Why Are Rich People Related To Camels?

[unobtrusive]

I had been confused about a certain scripture for years – Matthew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” I wondered about this because as a young (and often broke!) believer, I saw people that appeared to be believers, and had way more money than they needed, that would in my mind, be “heaven bound” when they died. I finally did research and found a technical error in the translation from the original.

So there is no misunderstanding, know that I wholeheartedly believe that God has preserved His Word completely and understandably enough for all of us to be able to acquire salvation, in spite of the many different versions and translations of the Bible. But I had to dig deeper on this one and I wanted to share what I found with anyone who might have the same questions I did. (Edifying one another, you know )

Matthew 19:24 KJV – “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The original reads: “And again I say to you that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim.”
And I found this note: “Gamala refers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. Greek scholars puzzled over a camel entering through the eye of a needle, which is a physical impossibility. Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed. Theological attempts to “prove” the eye of a needle to be a geographical location have utterly failed.”

 

[Willie-T]

I think it all comes down to that one word, EASIER. Nothing any more complicated than that.

 

[Dino246]

I laughed out loud at the thread title.

 

[Kavik]

"Camel" here is a mis-translation - it doesn't refer to the animal. I don't recall the Aramaic words off the top of my head, but the root word here actually means 'thick rope' (specifically rope used to moor a boat/ship) - the root is also similar to 'camel' and thus the mis-translation. The entire passage makes considerably more sense when the proper "rope" or "mooring rope" is used in place of 'camel'; particularly among fishermen.

Camels are not indigenous to Israel - just like in the US or Europe today, people would know what a camel was, but most people probably would have never seen the actual animal.

 

[Depleted]

Have you ever done a study on what Jesus told people whenever they asked him how they could be saved? It'a always whacked!

He told Nicodemus he had to be born again. Ever try being born a second time?

He told the Pharisees they had to love the Lord completely and love your neighbor as yourself. Instantly they wanted to know who the neighbor was, so then there is the Good Samaritan story. The real story. Not the one we're given in modern times when all you have to do is give chump change to a beggar. First, Samaritan was to a Jew what the Hatfields were to the McCoys -- both directions. (Centuries of hatred for the Jews and Samartians though. Hatfields and McCoys only hated each other for a century.) And the Samaritan didn't just throw chump change at the Jew. He ripped up ihs good clothes to bandage the man, fed him until he was able to travel, put him on his donkey to take him up a cliff that's still treacherous today, gave him a room, and after he was out-of-the-woods paid for him staying there for another month or two. Of course, the Pharisees would bulk.

We would too. At all those stories, including the rich man story. The thing most of them didn't realize is what Jesus was saying was impossible. (Or they knew that, but were too ashamed to say it.)

No. Really. It doesn't matter if it's a rope or a camel. It is more likely a huge object will fit through a very thin hole than we can earn our way to heaven. That's the key. We can't! Not now. Not when we weren't saved. Not ever!

So, when we get to the point where we panic over that, then we ask the obvious question. "Then how do we?"

We don't! The Lord is in charge of who goes through that eye, who is born again, and who takes care of us. That's the key! Not strand by strand! All of him for all of us! He is, quite literally "The Way."

 

[Rondonmon]

I had been confused about a certain scripture for years – Matthew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” I wondered about this because as a young (and often broke!) believer, I saw people that appeared to be believers, and had way more money than they needed, that would in my mind, be “heaven bound” when they died. I finally did research and found a technical error in the translation from the original.

So there is no misunderstanding, know that I wholeheartedly believe that God has preserved His Word completely and understandably enough for all of us to be able to acquire salvation, in spite of the many different versions and translations of the Bible. But I had to dig deeper on this one and I wanted to share what I found with anyone who might have the same questions I did. (Edifying one another, you know )

Matthew 19:24 KJV – “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The original reads: “And again I say to you that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim.”
And I found this note: “Gamala refers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. Greek scholars puzzled over a camel entering through the eye of a needle, which is a physical impossibility. Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed. Theological attempts to “prove” the eye of a needle to be a geographical location have utterly failed.”

Google "Eye of a Needle Door" and Images. What you will more than likely see is door within a huge door. In the Walled cities of those ages they did not dare to open the huge Doors of the City so they had small doors that people could come and go through, but a huge army couldn't rush through.

Thus for a Camel to go through this "Needle" he had to get on his knees and crawl through, likewise a Rich Man must also get on his knees before God.

 

[stonesoffire]

I laughed out loud at the thread title.

It got my attention. I won't say though what my first thought was. Nasty..

 

[loveme1]

I had been confused about a certain scripture for years – Matthew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” I wondered about this because as a young (and often broke!) believer, I saw people that appeared to be believers, and had way more money than they needed, that would in my mind, be “heaven bound” when they died. I finally did research and found a technical error in the translation from the original.

So there is no misunderstanding, know that I wholeheartedly believe that God has preserved His Word completely and understandably enough for all of us to be able to acquire salvation, in spite of the many different versions and translations of the Bible. But I had to dig deeper on this one and I wanted to share what I found with anyone who might have the same questions I did. (Edifying one another, you know )

Matthew 19:24 KJV – “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The original reads: “And again I say to you that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim.”
And I found this note: “Gamala refers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. Greek scholars puzzled over a camel entering through the eye of a needle, which is a physical impossibility. Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed. Theological attempts to “prove” the eye of a needle to be a geographical location have utterly failed.”

I believed it to mean that the man would not love GOD more than His money... being the more they had the harder to get them to Believe and Love GOD.

Thanks for sharing.. I always believed it to mean a difficult task but not impossible.

 

[preacher4truth]

The Greek word κάμηλος (kamēlos) is used here, and means "camel." How does that Greek word turn from camel into rope?

