The Meaning Of The Parable Of Tares
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The great tribulation described in Revelation is nothing whatsoever to do with the tribulation described by Jesus in the Temple Prophecies
Stay Blessed too RDBD
Stay Blessed too RDBD
J7, you don't believe in the tribulation?
Revelation 7:
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Jesus spoke of the great tribulation:
Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Have a blessed day, J7.
I believe in the bible from cover to cover.
Strange question if you don't mind my saying
Not reslly
while HE is in the world HE convicts the world of sin
but
"when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way"
Evil will have full reign
CHRIST said. Walk while you have the LIGHT lest darkness come and Ye bevovercone
darkness is coming because there's another ministry coming
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The fact that you have a quirky understanding of this passage is not evidence that I disbelieve the Bible [/FONT]
Jesus did not say "all things that offend", another poor KJV interpretation:
Matt 13:41 the Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the un-lawlessness,
I suggest the ones who were the stumbling blocks were the unbelieving Jews and the Sanhedrin.
Matt 13:41 the Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the un-lawlessness,
I suggest the ones who were the stumbling blocks were the unbelieving Jews and the Sanhedrin.
Good spot Locutus
Skandalon - stumbling blocks, things that cause to offend; any person or thing by which one is (entrapped) drawn into error or sin
Romans 16:
17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to keep an eye on those who cause dissensions and offenses, in opposition to the teaching that you have learned; avoid them. 18 For such people do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise in what is good and guileless in what is evil. 20 The God of peace will shortly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
So how do Satanists cause Christians to stumble? For instance: false doctrines, skewed translations, doctrinal schisms.
Skandalon - stumbling blocks, things that cause to offend; any person or thing by which one is (entrapped) drawn into error or sin
Romans 16:
17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to keep an eye on those who cause dissensions and offenses, in opposition to the teaching that you have learned; avoid them. 18 For such people do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise in what is good and guileless in what is evil. 20 The God of peace will shortly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
So how do Satanists cause Christians to stumble? For instance: false doctrines, skewed translations, doctrinal schisms.
Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
The words "that offend" are translated from the Greek word skandalon which means:
.
properly, the trigger of a trap (the mechanism closing a trap down on the unsuspecting victim); (figuratively) an offense, putting a negative cause-and-effect relationship into motion.
4625 /skándalon ("the means of stumbling") stresses the method (means) of entrapment, i.e. how someone is caught by their own devices (like their personal bias, carnal thinking).
["4625 (skándalon) is the native rock rising up through the earth, which trips up the traveler, hence, of Jesus the Messiah, to the Jews who refused him" (Souter); "properly, the bait-stick of a trap, a snare, stumbling-block" (Abbott-Smith); "the stick in the trap that springs and closes the trap when the animal touches it" (WP, 1, 46).]
HELPS[SUP]TM[/SUP] Word-studies
copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.
4625 /skándalon ("the means of stumbling") stresses the method (means) of entrapment, i.e. how someone is caught by their own devices (like their personal bias, carnal thinking).
["4625 (skándalon) is the native rock rising up through the earth, which trips up the traveler, hence, of Jesus the Messiah, to the Jews who refused him" (Souter); "properly, the bait-stick of a trap, a snare, stumbling-block" (Abbott-Smith); "the stick in the trap that springs and closes the trap when the animal touches it" (WP, 1, 46).]
HELPS[SUP]TM[/SUP] Word-studies
copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.
Interesting, Locutus.
When addressing the word "first" in first resurrection, most believers mistake this to mean the only one when it is simply stating that this resurrection is happening first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on. First resurrection is not stating the only resurrection to have occurred. Please note when first resurrection is mentioned and how in verse 5.
Revelation 20:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So the use of the phrase "first resurrection" in verse 5 was to defer from the rest of teh dead that was supposed to be resurrected later on. That is all it was saying "first" for was that resurrection of those saints that went through the great tribulation will be resurrected first before the rest of the dead shall be resurrected later on at the great white throne judgment.
Please note in Revelation 20th chapter that Satan has been defeated along with the world's armies and he has been cast into the pit for a thousand years when this supposed "first resurrection" which many claims to be the only resurrection after Jesus to have had occurred.
BUT in Zephaniah 14:1-5, we have Jesus coming back with the saints to do battle with the world's armies at Jerusalem as He sets foot on the Mount of Olives, splitting that mountain in two. So we have Jesus touching down on the earth with the saints.
