels?
Let's hear it.
Then tell me how many times He spoke about the Kingdom, how to get in it and how to stay there.
I asked Stone too, but she refuses to do this.
I think she doesn't like the answer.
How 'bout you???
Looks like you know how many times.....
So.
How many times did Jesus speak about salvation in the gospels?
Let's hear it.
Then tell me how many times He spoke about the Kingdom, how to get in it and how to stay there.
I asked Stone too, but she refuses to do this.
I think she doesn't like the answer.
How 'bout you???
~Greeting
Col 1:1 From: Paul, an apostle of the Messiah Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother.
Col 1:2 To: The holy and faithful brothers in Colossae who are in union with the Messiah. May grace and peace from God our Father be yours!
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Col 1:3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, praying always for you,
Col 1:4 because we have heard about your faith in the Messiah Jesus and the love that you have for all the saints,
Col 1:5 based on the hope laid up for you in heaven. Some time ago you heard about this hope through the word of truth, the gospel
Col 1:6 that has come to you. Just as it is bearing fruit and spreading all over the world, so it has been doing among you from the day you heard it and came to know the grace of God in truth.
Col 1:7 You learned about this gospel from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of the Messiah on your behalf.
Col 1:8 He has told us about your love in the Spirit.
Col 1:9 For this reason, since the day we heard about this, we have not stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the full knowledge of God's will with respect to all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
Col 1:10 so that you might live in a manner worthy of the Lord and be fully pleasing to him as you bear fruit while doing all kinds of good things and growing in the full knowledge of God.
Col 1:11 You are being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might, so that you might patiently endure everything with joy
Col 1:12 and might thank the Father, who has enabled us to share in the saints' inheritance in the light.
Col 1:13 God has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom he loves,
Col 1:14 through whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
The Preeminence of Christ
Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 He himself existed before anything else did, and he holds all things together.
Col 1:18 He is also the head of the body, which is the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself might have first place in everything.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all of his divine essence inhabit him.
Col 1:20 Through the Son, God also reconciled all things to himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, thereby making peace through the blood of his cross.
Col 1:21 You who were once alienated with a hostile attitude, doing evil,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled by the death of his physical body, so that he may present you holy, blameless, and without fault before him.
Col 1:23 However, you must remain firmly established and steadfast in the faith, without being moved from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
His faithfulness is revealed here. It goes with examine self to see if we are in the faith. Keep our faith level up, knowing that we can trust His Word; His keeping power.
Col 1:1 From: Paul, an apostle of the Messiah Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother.
Col 1:2 To: The holy and faithful brothers in Colossae who are in union with the Messiah. May grace and peace from God our Father be yours!
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Col 1:3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, praying always for you,
Col 1:4 because we have heard about your faith in the Messiah Jesus and the love that you have for all the saints,
Col 1:5 based on the hope laid up for you in heaven. Some time ago you heard about this hope through the word of truth, the gospel
Col 1:6 that has come to you. Just as it is bearing fruit and spreading all over the world, so it has been doing among you from the day you heard it and came to know the grace of God in truth.
Col 1:7 You learned about this gospel from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of the Messiah on your behalf.
Col 1:8 He has told us about your love in the Spirit.
Col 1:9 For this reason, since the day we heard about this, we have not stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the full knowledge of God's will with respect to all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
Col 1:10 so that you might live in a manner worthy of the Lord and be fully pleasing to him as you bear fruit while doing all kinds of good things and growing in the full knowledge of God.
Col 1:11 You are being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might, so that you might patiently endure everything with joy
Col 1:12 and might thank the Father, who has enabled us to share in the saints' inheritance in the light.
Col 1:13 God has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom he loves,
Col 1:14 through whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
The Preeminence of Christ
Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 He himself existed before anything else did, and he holds all things together.
Col 1:18 He is also the head of the body, which is the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself might have first place in everything.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all of his divine essence inhabit him.
Col 1:20 Through the Son, God also reconciled all things to himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, thereby making peace through the blood of his cross.
Col 1:21 You who were once alienated with a hostile attitude, doing evil,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled by the death of his physical body, so that he may present you holy, blameless, and without fault before him.
Col 1:23 However, you must remain firmly established and steadfast in the faith, without being moved from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
His faithfulness is revealed here. It goes with examine self to see if we are in the faith. Keep our faith level up, knowing that we can trust His Word; His keeping power.
I don't think you are doing reductionism, I know you are. you might not identify with the word, but that is what you are doing. and also, this belittling of others , like undergarce's husband because he does not agree with your interprataion of greek language is an argument tactic.
and I just looked at baker's evangelical dictionary of Biblical theology, and the connection of believe and faith. no mention of works. so, either identify the source you are referring to, or stop referring to it. I ain't playing your game. you are wrong till you provide a source about believe means works. and the Bible nor would the Holy Sprit ( the Sprit of truth )would confirm this disiformation.
and I just looked at baker's evangelical dictionary of Biblical theology, and the connection of believe and faith. no mention of works. so, either identify the source you are referring to, or stop referring to it. I ain't playing your game. you are wrong till you provide a source about believe means works. and the Bible nor would the Holy Sprit ( the Sprit of truth )would confirm this disiformation.
Last edited:
Don't you love Colossians 1:23?
I know I do.
Colossinas 1:6 looks pretty good too.
Colossians 1:9 Ditto. But you'd have to know what the knowledge of God's will is and you're not interested.
Colossians 1:10 is great.
Ditto for 1:11
Colossians 1:13 speaks of the Kingdom. But some here don't even know what that is.
Colossians 1:15 Wow. The Son is the image of God, who demands obedience. We should LISTEN to the SON!
Colossians 1:18 The first-born of what?
Colossians 1:21-22 I believe this is saying that we are to do GOOD WORKS.
Thanks for posting!!
I know I do.
Colossinas 1:6 looks pretty good too.
Colossians 1:9 Ditto. But you'd have to know what the knowledge of God's will is and you're not interested.
Colossians 1:10 is great.
Ditto for 1:11
Colossians 1:13 speaks of the Kingdom. But some here don't even know what that is.
Colossians 1:15 Wow. The Son is the image of God, who demands obedience. We should LISTEN to the SON!
Colossians 1:18 The first-born of what?
Colossians 1:21-22 I believe this is saying that we are to do GOOD WORKS.
Thanks for posting!!