 

[FlSnookman7]

I think the key part of the verses you mention occurs 2 verses later...

Matthew 19:26 [FONT=&quot]But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible[/FONT]

 

[preacher4truth]

I think the key part of the verses you mention occurs 2 verses later...

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible

Exactly!!!

 

[Zmouth]

Interesting since all the new translations use the term 'camel' as well.

The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.1 Sam 2:7


The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all. Prov 22:2a


20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Eccl 3:20-21

 

[unobtrusive]

The Greek word κάμηλος (kamēlos) is used here, and means "camel." How does that Greek word turn from camel into rope?

As I mentioned in the op, I researched the original language which is Aramaic, and the word is Gamala, whichrefers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. This is why Greek scholars were puzzled. This information is from the Aramaic - English New Testament.
Just wanted share with others.

 

[preacher4truth]

As I mentioned in the op, I researched the original language which is Aramaic, and the word is Gamala, whichrefers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. This is why Greek scholars were puzzled. This information is from the Aramaic - English New Testament.
Just wanted share with others.

No problem my friend.

Nonetheless Jesus point is clear: salvation is not possible for men, even though men teach that via their free will that it is possible, contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Salvation is only possible with God.

It is therefore impossible with men, that is clear, and thus thoroughly refutes the false gospel of free will decisionalism.

Yet we still have men who teach that they are able, even when Christ elsewhere reiterates man is unable; John 6:44. "No one can (denoting inability) come to me..." &c.

 

[Locutus]

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 24
A camel - Instead of καμηλον, camel, six MSS. read καμιλον, cable, a mere gloss inserted by some who did not know that the other was a proverb common enough among the people of the east.


There is an expression similar to this in the Koran. "The impious, who in his arrogance shall accuse our doctrine of falsity, shall find the gates of heaven shut: nor shall he enter there till a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle. It is thus that we shall recompense the wicked." Al Koran. Surat vii. ver. 37.


It was also a mode of expression common among the Jews, and signified a thing impossible. Hence this proverb: A camel in Media dances in a cabe; a measure which held about three pints. Again, No man sees a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant passing through the eye of a needle. Because these are impossible things. "Rabbi Shesheth answered Rabbi Amram, who had advanced an absurdity, Perhaps thou art one of the Pembidithians who can make an elephant pass through the eye of a needle; that is, says the Aruch, 'who speak things impossible.'"

See Lightfoot and Schoettgen on this place.

Go through - But instead of διελθειν, about eighty MSS. with several versions and fathers, have εισελθειν, to enter in; but the difference is of little importance in an English translation, though of some consequence to the elegance of the Greek text.
[HR][/HR]

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

I had been confused about a certain scripture for years – Matthew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” I wondered about this because as a young (and often broke!) believer, I saw people that appeared to be believers, and had way more money than they needed, that would in my mind, be “heaven bound” when they died. I finally did research and found a technical error in the translation from the original.

So there is no misunderstanding, know that I wholeheartedly believe that God has preserved His Word completely and understandably enough for all of us to be able to acquire salvation, in spite of the many different versions and translations of the Bible. But I had to dig deeper on this one and I wanted to share what I found with anyone who might have the same questions I did. (Edifying one another, you know )

Matthew 19:24 KJV – “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The original reads: “And again I say to you that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim.”
And I found this note: “Gamala refers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. Greek scholars puzzled over a camel entering through the eye of a needle, which is a physical impossibility. Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed. Theological attempts to “prove” the eye of a needle to be a geographical location have utterly failed.”

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Instruct those who are rich in the present age not to be conceited and not to put their hope in the uncertainty of wealth, but in God, who richly provides all things for us to enjoy. 18Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, and to be generous and ready to share, 19treasuring up for themselves a firm foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

Jeremiah 9:23-24
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

 

[dcontroversal]

Camels are stubborn hah

 

[Dino246]

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 24
A camel - Instead of καμηλον, camel, six MSS. read καμιλον, cable, a mere gloss inserted by some who did not know that the other was a proverb common enough among the people of the east.


There is an expression similar to this in the Koran. "The impious, who in his arrogance shall accuse our doctrine of falsity, shall find the gates of heaven shut: nor shall he enter there till a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle. It is thus that we shall recompense the wicked." Al Koran. Surat vii. ver. 37.


It was also a mode of expression common among the Jews, and signified a thing impossible. Hence this proverb: A camel in Media dances in a cabe; a measure which held about three pints. Again, No man sees a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant passing through the eye of a needle. Because these are impossible things. "Rabbi Shesheth answered Rabbi Amram, who had advanced an absurdity, Perhaps thou art one of the Pembidithians who can make an elephant pass through the eye of a needle; that is, says the Aruch, 'who speak things impossible.'"

See Lightfoot and Schoettgen on this place.

Go through - But instead of διελθειν, about eighty MSS. with several versions and fathers, have εισελθειν, to enter in; but the difference is of little importance in an English translation, though of some consequence to the elegance of the Greek text.
[HR][/HR]

Given that the Qu'ran post-dates the Bible, it is possible that the biblical saying was adapted and added to the Qu'ran. I'm not about to argue the point though.

 

[Huckleberry]

There is an expression similar to this in the Koran. "The impious, who in his arrogance shall accuse our doctrine of falsity, shall find the gates of heaven shut: nor shall he enter there till a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle. It is thus that we shall recompense the wicked." Al Koran. Surat vii. ver. 37.

Since you're citing a plagiarized, perverted hoax as if it's relevant, maybe you
should also relay what the Book of Mormon has to say concerning the matter.

 

[kaylagrl]

Given that the Qu'ran post-dates the Bible, it is possible that the biblical saying was adapted and added to the Qu'ran. I'm not about to argue the point though.

Its more than possible,Mohammed took several religions and blended them,Christianity being one of them of course.