The fact that Satan has been cast into the pit for a thousand years at the beginning of Revelation 20, means the battle is over and Jesus is on earth; not in the clouds when those that went through the great tribulation are signified as being resurrected first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the great white throne judgment.
So those saints that went through the great tribulation as described significantly in Revelation 20:4 as the ones being resurrected "first" before the rest of the dead did not accompany Christ in the air when the Lord did battle with the armies at Jerusalem.
So that is proof that first resurrection was not inferring the only one but deferring that resurrection of those saints that specifically went through the great tribulation to happen first before the rest of the dead were to be resurrected at the great white throne judgment.
John 5:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: andthey that hear shall live.[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,[SUP] 29 [/SUP]And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This is pertaining to God judging His House at the pre trib rapture event because verse 24 sets the precedent as being about saved believers. You can't have Him saying they that hear shall live in verse 25 if it was including unsaved unbelievers.
The resurrection of life is the first resurrection as vessels unto honor where they will be like the angels that never die as they will have a mansion in our Father's House above.
The resurrection of damnation are the vessels unto dishonor that did not look to Him to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race to depart from iniquity in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. They do not have a mansion in the Father's House; they are not like the angels that never die.... they will be allowed to marry and be given in marriage... as they will serve the King of kings on earth as placed all over the world in raising up the generations coming out of the milleniel reign of Christ. Only the power of the second death will not be over them that are resurrected out of the great tribulation.
There is a celestial glory ( vessels unto honor ) and then there is a terrestrial glory ( vessels unto dishonor ). That is how you rectify the resurrection unto damnation as those who hear His voice shall live.
I have yet to read and discern by Him how you are applying this. God be willing, I shall return.
The scripture did not use to have numbered chapters and numbered verses. That was added later on. With that in mind, Revelation is not in chronological order. The events in Revelation 18th chapter is giving a detail account of what had happened at the fall of Babylon as declared by the second angel in Revelation 14:8 of the 3 angels that are setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.
Given that knowledge, when I am reading Revelations 11 th chapter< I am seeing events that will happen midway the great tribulation when those two witnesses are called up.
From what I have been able to discern by Him, He is still in Heaven after calling up the 2 witnesses midway in the great tribulation. He has not on earth to establish His milleniel reign as of yet, being how it is about halfway thru the great tribulation.
So when I read on down to verses 14 & 15, I do wonder if there is a shift in the topic or event again within that chapter.
Revelation 11:[SUP]14 [/SUP]The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Anyway... per my example of Revelation 18 describing in detail what happened after the first angel spread the everlasting gospel when the second angel announced the fall of Babylon in Revelation 14:8, I would have to say that the events within the chapter of Revelation 11 may have taken another turn between verse 14 & 15 once again as verse 15 is referring to the pre trib rapture event when the last trump; the seventh trump was blown.
Note how everything in reference is in Heaven still... and the reward is giving to those that are His, small & great; the great being in Heaven as vessels unto honor and the small still in the earth..to receive their terrestrial inheritance after the great tribulation.
Revelation 11:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,[SUP] 17 [/SUP]Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
So I do not see how you are applying it when the temple of God was opened in Heaven and the 24 elders were before God worshipping Him... in Heaven. The 24 elders citing His right to rule and judge the world are saying this to Him in Heaven.
Revelation 12 th chapter also touches on the pre trib rapture event when the door to the Marriage Supper is shut, Satan is cast down to earth, so that the accuser of our brethren will not interrupt the celebration in Heaven. So the "inhabitants of Heaven" will rejoice at that time and woe for those left behind for the devil know he has little time left.
Revelation 12:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Anyway... as out of order as the Book of Revelation is... it does takes wisdom from the Lord to see the message in how to apply them rightly ....
He cannot be beginning to exercise His rule when He is still in Heaven; it was the 24 elders that said that to Him about His right to reward His servants and to rule the world with His wrath, BUT God is still in Heaven when they said that to Him.
Oh sure HE can
and will exercise HIS ruke
even in Heaven
didnt HE use Satan to accomplish His Will regarding "the woman in the basket"
and no one will be missing who is meant to be celebrating the marriage supper
just as revelation 19 states
further HE will call out of "Babylon" HIS by saying come out of her my people and touch not the unclean thing
Remember?
ill find the scriptures
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HE is exercising HIS rule from heaven...
