Not By Works

[7seasrekeyed]

Hi EG...I write this post in all honesty...I was hurt when you said it was not the Holy Spirit leading me as i was reading Hebrews 6, in fact i went away with your comment in my mind, i thought if the Holy Spirit was not leading me to see what i saw then who was...I felt very peaceful when i was reading it and re-reading it, and it also made me go out on to the net and search more answers, but what happens then is i start distrusting what the Lord has shown me to find mans word above Gods, the site i went on said that that Hebrew 6:6 causes confusion , and people look at it in two different ways which i also understand, but i chose to see it as our Father showed me, i still believe the Holy Spirit was leading me...If we disagree on the matter than that is fine, but to tell one is being led by the Holy Spirit i believe was not called for...I love you my brother...xox...

do not allow the thief to enter in and steal what God has put in your heart

you were reading the word in context and in your simplicity gained understanding

the thief will always cast doubt especially if the word counters the popular opinion

read Jesus words about the sower...

some people here will see me as a sour lemon and some will see me as a sweet gumdrop

no matter

 

[stonesoffire]

No, because believing is not a work that earns salvation. Believing secures salvation as a free gift, not as payment for work done.

You continue to have salvation because you continue to believe (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). Even traditional OSAS says this. There has never been any disagreement about this until H-grace/ Free Grace doctrine reared it's ugly head in the church which says you do not have to continue to believe to continue to be saved.

And we don't say that. We say we will believe and faith will grow. For He knows the end from the beginning and doesn't make haphazard choices.

Yet, there are the whosoevers call...another thread.

 

[loveme1]

Flies?

That makes me think of Psalm 23 where it says that the Lord anoints our heads with oil.

The shepherds used to smear olive oil on the head and ears of the sheep to keep the "flies" from getting to the sheep.

Beelezbub is called "lord of the flies".

The anointing of the revelation of Christ by the Holy Spirit renews our minds and stops the "flies/lies" of the enemy from penetrating our minds.

Thank you for sharing Grace.. very interesting...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

do not allow the thief to enter in and steal what God has put in your heart

you were reading the word in context and in your simplicity gained understanding

the thief will always cast doubt especially if the word counters the popular opinion

read Jesus words about the sower...

some people here will see me as a sour lemon and some will see me as a sweet gumdrop

no matter

so now I am a thief, just like your brother meggido, can not even understand what you truly said, thats sad,

rosemary understood what I said without me even having to help her, why can't you two?

Oh wait, I think we all know

 

[stonesoffire]

You seem to not realize that you're saying believers can stop believing and they will still be saved. But then when convenient you will argue that believers can never stop believing. I encounter this duplicity all the time. I used to expect in forums that people would stick to traditional OSAS. Not so anymore. And because they are so duplicitous you can't have an honest debate with them. They swing to the side that suits the particular argument being addressed.

Now, when pressed, you probably want to go with the argument that believers can never stop believing, rather than the argument that former believers still have eternal life. And I'm good with that. If a person wants to believe they can never stop believing, good. It's a matter that they alone have to address when they undergo their 'Job' testing someday. The point being, if you think that believers can never stop believing then you believe that believing is required to the very end. Think about it.

If one walks away from their job testing...then they were of the one of those whose seed fell on ground that has weeds or thorns..part of the curse yet, (maybe a mind set?) which was lifted off by the Cross of Jesus Christ.

Not the good seed on good ground. We will overcome by the Word of His testimony and blood of the Lamb.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Rosemary do you still believe what you received or do you see things differently?

Sometimes understanding comes and then deepens from milk to meat.. but I would say you should keep listening and ask and sometimes there is a delay.. then like lightning you receive it.. it is Amazing.. and the learning continues.. keep believing my dear let none of us hinder you ...

Hi loveme1...Yes i do believe what i saw and got an understanding from it, i have to take Gods word over man and must not allow His word to be snatched away...When i went on the web site to dig deeper, the web site said that people see two meanings from Hebrews 6:6, well that straight away for me is going to cause confusion, and God is not a God of confusion, so i have decided to stick with what God has shown me, and like you said, it is amazing...We can sometimes read to many post of what others believe and take that for fact, i was doing that i must admit, but that is dangerous unless one truly knows their Scripture...I know we can learn from each other as i have from many a post, but when we do not understand, that`s when we need to go to the Scriptures and get our understanding from the Lord...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

I can tell you one thing... YOU consistently show the Holy Spirit in your posts with love. We have all been blessed by them. Thank you.

Praise our Lord Jesus Christ \o/...I am only the women i am today because He is changing me from the inside out...Thank you PennEd for your kind words, all the Glory to God...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

This is could be see as an inverted statement.
I once knew some charismatics who where filled with Gods presence and love.
Their reaction to their experience was not build on discipline and the walk, with understanding
the truths in scripture but to say what they knew before was all wrong, discipline, approach,
and only this emotional outpouring. They ended up believing meeting at regular times with each
other was not spiritual, only when led to meet was the way.

