The Early Church Fathers wrote about the Rapture

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heartofdavid

Guest
#21
I dont need to twist anything. Darby didnt make it popular at all. Few of his leading contempories believed in his system. It was only when Schofield latched on to it and with the help of the Moody institute and Oxford university press spread his notes around that most people had ever heard of it. Without Schofield it would have sunk without trace. Its no coincidence that it is among Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the US that so many Pre Tribbers are found.

Its up to you if you want to believe it or not.
You continue to slander us.

You basically lie.

Several of us never even heard if your dead men you pull like a sixgun.

Under your false messed up view,Catholicism should be required and mandatory since they are the infallible basis for your belief.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#22
what can you not read...You tend to put sentences where you think they are most useful.

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The way I read it is in this order. (the way he said it): [emphasis added]

1. "when in the end [days] the Church shall be suddenly [be] caught up from this [world], [ 2Co 12:2,2Co 12:4, 1Th 4:17, Rev 12:5, ἁρπάζω harpazō ---Rapture ]

2. "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be [ever again]." Matthew 24:21"

[Here we see Daniel's 70th week unfolding.]

3. "For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption"

**********

One of us is wrong, it is that obvious......I will leave it to the reader to decide.

I wonder if scoffield preceded the Geneva 1599 bible.

It has in it's footnotes reference to escaping the GT.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#23
I wonder if scoffield preceded the Geneva 1599 bible.

It has in it's footnotes reference to escaping the GT.
I found this totally by accident.

I have this translation saved by default in the bible gateway site.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#24
the church fathers said this and that. they werent unanimous on many things but what u quoted is proof that people need to stop using the darby garbage excuse. it doesnt refute the doctrine at all. its just parroting da same garbage lies they heard somewhere.
i never read anything from darby nor scofield. i read the bible and i cross reference it and pray and match it up. bam bam bam. no need for no darby. i came to this conclusion on my own.
da problem is if u dont have no dispensations in the bible u will make a mess out of it. the church and israel isnt the same thats the main problem with a lot of these churches. replacement theology trash. but hey if the gospel is right people can still get saved.

shall not the judge of all the earth do right? said abraham. he knew God doesnt destroy da rightous with da wicked. thats why the rapture is before the seals trumpets and vials. PERIOD END OF STORY
"The Darby garbage", as you put it, is spoken of most often because it was he and Scofield who devised a way to broadcast the mistaken assumption of a "rapture" to a wide enough audience to start a modern fad.
 
May 11, 2014
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#25
"The Darby garbage", as you put it, is spoken of most often because it was he and Scofield who devised a way to broadcast the mistaken assumption of a "rapture" to a wide enough audience to start a modern fad.
In all fairness, the majority of Christians today are not dispensationalists. The fastest growing denominations are the hyper-charismatics with their moneygo$pel.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#26
In all fairness, the majority of Christians today are not dispensationalists. The fastest growing denominations are the hyper-charismatics with their moneygo$pel.
As the detectives say "Follow the money".:D
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#27
Who was caught up then Locutus?
Those that were in Christ after the tribulation of 66-70AD - Jesus told his followers in Judea to flee, get out of the place.

The "rapture" was a spiritual meeting in the "air" of Christ and his church - caught up to "heaven" in the same manner that Paul was:

2 Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,058
13,749
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#28
"The Darby garbage", as you put it, is spoken of most often because it was he and Scofield who devised a way to broadcast the mistaken assumption of a "rapture" to a wide enough audience to start a modern fad.
If we want to be totally fair and judge righteously -- as commanded by the Lord -- then we need to accept the facts that:

1. Neither John Nelson Darby nor C.I. Scofield wrote or promoted "garbage". That kind of malicious attack does not belong among Christians, and comes from the Accuser of the Brethren. And before anyone says anything further, I will challenge you to acquire a Scofield Reference Bible (pre 1930) and show us one thing in that Bible which can fairly be labeled as "garbage".

2. Both these men (and others who were also well known and held to a Pretribulation Rapture) were Christian brothers who were regenerated and saved by grace and Bible scholars. They were also engaged in the Lord's work, and for Christians to hurl insults at them reflects very poorly on those who attack them. Indeed, it reveals insecurity on the part of the attackers.