And can...
HE does not have to be here physically to begin pouring out HIS WRATH upon the inhabitants of the earth..
Revelation 17
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.The Victory of the Lamb14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Revelation 18
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
And can...
HE does not have to be here physically to begin pouring out HIS WRATH upon the inhabitants of the earth..
Revelation 17
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.The Victory of the Lamb14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Revelation 18
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
There's an issue only in this Enow...
Those who die IN THE LORD from now on...
If one who dies is NOT IN THE LORD, he isn't going to be raised until after the 1000 year reign...
Those who die, after the great tribulation, who did not die in the LORD, are identified in Revelation 20 as the rest of the dead...they are those who DID NOT have a part in the first resurrection...
Those who die IN THE LORD from now on...
If one who dies is NOT IN THE LORD, he isn't going to be raised until after the 1000 year reign...
Those who die, after the great tribulation, who did not die in the LORD, are identified in Revelation 20 as the rest of the dead...they are those who DID NOT have a part in the first resurrection...
Yes, and this week I have bruised my heel twice on ligneous extrusions, (and caught a few sharp stones)
Genesis 3 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The serpent of course is the liar, who distorts the Truth, the Word Of God, which was his first act in the Garden
The battle in Jesus's time was with the Oral Tradition, (which later became the Talmud), hence the religious leaders were 'of the father of lies' insofar as they distorted, falsified, and added to the Word Of God.
The battle in Jesus's time was with the Oral Tradition, (which later became the Talmud), hence the religious leaders were 'of the father of lies' insofar as they distorted, falsified, and added to the Word Of God.
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I don't know how I missed this post, but I did
i was wondering if you read all of revelation 20 and all of John 5 before you came back and posted your opinion?
Because it doesn't sound as if you did
Enow, Can you please expound John 5;19 through John 5;24.
Also, can you please expound this in light of John 3:18 John 11:25-26, and 1 John 5:4-5.
I was wondering if you believe that those who believe in HIM have LIFE and will not come under condemnation?
Or do you believe that HE wasn't speaking THE TRUTH...and we misunderstood HIM?
Also, can you please expound this in light of John 3:18 John 11:25-26, and 1 John 5:4-5.
I was wondering if you believe that those who believe in HIM have LIFE and will not come under condemnation?
Or do you believe that HE wasn't speaking THE TRUTH...and we misunderstood HIM?
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Enow,
You'll have to clarify a bit more with regards to those saints who will be raised in the first resurrection from those who will be coming with the Lord to do battle.
Thanks...
Because I can't make out what you are saying.
You have the saints who have a part in the first resurrection, reigning with HIM...and you say these are only those who went through the tribulation...who were martyred because they held to THEIR TESTIMONY of JESUS...
And you do not include in with these particular first resurrection saints identified in Revelation 20 any other believer, (as John 3, John 5, and 1 John 5 identifies as believers)
So...while these saints are reigning with HIM during the 1000 year reign, you have HIS other saints as the rest of the dead?
Where then do you place the battle?
Before or after the 1000 year reign?
You'll have to clarify a bit more with regards to those saints who will be raised in the first resurrection from those who will be coming with the Lord to do battle.
Thanks...
Because I can't make out what you are saying.
You have the saints who have a part in the first resurrection, reigning with HIM...and you say these are only those who went through the tribulation...who were martyred because they held to THEIR TESTIMONY of JESUS...
And you do not include in with these particular first resurrection saints identified in Revelation 20 any other believer, (as John 3, John 5, and 1 John 5 identifies as believers)
So...while these saints are reigning with HIM during the 1000 year reign, you have HIS other saints as the rest of the dead?
Where then do you place the battle?
Before or after the 1000 year reign?
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I was under the impression that you had meant He was on earth exercising His rule in beginning His milleniel reign on earth in Revelation 11 th chapter.
But yes, He is reigning from Heaven, but He was not beginning that reign in Heaven in Revelation 11th chapter when He always has been.
I think it was your use of "beginning His reign" that threw me off on what you had meant.
In any event, Revelation 11:15 cites the seventh & last trump which I believe is being blown at the pre trib rapture event as the same time the other six trumpets are blown in rapid succession if not as one trump, in changing the world as we know it in judging what is to happen for the duration of the great tribulation on the earth.