Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I agree that this thread has all the evidence that one would need.
I like the quote
I think some of us have persisted so that those who are not members or weaker in the faith can see the error.
Perhaps it is time to call it a day
I like the quote
I think some of us have persisted so that those who are not members or weaker in the faith can see the error.
Perhaps it is time to call it a day
Paul considered himself foremost of sinners, present tense, 1 Timothy 1:15, and there is something to say about the application and reality of Matthew 5:3 in the hearts and lives of believers.
Your arguments sound like double talk.
So when Paul says that we are not saved by works/works of righteousness/our works in general, he merely means specific works of the law like circumcision? Is that what you are saying?
First you say I'm accusing you of doing something to make my point fit, now you are saying you don't agree with my post? More double talk.
I don't hear people say that works will save them "in place of faith" but I hear people say that we are saved by faith AND WORKS.
So when Paul says that we are not saved by works/works of righteousness/our works in general, he merely means specific works of the law like circumcision? Is that what you are saying?
First you say I'm accusing you of doing something to make my point fit, now you are saying you don't agree with my post? More double talk.
I don't hear people say that works will save them "in place of faith" but I hear people say that we are saved by faith AND WORKS.
Let me say this to make it clear as at least one shows disdain for this truth: Yes, grace is all we need, but not just any grace, God's grace. It is this grace that converts us and leads us to good works; Titus 2:11-15 &c.
God's grace is thus sufficient.
That said I don't find it a remarkable thing that some mitigate this, and then point to self immediately in its stead while mocking others. If you've ever read The Pilgrim's Progress you'd see that these types are the likes of Mr. Legality and Formality, two characters Christian met on his way to the Celestial City.
God's grace is thus sufficient.
That said I don't find it a remarkable thing that some mitigate this, and then point to self immediately in its stead while mocking others. If you've ever read The Pilgrim's Progress you'd see that these types are the likes of Mr. Legality and Formality, two characters Christian met on his way to the Celestial City.
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Yes I do see what you state and agree.
For me, if they are not fully persuaded that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast, then perhaps it is as you say conversion is not a reality.
It is interesting all the mental gymnastics that take place to not deny this truth, but then add to it covertly some type of work to maintain salvation.
For me, if they are not fully persuaded that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast, then perhaps it is as you say conversion is not a reality.
It is interesting all the mental gymnastics that take place to not deny this truth, but then add to it covertly some type of work to maintain salvation.