Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

We must be wary of the "work" of trying to persuade or convince others.

That's where a relationship with the Spirit of Freedom comes in. We respond to Him, we don't react to them or what they say. He sets the agenda in His Kingdom.

Ok. I see what you mean. That may be a fault I have. Well blimey! *my English roots*

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Absolutely.......

so what causes positional sanctification, and what empowers conditional?

 

[preacher4truth]

You do have control of your finger right....go to a different thread and never come back...it is a simple solution....!!!

Agreed!!! Troll elsewhere.

 

[Limey410v2]

The golden chain of redemption includes all phases to the believer as accomplished;

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:29-30

But let's be careful here in saying this is not complete (though I get what you mean but wish to clarify). It is complete, but the believer has not yet personally experienced this in eternity.

"Glorified" here is in the active voice, meaning the one stating this has already accomplished this. God has already completed this action - it cannot be undone.

Furthermore, the predestining, the calling, the justifying, the glorification -- each of these terms are in the same exact tense. The preceding context goes on to show the impossibility of these things being undone. It is as impossible for a person to lose His salvation as it is for God's Word to lie.

Amen, it can be difficult for our chronological minds to grasp, that while God is actively participating in our day to day lives, He has already authored it all to completion.

 

[UnderGrace]

"Not by works" is always a worthy discussion and should never be stop because it speaks to

the very heart of the gospel,

it needs to be always in focus

for those new in the walk,

those not so new in the walk and

those not yet convinced. IMHO

You do have control of your finger right....go to a different thread and never come back...it is a simple solution....!!!

 

[willybob]

This does not negate anything I posted....and a given truth.

Did Jesus chase after the young rich ruler, his hometown or the Pharisee's and Sadducee's <<<<<These were the unbelieving....

The ones that Jesus preached, taught, healed, delivered and manifested himself to were the lost...this would include the original 82 and many others....

We need to be less spiritual and more real....It may be God's desire and will for all to come into repentance, but that does not translate to mean, all will take the free gift....or that Jesus ministered to everyone, because in reality he did not...and the closer he got to the cross, the more the multitudes stopped listening....

It was not JESUS....it was BARABBAS.....they were shouting.......

they are still chanting give us Barabbas today...it means give us our sins that we might be satisfied, and away with the holiness of this Man who says we MUST live holy.....Jesus said go and sin no more, but to many it seems He said go and sin some more......if Jesus preached the popular greasy grace gospel of today they never would have killed Him, but rather flocked around Him by the multitudes praising Him and showering Him with gifts................be blessed

 

[Meggido]

they are still chanting give us Barabbas today...it means give us our sins that we mat be satisfied, and away with the holiness of this Man who says we MUST live holy.....Jesus said go and sin no more, but to many it seems He said go and sin some more......if Jesus preached the popular greasy grace gospel of today they never would have killed Him, but rather flocked around Him by the multitudes praising Him and showering Him with gifts................be blessed

Agreed.........

 

[Magenta]

You are getting challenged and now getting spiritual....

LOL. It is you who are being challenged. Jesus came to seek and save the lost, saying whosoever will. Are you a Calvinist?

 

[PeterJens]

People do come here with baggage, no doubt about it.
Some guard it but some reveal it.
If they guard it we won't hear it, but if they reveal we should hear it.
A good teacher will listen before responding.
I have seen some of your posts where you have said "not sure I can help but I suggest" To me a sign of a good teacher.
I have seen some of your posts where you have tried to help because you have experienced it as well. Also another sign of a good teacher.

I am saying the above because I do think you are a good teacher and I do look out for your posts.

If we all continually look to the greatest teacher ever then he will teach us, his love his wisdom his words and his responses.

I do think at times if Jesus was in the middle of this thread what would he say and then I say to myself.
"Jesus you are here, you are in us let us act accordingly to your will"

It struck me today, how easily we can draw conclusions, take offence, see a vulnerability and
stomp on it. This arena gives people a voice, an opportunity, which otherwise they might not have.
It is easy for hours to pass 10 or 20 posts, but to what effect? If we saw the only contributions that
matter help others, not just speak our position.

Jesus was always quiet and then succinct. I often suffer from exploring, maybe not enough listening.

I am aware many feel Jesus will listen to them because He loves them though they are completely
compromised. Where is scripture are willingly compromised people blessed by God? The only people
who God talks with are those who know were they are but are prepared to follow and go Gods way.

