Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

People may not have actually said and may have said "Your going to hell" but by inference words said have come across like this.

Now that may not be the intent but given the posts that I have read since I have been here I can see why people think that.
In fact at times I have felt some have been saying that to me because some feel I am a greasy gracer and greasy gracers will not inherit the kingdom.

I truly understand why those opposed to what they term greasy grace are concerned, even Paul had to address this in Romans.
But he addressed the true reason for and of Grace and why it should not be abused.

Having said that I have seen the same at times as well from the other side. People trying to earn/work their way to heaven won't make it.

To be honest I really don't like this, they say, they believe. This them and us mentality.
We are meant to be family and even families can be dysfunctional but we are family. Brothers and sisters in Christ.
Children of the Father being reconciled to him through Jesus.

Yes we have differences and each works out their salvation.
To me if one builds with stuff that is burned up but have faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins then as Paul says they will escape through the flames but still be saved.

I am not accusing anyone here just giving my observations and my thoughts.

Furthermore I would also say that we have regular contributors here, one would hope that we get to know a little bit about them.
In doing so we should know how to respond. We in a sense need to pick up on the little details of experiences that they share but can be easily missed.

If we do so maybe things would be better.

Sometimes we come to forums with baggage from the past. And no matter what is said...until the baggage is taken away, they can't hear. The past speaks too loud.

Happens a lot. Happened to me in another forum, and then took time off to work through it.

Otherwise, how would I know? Experience is a good teacher, but it hurts our flesh. Then we identify with His death again and subsequent resurrection.

I don't want to be beating air all my life. And am sure nobody else does either.

 

[stonesoffire]

tell me when or if you recieve your glorified body will you boast and say i told you so to everyone or will you just be thankfull... or will you secretly inside think your a cut above everyone else..

Please don't mistake confidence in the Lord with a boastful prideful spirit. This is accusation and you don't know my life, or my heart.

 

[JIMBO43]

Bible verse please; since when are God's children in danger of fire, from a Father where by we call out; "Abba, daddy."

John 15:6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies;

 

[JIMBO43]

Please don't mistake confidence in the Lord with a boastful prideful spirit. This is accusation and you don't know my life, or my heart.

no i wasnt trying to do that.. i was trying to make you see that no one has the right to claim theyve recieved there completion of salvation.... it goes against everything that is written and also suggests a prideful manor...

 

[Magenta]

no i wasnt trying to do that.. i was trying to make you see that no one has the right to claim theyve recieved there completion of salvation.... it goes against everything that is written and also suggests a prideful manor...

We can know we are saved and it is Biblically supported to come to this knowledge.

 

[UnderGrace]

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you

were sealed in Him with the promised Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13

[FONT=&quot]Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.

When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Holy Spirit likewise seals to [FONT=&quot]indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation
[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The seal is not something that is opened or closed it is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]To believe that God removes the signature/seal or has never placed the signature/seal is to question the integrity of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

no one will lose salvation because of one thing only and that is you and everyone here have not recieved there completion of salvation.. you can not lose something that hasnt been given to you yet... this is the one and only reason why no one can lose there salvation untill the lord returns...

The promise of salvation is God saying he will not break his promise to those who do all the wonderfull requirments he requires from his students..

1 protect innocence..

2 allways be slow to anger and eager to know the truth with patience and kindness..

3 the lord wants kindness and love from us..

4 the lords requires we obey...

5 the lord reqires we love each other..

6 the lord requires us not to do the work of satan..


all thees are requirements of his standards that he pours out through his grace.. this is a rich blessing and keeps the believer hoping for salvation and also keeps the believer from disobeying in the lords absence.... this is what is ment by continue to work out your salvatio..


to continue to work out your salvation ,,, means you must be Good in your own set of walls in your private dwelling.. which is also an instruction..


to continue to work out your salvation does not mean you can preach youve fully recieved it... salvation is and allways will be a process that leads to a once in a life time event of recieving your new glorified body,, where by you will be able to walk in the garden of eden once more... but untill we recieve our glorified bodies we will never be allowed in his Garden of eden... we can only commune in spirit... blessings to you

 

[Limey410v2]

ok...maybe someone else can explain this better.

I'm not fully up on what you and Jimbo are talking about. But I hope this verse helps.

Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Saved occurs once we accept Him into our hearts and our lives. (Lost is spiritual death, we are found and saved from that)

Salvation is what occurs at that moment. Surely it it something we will understand more fully later when we die physically but remain alive spiritually.

Yet we are now at this time resurrected in Spirit, yet we still live in our fleshly bodies.

