Not By Works
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Dear Rosemary,
forgive me.. I'm learning as I go and will make effort to enlarge.. without shouting of course..
maybe it is appearing smaller to you than it appears to myself..
peace and love my dear.
P.s Magenta your text colour is a little faint.. but if no one else is effected then worry not to change just for me.
forgive me.. I'm learning as I go and will make effort to enlarge.. without shouting of course..
maybe it is appearing smaller to you than it appears to myself..
peace and love my dear.
P.s Magenta your text colour is a little faint.. but if no one else is effected then worry not to change just for me.
There is no "implication". When YOU state what you did above....you are saying that you can deny Jesus and still be saved...and Jesus himself said this was not TRUE...
Matt 10.33
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
We will not even discuss how you think Peter had salvation as you preach it...
Matt 10.33
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
We will not even discuss how you think Peter had salvation as you preach it...
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P
It's a very good analogy.
Think of it like this: So many people claiming to be immersed in a baptism of the Holy Spirit in a saving relationship with God through Christ, yet they don't have a drop of Holy Spirit visible on them--no kindness, no patience, no self control...
The person who claims to be baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit ought to have the evidence of that immersion showing somewhere in his life.
Think of it like this: So many people claiming to be immersed in a baptism of the Holy Spirit in a saving relationship with God through Christ, yet they don't have a drop of Holy Spirit visible on them--no kindness, no patience, no self control...
The person who claims to be baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit ought to have the evidence of that immersion showing somewhere in his life.
"6Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6 NIV)
“Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19 NIV)
Works are required in salvation exactly in the way John and Paul say they must in the verses above. And they do not mean works earn salvation. If you say you have been baptized into Christ it has to show somewhere. “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19 NIV)
7
well hmmmm and all that (7seas back for another round here)
thing is, Peter denied Jesus before Jesus death and resurrection and AFTER the fact, Jesus asked him 3 x's if Peter loved Him and we know what Peter said and Jesus said then 'feed my sheep'
Peter on the day of Pentecost was not the same Peter who denied Jesus 3 x's before the rooster announced the dawn. BUT Jesus IS the same Jesus who looked straight at Peter at the denial and who went straight to Peter's heart with words when He asked if Peter loved Him.
somebody tell me, was Peter actually saved when he denied Jesus or was he saved when he met Jesus on the beach and had a PERSONAL and meaningful and real conversation/conversion with Him. This is the same Peter to whom Jesus said flesh and blood has not shown this to you (meaning that Jesus was the Messiah) one moment and the next had Jesus saying to the spirit of the anti Christ Peter exhibited, 'get thee behind me Satan.' (obviously Jesus was not calling Peter satan but was speaking to the spirit)
where am I going with this?
IMO, I think it more than a little weak to state an unconverted Peter denied Jesus three times. The converted and Holy Spirit filled Peter, was a different person altogether.
keep Fighting the Good fight for the cause of GOD's Truth and love to be shared.
Matthew 22
34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22
34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Two things...
1) Peter denied Christ 3x and most Christians believe he is saved.
2) Peter's belief came in increments. As he ran into the tomb (after he denied Christ) he believed. This is actually quite common in the gospels, you see "they believed" and then a few chapters later they talk about believing more.
Why does this matter? Because the first time was what they had to give, but the effects of their belief increased as they heard His voice more and more.
Many today are not taught they can be lead by His Spirit so they are not walking as sons.
Paul was surprised when people didn't immediately follow Christ perfectly too. But there is Discipleship needed which releases grace to walk after the Spirit in newness of life.
Yet some theologians diminish the power of salvation to account for lack of fruit instead of what Christ declares: lack of discipleship.
Like the days of the Pharisees many are discipled by what traditions say Scripture says or doesn't say instead of being discipled to have a relationship with the Author.
As a result many argue over Scripture traditions instead of living the fruit of His message and following His Spirit.
1) Peter denied Christ 3x and most Christians believe he is saved.
2) Peter's belief came in increments. As he ran into the tomb (after he denied Christ) he believed. This is actually quite common in the gospels, you see "they believed" and then a few chapters later they talk about believing more.
Why does this matter? Because the first time was what they had to give, but the effects of their belief increased as they heard His voice more and more.
Many today are not taught they can be lead by His Spirit so they are not walking as sons.
Paul was surprised when people didn't immediately follow Christ perfectly too. But there is Discipleship needed which releases grace to walk after the Spirit in newness of life.
Yet some theologians diminish the power of salvation to account for lack of fruit instead of what Christ declares: lack of discipleship.
Like the days of the Pharisees many are discipled by what traditions say Scripture says or doesn't say instead of being discipled to have a relationship with the Author.
As a result many argue over Scripture traditions instead of living the fruit of His message and following His Spirit.
I think part of the issue is that when works are works preached in a way that says "If you really loved God you would work, stop sinning and so on"
To me that is the wrong way around, all it does is place a heavy burden on someone.
They get it wrong then the automatic default is "I obviously do not love God"
This then leads to guilt, followed by condemnation which will hinder a believers walk with Jesus.
Some of the stuff I have heard and what has been said to me is truly shocking.
