Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

Servants do not inherit the house. Only Sons.

Amen....

The son does remain forever in the house.


John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

 

[preacher4truth]

I've had 1611 visits to my page. Someone hit me up before I become KJVO.

 

[loveme1]

Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way which was a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest which is found in Christ Himself and this includes good works that are birthed from Christ's life within us)

I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. It also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.

John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus

If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”

In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.

Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.

But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.

Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.

"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.

It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.

How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.

I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."

Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.

A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.

What are the commands of Jesus?

The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”

They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.

But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.

If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:

“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)

And here’s the second:

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)

How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:

“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)

What does it mean to keep His commands?

Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:

“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)

How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)

Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:

“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”

If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.

So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!

When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!

Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying – He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.

That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!

Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/

Without believing I guess many walk away and decide to second guess the Messiah and create pieces like this in place of Truth.

You can keep the Commandments because GOD loves you and empowers you through Faith in the Messiah.


GOD forgive those who make lasciviousness of His Grace.

 

[preacher4truth]

does anyone here have any issues with this?

if so may i ask why?

The thief on the cross did bear fruit.

 

[Grace777x70]

I've had 1611 visits to my page. Someone hit me up before I become KJVO.

Gotcha!...that one made me laugh...good joke.

 

[Grace777x70]

Without believing I guess many walk away and decide to second guess the Messiah and create pieces like this in place of Truth.

You can keep the Commandments because GOD loves you and empowers you through Faith in the Messiah.


GOD forgive those who make lasciviousness of His Grace.

If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.

No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.

He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.

The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.

Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness.

Sins of the flesh are deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.

But sins of the flesh does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Only the willful sinning of unbelief in the sacrifice of Christ for sins is that sends people to hell and the lake of fire. The rejection of Christ Himself.

Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.

Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.

 

[Stephen63]

We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.

That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8

This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

None of these "good works" are good works at all unless they are done by faith.

That's one of the ways we live by faith.

We grow in faith by exercising our faith

We're called faithful because we live by faith.

Good, godly works the Spirit leads us to do is done by faith.

No person can call themselves a christian by simply talking, saying they have faith & believed once in Jesus thirty years ago & it's done.

Note the Scripture, with its context:

John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Role of the Spirit

16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 18“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19“After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. 20“In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

Isn't this plain enough?

Isn't Jesus' words good enough?

So is obedience of faith required, or not?

 

[loveme1]

If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.

No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.

He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.

The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.

Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.

Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.

You are deluded with these writings.. they are misleading....

 

[stonesoffire]

I used to believe the same thing, NNM, until I found out many of these "personal arguments" were all about the same thing in a nutshell.

Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?

They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.

Strange, isn't it?

Because se there is no other foundation than Jesus Christ Messiah. There is our unity. In Him. His Work we exalt and lift His Cross. Acceptance in the beloved. That love for the world that He paid for with blood. And yes, lm1 I love His blood sacrifice. His awesome love
Poured out for all mankind!

Worship Him! This is over our front door. A beautiful graphic declaration to our neighborhood.

autocorrect strikes again. Lol

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The thief on the cross did bear fruit.

the Holy spirit brought forth a repenting heart in him through his faith in Jesus, no?

i never said his fruits were bad

"Is it possible to get declaired righteous and make it into heaven with no good works? Ask the thief on the cross."


___________
whole post in context

Is it possible to recieve the indwelling Holy spirit, and recieve the gifts of the Holy spirit and see no evidence in your life? No.


Will your works earn salvation? No.

Is it possible to have been chosen by God and still choose sin even one time? Ask Noah.

Is it possible to get declaired righteous and make it into heaven with no good works? Ask the thief on the cross.

How do you know you know God? You obey him.


There are many who in their life time, have not recieved a tenth of the wisdom someone else may have, and by wisdom I mean understanding of who God is.

It seems to me, a faithful servant of God WALKING in the spirit and LIVING a life seeking Gods Will, will have many good works. (praise God for using us)


It seems to me not all in heaven have this luxery.... maybe an aborted baby.... maybe someone who is called to repentence on their death bed...


How about we glorify God as we should and stop focusing on OUR works.

If we are walking in the spirit, and put our faith in Jesus it will not be a dead faith..

 

[Grace777x70]

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

Notice here that even the law-keeping - good moral living priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


All people of all types are called to be "obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Being obedient to the faith is to believe in what Christ has done for life and living. it is all about Christ. His life in and through us will bear good fruit if we feed Christians the proper nutrients of His love and grace for them.

 

[joefizz]

just a reminder to anyone who is having a tough day, you can disagree with someone without getting angry or saying something insulting


and if someone is angry at you without just cause, take it as a chance to forgive them and do good to them that hate you

or to get on their nerves without trying,have a happy day while those who "hate" stay miserable,because what douses "hate" and can eventually extinguish it is "kindness" and staying "cheerful" and "compassionate".

 

[Grace777x70]

All Christians agree what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting the fruit of His life in us. The dis-connect comes when people talk about "how is this done".

Works-based belief systems use the Old Covenant mindset to try to effect transformation in Christians. Grace-based belief relies totally on the life and work of Christ in them to transform them by His love and grace towards us.

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

or to get on their nerves without trying,have a happy day while those who "hate" stay miserable,because what douses "hate" and can eventually extinguish it is "kindness" and staying "cheerful" and "compassionate".

mornin joefist
x'D

hope you are well in the Lord today

 

[Stephen63]

This is why I say body of Christ. No division. And we speak from our "heart".

Who's "we"?

We all speak from our hearts, whether righteousness or deceit.

"from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"

 

[Rosemaryx]

Your god is a very easy, greasy god. Just say you believe & it's done.

But not mine.....
Hebrews 10:29

ESV
26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hi Stephan...As i read this Scripture, i read it as a warning for those who are saved because verse 29 makes it clear that the Bible is stating this towards believers, and verse 30-The Lord will judge His people, and we are His people...I believe that there are many warnings that we must listen to, even though i know that i am saved through the Grace of God calling me to His Son, they should not be taken lightly by any of us who are walking in the Lord...xox...

 

[Grace777x70]

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

 

[Stephen63]

i agree again lol

this reminds me of our first convo this morning







i have tried many times to expose some of the lies and false doctrines here....


i dont think its possible unless the Holy spirit is working through us in our approach

I agree..... Still, that command means God wants us to do it.

 

[preacher4truth]

the Holy spirit brought forth a repenting heart in him through his faith in Jesus, no?

i never said his fruits were bad

"Is it possible to get declaired righteous and make it into heaven with no good works? Ask the thief on the cross."


what were HIS works?

Relax my brother, it was never stated that you said his fruit was bad. Not sure where you're getting that, maybe from hanging in the BDF Not of Works thread?

The thief preached Christ, that is one good work of his on the cross. Obviously in betwixt his deriding of Christ and his great confession he was regenerated by God. He made it plain he feared God, the beginning of wisdom. He believed in his just punishment for personal sin. He showed repentance and its fruits. He made an apologetic speech for the Christ. He preached the sinlessness of Christ. He believed in the eternal kingdom of Christ.

 

[stonesoffire]

I do not think the sinners prayer ever saved anyone, and I am sure most, if not all here agree with me.. . I believe repentance, which lead to true faith, which lead to someone calling on the name of the lord to be saved because they were broken, did save people.

I agree here. And the seed sower parable bears witness. We are always being drawn, but the time that the seed roots in our earth, we are born again.