Resurrection (old man dies, new man is born, or new creation) occurs at the time of salvation, when we receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit. Before that we are just really a bunch of dead people walking around.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I believe we are to walk each day that the Lord blesses us with...We all need to strip ourselves daily from the pride that we hold on to, none of us are perfect...We can wake up in the morning and praise the Lord, and respond to people with the evil in our heart, let us not forget, NO ONE IS GOOD...I have been in this thread long enough to know of those who spit Scripture out of their mouth, believing that this will keep them secure, am sure many of you have looked and thought REALLY...Yes we are are secure in Christ if we FOLLOW Him, not just assuming what the pharisees assumes, for they knew Scripture of by heart...I think everyone on this thread KNOWS that WORKS do not keep us saved, but we are to do the works that our Lord commands , hence James saying, Faith without works is dead...I have not seen one person say that works is before Salvation, but i have seen many post say that works is indeed required, not FLESHLY works, there is a difference...Yes we are commanded to work unto the Lord, God forbid should we end up like the SLOTH in the book of Solomon ...I get a feeling that this thread has come to it`s end, God did say " A time for every season "...I love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ, not let us dogs return to to our vomit, let us all ALL be the PEARLS in the Kingdom, for it is ours for those who will follow to the calling of our LORD Jesus Christ...xox...

 

[BillG]

Sometimes we come to forums with baggage from the past. And no matter what is said...until the baggage is taken away, they can't hear. The past speaks too loud.

Happens a lot. Happened to me in another forum, and then took time off to work through it.

Otherwise, how would I know? Experience is a good teacher, but it hurts our flesh. Then we identify with His death again and subsequent resurrection.

I don't want to be beating air all my life. And am sure nobody else does either.

People do come here with baggage, no doubt about it.
Some guard it but some reveal it.
If they guard it we won't hear it, but if they reveal we should hear it.
A good teacher will listen before responding.
I have seen some of your posts where you have said "not sure I can help but I suggest" To me a sign of a good teacher.
I have seen some of your posts where you have tried to help because you have experienced it as well. Also another sign of a good teacher.

I am saying the above because I do think you are a good teacher and I do look out for your posts.

If we all continually look to the greatest teacher ever then he will teach us, his love his wisdom his words and his responses.

I do think at times if Jesus was in the middle of this thread what would he say and then I say to myself.
"Jesus you are here, you are in us let us act accordingly to your will"

 

[stonesoffire]

He took offense at my saying ...we are saved, being saved, and will be saved.

That's it.

 

[Meggido]

I'm not fully up on what you and Jimbo are talking about. But I hope this verse helps.

Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Saved occurs once we accept Him into our hearts and our lives. (Lost is spiritual death, we are found and saved from that)

Salvation is what occurs at that moment. Surely it it something we will understand more fully later when we die physically but remain alive spiritually.

Yet we are now at this time resurrected in Spirit, yet we still live in our fleshly bodies.

Resurrection (old man dies, new man is born, or new creation) occurs at the time of salvation, when we receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit. Before that we are just really a bunch of dead people walking around.

Is there a difference between the lost and unbelieving?

Jesus did not come to seek and to save the unbelieving...he came to seek and to save those who were lost....

I believe the lost are our prodigals in the body today, who have left church due to being inflicted by commendation, judgement, hate, hurt/offense and a myriad of issues...I also believe the lost are who have fallen to both legalistic and lascivious false teachings....and have not realized the power of truth and grace....

I believe the unbelieving are just that...unbelieving and they and their condition is described in Romans 1. I love those people and let the Holy Spirit work on them....

 

[Magenta]

I think everyone on this thread KNOWS that WORKS do not keep us saved

That is pretty much the opposite of what some here say

For they do say that works keep one saved.

 

[stonesoffire]

People do come here with baggage, no doubt about it.
Some guard it but some reveal it.
If they guard it we won't hear it, but if they reveal we should hear it.
A good teacher will listen before responding.
I have seen some of your posts where you have said "not sure I can help but I suggest" To me a sign of a good teacher.
I have seen some of your posts where you have tried to help because you have experienced it as well. Also another sign of a good teacher.

I am saying the above because I do think you are a good teacher and I do look out for your posts.

If we all continually look to the greatest teacher ever then he will teach us, his love his wisdom his words and his responses.

I do think at times if Jesus was in the middle of this thread what would he say and then I say to myself.
"Jesus you are here, you are in us let us act accordingly to your will"

Totally agree here. And am sure there were times too that I was exasperated...just like a bit of it now. Not at you though.

 

[Magenta]

Is there a difference between the lost and unbelieving?

Jesus did not come to seek and to save the unbelieving...
he came to seek and to save those who were lost....

God desires that all come to repentance to believe and to be saved

It was how Jesus started His earthly ministry, by calling people to repentance and belief.

 

[JIMBO43]

theese guys here are real deal too.. lets look..[video=youtube;jWCurboLtF8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWCurboLtF8[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People may not have actually said and may have said "Your going to hell" but by inference words said have come across like this.

Now that may not be the intent but given the posts that I have read since I have been here I can see why people think that.
In fact at times I have felt some have been saying that to me because some feel I am a greasy gracer and greasy gracers will not inherit the kingdom.

I truly understand why those opposed to what they term greasy grace are concerned, even Paul had to address this in Romans.
But he addressed the true reason for and of Grace and why it should not be abused.

Having said that I have seen the same at times as well from the other side. People trying to earn/work their way to heaven won't make it.