Nothing I have read or argued has moved me from this, rather the opposite.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

they are still chanting give us Barabbas today...it means give us our sins that we might be satisfied, and away with the holiness of this Man who says we MUST live holy.....Jesus said go and sin no more, but to many it seems He said go and sin some more......if Jesus preached the popular greasy grace gospel of today they never would have killed Him, but rather flocked around Him by the multitudes praising Him and showering Him with gifts................be blessed

you know it is funny, his thread almost got closed yesterday and someone got banned and yet here you and one or two others are still bashing others, and slandering them with false truths,

either show where people have said it is ok to sin all we want, or do like a few have said to one your brothers and get out, we no longer wish to speak to people who want to do nothing but attack others.

 

[Magenta]

you know it is funny, his thread almost got closed yesterday

It was actually locked for a short time

 

[Limey410v2]

"Not by works" is always a worthy discussion and should never be stop because it speaks to

the very heart of the gospel,

it needs to be always in focus

for those new in the walk,

those not so new in the walk and

those not yet convinced. IMHO

Yes it is, because people get trapped in to the "am I doing enough, am I living properly, am I obeying enough, oh my I messed up, what an idiot I am..." the repent, obey, sin, repent, obey sin cycle, questioning themselves constantly, and that makes them think that God can't really love them as much as they originally were told.

Yet if we fully embrace His full forgiveness, and accept His Grace and Mercy, we can start to walk in His love.

We focus more on Him, and less on sin (us), and we all of a sudden understand the peace that comes from true rest.

We can then have a relationship based on love and trust. Because we know that He really does love us, so much, and does not hold our sin against us.

Not because of rules, or commandments, or laws, or church ordinances, or doctrine, or theology.

It is because of His love for us.

We start to listen more, we start to hear from Him more, we start to understand more. And before you know it we are sinning less, and doing the work (yes I said work) that He started in us.

Not because we think that if we don't we will go to hell, but because that is His desire for us.

That to me is what it means to live in the Spirit.

 

[preacher4truth]

they are still chanting give us Barabbas today..

No one here believes this or says this, yet your straw man facilitates your Luke 18:9-11 self-righteousness.

..be blessed

Uh-huh...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was actually locked for a short time

I know, and as we see, the same stuff is happening, we need to either put a stop to it, or ignore the people who keep doing it, it has been peaceful today, I am sure we have all appreciated it.

 

[willybob]

you know it is funny, his thread almost got closed yesterday and someone got banned and yet here you and one or two others are still bashing others, and slandering them with false truths,

either show where people have said it is ok to sin all we want, or do like a few have said to one your brothers and get out, we no longer wish to speak to people who want to do nothing but attack others.

you mean like the ones who slander Job and Daniel and say they were just sinners?

 

[Oncefallen]

i wonder who was spamming reports

Most likely, not who you think.

Thats a shame she was, if thats going to be the case i know a couple people who shouldve been banned instead.

When someone is intentionally being contentious with the agenda (publicly stated) of getting a thread closed they leave me little choice. It's bad enough when people get hot under the collar and respond rudely within a thread but by exponentially worse (IMO) when someone does it intentionally.

 

[preacher4truth]

you mean like the ones who slander Job and Daniel and say they were just sinners?

No, he meant when you slander others on here. Perpetually. I thought he was quite clear on that.

 

[PeterJens]

IMO - The area of contention is not really works per se - that is a smoke screen for the real issue - it's the belief that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell for not doing good works.

This is the outcome of "doing good works to be saved or to keep being saved". This is an anti-Christ belief system.

Got to laugh. If you know the bible and how many people have died thinking like this,
you have to be blind, deaf and dumb to continue to suggest anyone is open to being
judged for sin.

Moses, Peter are just two example of friends who failed. Korah and Ananias and Saphira
both went too far.

How is it when God is so clear, people want always to benefits without the price.
Oh, that has always been the way of sin, get something before you should.

 

[preacher4truth]

Most likely, not who you think.



When someone is intentionally being contentious with the agenda (publicly stated) of getting a thread closed they leave me little choice. It's bad enough when people get hot under the collar and respond rudely within a thread but by exponentially worse (IMO) when someone does it intentionally.

Well, I think the mods here are pretty lenient and I mean that in a good way.

 

[Cee]

Salvation to me is important because it's the doorway into which we begin to understand by the Spirit.

Putting works in front of salvation is an issue to me because it puts our focus on the wrong things.

Things that ultimately don't produce the fruit our Lord desires.

If we can't accept we are a new creation by faith, where will the Lord build upon us?

If we can't agree with truths of who we are in the Spirit, how will we be able to walk with Him?

These topics to me are elementary principles, but so critical because once we accept them, we can begin to walk in the Kingdom of God which is through relationship with His Spirit.