But also I say on the othrside to teach that to say the sinners prayer and then your in and leave it at that is just as shocking and as false as what I have stated above. This can lead to people falling foul of the issues addressed in Romans 6
Jesus did say,
John 14:15-16
Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
To me Jesus is saying "If you love me you will want to obey me and I know you will need help and your helper will be the Holy Spirit"
A firm grounding in the faith needs to be addressed when some places their faith in Jesus.
What it actually means to follow Jesus.
It is faith that saves us full stop, when we place our faith in Jesus we have become a new creation. We have a new nature and that nature wants to be like Jesus and grow in him and manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit, our helper.
We desire to walk according to our new spirit and not the flesh.
What people also need to realise and to me this needs to be addressed that when we get it wrong
Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
The following is from gotquestions.org
Jesus is interceding for us while Satan (whose name means “accuser”) is accusing us, pointing out our sins and frailties before God, just as he did with Job (Job 1:6-12). But the accusations fall upon deaf ears in heaven, because Jesus’ work on the cross paid our sin debt in full; therefore, God always sees in His children the perfect righteousness of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross, His righteousness (perfect holiness) was imputed to us, while our sin was imputed to Him at His death. This is the great exchange Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 5:21. That took away forever our sinful state before God, so God can accept us as blameless before Him. (Got Questions)
To me what is really precious is that when a person gets it wrong they can come before God, with no condemnation, acknowledge they get it wrong and need help.
The reverse is I got it wrong and I/ME must do better in order not to be condemned and saved.
One thing that you have frequently said and actually I think if people have seen your posts concerning this then it can really help.
"Sin or getting it wrong does not negate entry into heaven but only unbeleif in Jesus does that, a believer will struggle but if they remain a believer God will help" (Hope I summarised that correctly, if not then please correct me)
To me that is the wrong way around, all it does is place a heavy burden on someone.
They get it wrong then the automatic default is "I obviously do not love God"
This then leads to guilt, followed by condemnation which will hinder a believers walk with Jesus.
Some of the stuff I have heard and what has been said to me is truly shocking.
But also I say on the othrside to teach that to say the sinners prayer and then your in and leave it at that is just as shocking and as false as what I have stated above. This can lead to people falling foul of the issues addressed in Romans 6
Jesus did say,
John 14:15-16
Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
To me Jesus is saying "If you love me you will want to obey me and I know you will need help and your helper will be the Holy Spirit"
A firm grounding in the faith needs to be addressed when some places their faith in Jesus.
What it actually means to follow Jesus.
It is faith that saves us full stop, when we place our faith in Jesus we have become a new creation. We have a new nature and that nature wants to be like Jesus and grow in him and manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit, our helper.
We desire to walk according to our new spirit and not the flesh.
What people also need to realise and to me this needs to be addressed that when we get it wrong
Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
The following is from gotquestions.org
Jesus is interceding for us while Satan (whose name means “accuser”) is accusing us, pointing out our sins and frailties before God, just as he did with Job (Job 1:6-12). But the accusations fall upon deaf ears in heaven, because Jesus’ work on the cross paid our sin debt in full; therefore, God always sees in His children the perfect righteousness of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross, His righteousness (perfect holiness) was imputed to us, while our sin was imputed to Him at His death. This is the great exchange Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 5:21. That took away forever our sinful state before God, so God can accept us as blameless before Him. (Got Questions)
To me what is really precious is that when a person gets it wrong they can come before God, with no condemnation, acknowledge they get it wrong and need help.
The reverse is I got it wrong and I/ME must do better in order not to be condemned and saved.
One thing that you have frequently said and actually I think if people have seen your posts concerning this then it can really help.
"Sin or getting it wrong does not negate entry into heaven but only unbeleif in Jesus does that, a believer will struggle but if they remain a believer God will help" (Hope I summarised that correctly, if not then please correct me)
I was listening to a teaching today, and the pastor said this. There is a race to the finish line that has the flag of victory at the end. But, we have to run it.
Then I think of the promises....we sit down in the heavenly realms first before the race. So we are in victory as we run. Along the way, we may become weary, or weak by what we see. Then I think...if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
We have our individual faith that grows and the roots become deeply embedded down into our earth. But, then too, we have His faith that He places in His own Spirit, which is Holy, to finish the work, that He began.
Do you see? And agree?
Then I think of the promises....we sit down in the heavenly realms first before the race. So we are in victory as we run. Along the way, we may become weary, or weak by what we see. Then I think...if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
We have our individual faith that grows and the roots become deeply embedded down into our earth. But, then too, we have His faith that He places in His own Spirit, which is Holy, to finish the work, that He began.
Do you see? And agree?
You're not the only one with Holy Spirit.
If you think you are the only one who knows truth. It is you who are deceived.
I know the Spirit of God. And I do not agree that article is heresy.
Your choice to not debate it using the context, but with argumentative slander which is of the flesh, found in John should cause you to reconsider your words.
If you think you are the only one who knows truth. It is you who are deceived.
I know the Spirit of God. And I do not agree that article is heresy.
Your choice to not debate it using the context, but with argumentative slander which is of the flesh, found in John should cause you to reconsider your words.
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