3. Christians should be grateful that some brothers took the time and made the effort to study the Scriptures in depth, rather than swallowing prevailing dogmas which had no basis in Scripture. Any diligent student of the Word can discover for himself that the coming of Christ for His saints was always IMMINENT. So if Christians in later centuries brought this doctrine to light, we should be grateful, not throw dirt on them.

4. The Pretribulation Resurrection/ Rapture is neither a "mistaken assumption" nor a "modern fad". Christians should be crystal clear that the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are for the unbelieving and the ungodly. This is a period of "troubles" and judgments for those who are outside of Christ and have rejected God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. For anyone to promote the idea that the Tribulation is for the Church is to promote nonsense. There is not one single mention of "the church" or "churches" from Revelation 4 to Revelation 18. These chapters are descriptive of the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation (also called the Day of the LORD in the OT).
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#29
If we want to be totally fair and judge righteously -- as commanded by the Lord -- then we need to accept the facts that:

1. Neither John Nelson Darby nor C.I. Scofield wrote or promoted "garbage". That kind of malicious attack does not belong among Christians, and comes from the Accuser of the Brethren. And before anyone says anything further, I will challenge you to acquire a Scofield Reference Bible (pre 1930) and show us one thing in that Bible which can fairly be labeled as "garbage".

2. Both these men (and others who were also well known and held to a Pretribulation Rapture) were Christian brothers who were regenerated and saved by grace and Bible scholars. They were also engaged in the Lord's work, and for Christians to hurl insults at them reflects very poorly on those who attack them. Indeed, it reveals insecurity on the part of the attackers.

3. Christians should be grateful that some brothers took the time and made the effort to study the Scriptures in depth, rather than swallowing prevailing dogmas which had no basis in Scripture. Any diligent student of the Word can discover for himself that the coming of Christ for His saints was always IMMINENT. So if Christians in later centuries brought this doctrine to light, we should be grateful, not throw dirt on them.

4. The Pretribulation Resurrection/ Rapture is neither a "mistaken assumption" nor a "modern fad". Christians should be crystal clear that the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are for the unbelieving and the ungodly. This is a period of "troubles" and judgments for those who are outside of Christ and have rejected God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. For anyone to promote the idea that the Tribulation is for the Church is to promote nonsense. There is not one single mention of "the church" or "churches" from Revelation 4 to Revelation 18. These chapters are descriptive of the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation (also called the Day of the LORD in the OT).
How are you going to explain #4 to all the hundreds of thousands of Christians slaughtered during the 1st-Century tribulation when persecution was coming upon them from all sides, both from the Jews, and the Pagans, alike?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#30
How are you going to explain #4 to all the hundreds of thousands of Christians slaughtered during the 1st-Century tribulation when persecution was coming upon them from all sides, both from the Jews, and the Pagans, alike?
Hi Willie!

I really wish that you and others would pay attention and consider the information that we provide.

The first century Christians and every believer throughout the entire church period up to this very day, have been suffering the trials and tribulation that Jesus said all believers would experience, which comes at the hands of the world and the powers of darkness. In opposition, what is coming is the unprecedented, direct wrath of God, which believer's in Christ are not appointed to suffer.

Not understanding the difference between these two is what is causing the error. The time of God's wrath will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It will be a time like no other in the history of the world. A time of terror and death like never seen since man has been on the earth.

From the time of the on-set of the church until this very moment, believers in Christ have been suffering the trials and tribulation that Jesus said we would have. However, that time period of Daniel's 70th seven, will be wrath directly from God upon a Christ rejecting world, who continue willfully living according to the sinful nature. Once the church has been gathered and that antichrist revealed, then God's wrath will ensue.

In lieu of your post, I hope that you will take this consideration.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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#31
You continue to slander us.

You basically lie.

Several of us never even heard if your dead men you pull like a sixgun.

Under your false messed up view,Catholicism should be required and mandatory since they are the infallible basis for your belief.
Try the Angelican Communion...which include the Church of England.