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True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.
Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13
It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action that they did at one time.
Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.
Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.
James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.
We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.
Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.
James talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need.
Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13
It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action that they did at one time.
Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.
Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.
James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.
We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.
Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.
James talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need.
This is such a great post!
I know a guy once that said he had “good works” he opens doors for ladies, yet he was cheating on his wife and smoking dope… he actually said to me he would go to heaven because of his works. Sad. See the problem with works is this. Works is so subjective.
Salvation by faith is this it is objective. Only one thing and one thing only (or someone) makes people saved! Y-shua! And that is faith that He is Atonement for my/our sin.
There are many people that do-good works to get to their “heaven”. All the words religions rely on works for their promised “heaven” but ONE. CHRISTIANITY! It all rises and falls on Y-shua. Even Paul said if the resurrection was not real then we are to be men most pitted. Then our good works follow. What great news! It is so different! So, refreshing! Salvation is based on a living person then good works follow! Not a dead man and you better do enough good works that beats out Billy Graham, Mother Tressa, or even Y-shua!!!!
I know a guy once that said he had “good works” he opens doors for ladies, yet he was cheating on his wife and smoking dope… he actually said to me he would go to heaven because of his works. Sad. See the problem with works is this. Works is so subjective.
Salvation by faith is this it is objective. Only one thing and one thing only (or someone) makes people saved! Y-shua! And that is faith that He is Atonement for my/our sin.
There are many people that do-good works to get to their “heaven”. All the words religions rely on works for their promised “heaven” but ONE. CHRISTIANITY! It all rises and falls on Y-shua. Even Paul said if the resurrection was not real then we are to be men most pitted. Then our good works follow. What great news! It is so different! So, refreshing! Salvation is based on a living person then good works follow! Not a dead man and you better do enough good works that beats out Billy Graham, Mother Tressa, or even Y-shua!!!!
An interesting fact about Abraham being declared righteous by God Himself is that he was declared to be righteous by God because Abraham "believed God " - 15 years before he "offered up Isaac".
His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God.
Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested. There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
True righteousness which comes only from God's work in Christ always comes when we believe what God says is true.
There are "fruits of righteousness" as James talks about which shows up in helping our fellow man in need but they do not create righteousness.
Being righteous in Christ comes first because of His work on the cross and resurrection. Getting this backwards creates a religion of self-righteousness and actually denies the work of Christ Himself.
Preach and teach the good news that Christ alone is our righteousness and then the fruit of His life will be manifested in "deeds of righteousness" as He bears His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace that our loving Father has for them.
We will see corresponding action or works that glorify God.
His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God.
Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested. There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
True righteousness which comes only from God's work in Christ always comes when we believe what God says is true.
There are "fruits of righteousness" as James talks about which shows up in helping our fellow man in need but they do not create righteousness.
Being righteous in Christ comes first because of His work on the cross and resurrection. Getting this backwards creates a religion of self-righteousness and actually denies the work of Christ Himself.
Preach and teach the good news that Christ alone is our righteousness and then the fruit of His life will be manifested in "deeds of righteousness" as He bears His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace that our loving Father has for them.
We will see corresponding action or works that glorify God.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Yes! Great scripture!
Abraham was declared righteous 15 years before He even offered up Isaac.
When he did offer Isaac at the word of the Lord - his faith in what God had said was brought to completion.
Did you notice that Abraham didn't keep offering up Isaac in order to maintain being "righteous". It was an one time act that showed He believed God and when we believe God - He declares us righteous.
In the case of being born-again - it is a one time act of faith with a corresponding action just like Abraham and Rahab did a one time act of faith.
James uses their "one time act of faith" as examples of "believing the word of God and acting upon that word we hear." This is faith with works that come to it's full completion because we have been declared righteous by the work of Christ.
True faith will always have a corresponding work of some form to the "rhema" word of God spoken to us.
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The point that James is making is that justification does not precede works, it is the result of works. James only offers one example in Abraham's life to make this point. The fact is, every time Abraham obeyed God by doing what God told him to do, he was regarded as righteous. The Hebrew writer confirms that faith was confirmed WHEN Abraham obeyed God. James confirms that fact that when Abraham obeyed God, he was THEN regarded as righteous.
I disagree. Abraham was clearly declared righteous before Isaac was even born.
What Abraham did "after" being declared righteous proved his righteousness because his faith in God's word had a corresponding action.
Doing works in and of themselves never makes anyone righteous. We can confuse "deeds of righteousness" with righteousness itself. Righteousness only comes from Christ's work.
Genesis 15:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
What does James say? "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up(ἀνενέγκας - "having offered") Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Some people tend to overlook this part of scripture that Abraham was justified by his works,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,because that is all we can do because of the position we are in.
Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,after we receive the Spirit,for our position changes to that which is spiritual.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
They can say what they want,but Jesus says otherwise,and told the first Church that they were fallen,and to do the first works,and repent,or He would go against them,and the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God,and to repent,or He would go against them.
They say if a person has the Spirit they will do the works.Then how did these people lack works,and their works were not right before God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
This is how someone that is led of the Spirit behaves,and there is no ways of the flesh there,but some say that they are clean,and cannot falter no matter their actions,or thoughts,but that would mean they would never sin again,for what is in your heart is what will come forth,and say sin does not affect their relationship with God,which is a contradiction,for if they are clean,and cannot change,then all they would do for the rest of their life is show the characteristics of the Spirit,and never sin again,so why do they say sin does not affect their relationship with God.