To be honest I really don't like this, they say, they believe. This them and us mentality.
We are meant to be family and even families can be dysfunctional but we are family. Brothers and sisters in Christ.
Children of the Father being reconciled to him through Jesus.

Yes we have differences and each works out their salvation.
To me if one builds with stuff that is burned up but have faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins then as Paul says they will escape through the flames but still be saved.

I am not accusing anyone here just giving my observations and my thoughts.

Furthermore I would also say that we have regular contributors here, one would hope that we get to know a little bit about them.
In doing so we should know how to respond. We in a sense need to pick up on the little details of experiences that they share but can be easily missed.

If we do so maybe things would be better.

Can I ask you a question without you being offended brother?

Lets say this group believe we are saved by grace alone, that those who have true faith are saved, and they will do works, because they are saved.

The other group says salvation is of works, or at the least, maintained by works (Insinuating in fact that in the end, salvation is of works)

They both have different gospels. Yet paul says if anyone teach any gospel which is different in any aspect. (even if an angel of heaven did this) they are to be accursed.

how can both people be headed to heaven, But defult only one would make it, Would it not be prudent to not
1. Make sure we have the right gospel
2. Warn others that they need to find the right gospel
3. At the most. Not enable a person by saying they are ok, they are going to heaven too (which causes scriptural issues.)

by the word. One of us is wrong, By default, when they call me a greasy grace, they are declaring I am headed to hell (because if they are right, by fact, I am wrong) and vice versa, If I am declaring them to be preaching salvation by works, then by default, I am stating Scripture says they are not saved.

so the argument alone says one group or the other are headed to hell. unless (in the view of grace alone) a person was already saved and got run down by legalism.

About all we can do then is agree to disagree, personally, But we will still be speaking the truth about what we believe, which will offend and by defult come across as condemning the other.

so where are we left if all these things are true?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi all...I believe we are to walk each day that the Lord blesses us with...We all need to strip ourselves daily from the pride that we hold on to, none of us are perfect...We can wake up in the morning and praise the Lord, and respond to people with the evil in our heart, let us not forget, NO ONE IS GOOD...I have been in this thread long enough to know of those who spit Scripture out of their mouth, believing that this will keep them secure, am sure many of you have looked and thought REALLY...Yes we are are secure in Christ if we FOLLOW Him, not just assuming what the pharisees assumes, for they knew Scripture of by heart...I think everyone on this thread KNOWS that WORKS do not keep us saved, but we are to do the works that our Lord commands , hence James saying, Faith without works is dead...I have not seen one person say that works is before Salvation, but i have seen many post say that works is indeed required, not FLESHLY works, there is a difference...Yes we are commanded to work unto the Lord, God forbid should we end up like the SLOTH in the book of Solomon ...I get a feeling that this thread has come to it`s end, God did say " A time for every season "...I love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ, not let us dogs return to to our vomit, let us all ALL be the PEARLS in the Kingdom, for it is ours for those who will follow to the calling of our LORD Jesus Christ...xox...

No, this is not true. Many say almost every day works keep us saved. That is no different than saying works save us,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God desires that all come to repentance to believe and to be saved

It was how Jesus started His earthly ministry, by calling people to repentance and belief.

Amen, the unbelieving are lost. The goal of repentance is to CHANGE us from a state of unbelief, to a state of belief.

Until we change states, we are lost.

 

[JIMBO43]

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you

were sealed in Him with the promised Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13

Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.

When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author


The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation


The seal is not something that is opened or closed it is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief.


To believe that God removes the signature/seal or has never placed the signature/seal is to question the integrity of God

sealed and connected amen...

question for you if i may get an answer has your salvation been completed yet ? ...

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi all...I believe we are to walk each day that the Lord blesses us with...We all need to strip ourselves daily from the pride that we hold on to, none of us are perfect...We can wake up in the morning and praise the Lord, and respond to people with the evil in our heart, let us not forget, NO ONE IS GOOD...I have been in this thread long enough to know of those who spit Scripture out of their mouth, believing that this will keep them secure, am sure many of you have looked and thought REALLY...Yes we are are secure in Christ if we FOLLOW Him, not just assuming what the pharisees assumes, for they knew Scripture of by heart...I think everyone on this thread KNOWS that WORKS do not keep us saved, but we are to do the works that our Lord commands , hence James saying, Faith without works is dead...I have not seen one person say that works is before Salvation, but i have seen many post say that works is indeed required, not FLESHLY works, there is a difference...Yes we are commanded to work unto the Lord, God forbid should we end up like the SLOTH in the book of Solomon ...I get a feeling that this thread has come to it`s end, God did say " A time for every season "...I love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ, not let us dogs return to to our vomit, let us all ALL be the PEARLS in the Kingdom, for it is ours for those who will follow to the calling of our LORD Jesus Christ...xox...

I'm sorry Rosemary, but I think you have slipped into judging and condemnation. We live out of the new creation not the old nature. I believe it's just a matter of being new in the faith.