If they are always clean,and cannot falter,no matter their actions,or thoughts,then they would never sin again,and would do works flawlessly to perfection,but the Bible says that it is possible for us to sin,if we want to sin,and to lack works,but how can this be true of we are always clean,for what is in your heart is what comes out,so if they sin,and lack works,that is what is in their heart,then they cannot be clean at that time.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Some people tend to overlook this part of scripture that Abraham was justified by his works,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,because that is all we can do because of the position we are in.
Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,after we receive the Spirit,for our position changes to that which is spiritual.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
They can say what they want,but Jesus says otherwise,and told the first Church that they were fallen,and to do the first works,and repent,or He would go against them,and the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God,and to repent,or He would go against them.
They say if a person has the Spirit they will do the works.Then how did these people lack works,and their works were not right before God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
This is how someone that is led of the Spirit behaves,and there is no ways of the flesh there,but some say that they are clean,and cannot falter no matter their actions,or thoughts,but that would mean they would never sin again,for what is in your heart is what will come forth,and say sin does not affect their relationship with God,which is a contradiction,for if they are clean,and cannot change,then all they would do for the rest of their life is show the characteristics of the Spirit,and never sin again,so why do they say sin does not affect their relationship with God.
If they are always clean,and cannot falter,no matter their actions,or thoughts,then they would never sin again,and would do works flawlessly to perfection,but the Bible says that it is possible for us to sin,if we want to sin,and to lack works,but how can this be true of we are always clean,for what is in your heart is what comes out,so if they sin,and lack works,that is what is in their heart,then they cannot be clean at that time.
So, we have God saying decades before Isaac was born that Abraham was righteous because "he believed the word of the Lord to him".
We have James saying that Abraham was justified when he offered Isaac on the altar. Obviously something is off here in our interpretation of "how is this applied" .
Romans 4:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
James is simply saying that real faith will have a corresponding action to it of some kind and James was "in context" talking about doing good things to our brother that is in need and not showing partiality towards them that are poor. James 2:1-26
James is talking about "righteousness" being manifested in deeds to others in need.
Real faith will show the love of God in us to others. These are the "deeds or fruits of being righteous."
Works do not make someone righteous. Every religion in the world would be declared righteous then because they all "do good works".
Anyway we can agree to dis-agree too but we both believe real faith will have some kind of a corresponding action for the time it is needed to and our faith would be completed or be mature in the doing of that action...
..Have a good night. I'm off to bed. Travelling tomorrow to go play pickleball. Bless you brother!
God ask Abraham go to the foreign land, and Abraham obey, It is consider faith to me.
So, we have God saying decades before Isaac was born that Abraham was righteous because "he believed the word of the Lord to him".
We have James saying that Abraham was justified when he offered Isaac on the altar. Obviously something is off here in our interpretation of "how is this applied" .
Romans 4:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
James is simply saying that real faith will have a corresponding action to it of some kind and James was "in context" talking about doing good things to our brother that is in need and not showing partiality towards them that are poor. James 2:1-26
Real faith will show the love of God in us to others. These are the "deeds or fruits of being righteous."
Works do not make someone righteous. Every religion in the world would be declared righteous then because they all "do good works".
Anyway we can agree to dis-agree too but we both believe real faith will have some kind of a corresponding action for the time it is needed to and our faith would be completed or be mature in the doing of that action...
Have a good night. I'm off to bed. Travelling tomorrow to go play pickleball. Bless you brother!
First if all, do not confuse works of the Law of Moses with works of righteousness. Secondly, there is nothing "off here in our interpretation of how is this applied. As I explained before, the point that James is making is that justification does not precede works, it is the result of works. James only offers one example in Abraham's life to make this point. The fact is, every time Abraham obeyed God by doing what God told him to do, he was regarded as righteous.
I think you are trying to make too much provision for the flesh.
For man,belief means to trust to the point that a person will be moved to physical action,like apostle James said.
That is precisely what I am saying. What James is saying is that faith without that "physical action" is not faith. It is our actions that give legitimacy to faith.
Does GOD need to see faith In action before a person Is justified by faith alone?
Scripture NEVER says we are saved by faith alone. James even makes a point in saying that we are NOT saved by faith alone.
[h=1]James 2:14-26New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]Faith Without Works Is Dead[/h][FONT="]14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b]works.
Jacob, James, clearly sates he will show you his faith by his works.[/FONT]
salvation comes by faith
any work or fruit is a result of the salvation and faith one already possesses in Christ.......!
any work or fruit is a result of the salvation and faith one already possesses in Christ.......!
Justified by faith and his blood....Paul was clear...NO MAN is justified before God by works....
We conclude a man is justified by faith without the works of the law.
Do not be deceived by the workers for who twist James into something that it is not......the context is clear
Before God men are justified by faith void of works<-Romans
Before men the faith that saves and justifies before God without works is seen by men based upon our works<--James
We conclude a man is justified by faith without the works of the law.
Do not be deceived by the workers for who twist James into something that it is not......the context is clear
Before God men are justified by faith void of works<-Romans
Before men the faith that saves and justifies before God without works is seen by men based upon our works<--James