They ended up not meeting as disappointments and problems arose.

So how people perceive what is of man and what is of God often changes.
If you just study scripture Amen, though strangely often the very group be represented here
opposed doing this very thing, without listening to the "right" preacher, or using the "right" lens.

I am glad finally the truth of Gods reality is coming out and how to find Him through the word and
not the interpretation of man.

So did they die then in this way? Or don't you know? We can all get mixed up until maturity which I believe is to learn to rightly divide scripture. A process that may take years. Or maybe it was just me.

 

[stonesoffire]

On cue... many wise people here have told us openly the way some run.

When have I ever said sin no more to you? I would not dare judge myself worthy to say sin no more in such manner

and go do works to receive salvation?

Anything not not done in Faith of the Messiah counts for nothing.. to call Him Lord we are to love and obey Him is my belief because He spoke it, I heard it and believe it.

i was once told to go sell everything I had to give to the poor.. otherwise I did not believe it all and was a hypocrite... well the Lord is not fooled by feigned love.. and that is why we all come before His judgement seat...

Here is an example of something we disagree on loveme...

You speak of feigned love but the Word says this:

~Rom 5:5


　 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.　

Again in another place:

~
2Pe 1:3　 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

To know and understand what we have been given through Holy Spirit and our oneness with Him...we are then centered on who we are. As grace777 says..our identity is the Sons of God, being supplied with all we need to fulfill our call.

It's how we make sure our election and call. 　

 

[loveme1]

Here is an example of something we disagree on loveme...

You speak of feigned love but the Word says this:

~Rom 5:5


　 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.　

Again in another place:

~
2Pe 1:3　 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

To know and understand what we have been given through Holy Spirit and our oneness with Him...we are then centered on who we are. As grace777 says..our identity is the Sons of God, being supplied with all we need to fulfill our call.

It's how we make sure our election and call. 　

What do we disagree on?

 

[preacher4truth]

I need to read this again. Vaguely remember these things.

Careful, Bunyan was a Calvinist.

 

[BillG]

Jesus will never leave you....but many leave Jesus....

and that is what myself and phart and Stephen and others have been saying for about 34,000 pages now....but you and others are trying to make it that we are talking about works...we have never said it is about works, it is about ongoing belief....

We are counseling a couple right now who lost a 3 month old baby...and let me tell you, they are so saved & filled with the Spirit...but they are also having so many doubts about Father right now.....

But you and others would just write them off for having these doubts and place them in instant and immediate condemnation and say...they were not really saved and then try to get them saved, instead of ministering to the real need....

I think the greatest damage you guys inflict is saying to people...I do not know if anyone is saved, only God knows the heart.......then proclaim someone was never really saved to begin with.....and they need to get saved...then you act the hypocrite and act like you do nothing wrong....

May the Father give you wisdom and everything you need whilst counselling this couple.
Father we lift all those up to you who are involved.
We pray for this couple. May a peace come upon them that only you can give in this situation. We pray for healing of the hurt and pain. Holy Spirit watch over them and protect them.

We ask this in Jesus name.

Meggido your last paragraph hits a cord with me.

As you know I stopped going to church for a while, my reasons have been posted on this thread.

Truth is I never lost my faith in Jesus, I lost faith in the church I was going to and felt God lost faith in me.
Even during my darkest times I still called out to God. I did it every day for about 15 years, first thing in the morning, when I woke up with nightmares and guilt at around 2 am every morning, when I was gambling as an outlet.

During this time I was written off as an unbeliever, very very few people sort me out.

This is why I am so passionate about part of the ministry I lead in church which is to seek out those missing in action.

May we never write them off, may we always seek them out, may we always be available to them and may we never never never ever ever ever condemn them because they have walked away.

May we also never condemn others because of doubt.

 

[Meggido]

Lol, something told me to look, that you may be trying something tricky, maybe that was God?

Then explain why why we have so many belief systems, even many people who have the same gospel did God tell them all wrong stuff?

God warned us that Satan comes as an angel of light, he would not warn us if it were not possible,

you do do not want to head Gods warning, that's on you.

How infantile, prideful and arrogant to think my post had anything to do with you and not simply instructing babes in Christ how to grow and spiritually mature and not let confusion, double mindedness, or the birds of the air take away the word they received with joy and that was planted in their heart

If you call this tricky, then you are absolutely out of touch with any form of knowledge or know how on growing young fruit trees so that they will bear fruit that remains...

For once, I am not going to get sucked into your narcissistic worm hole, and end up making this all about you.....

 

[stonesoffire]

Careful, Bunyan was a Calvinist.

Am a half Calvinist at heart. If there is such a thing. Bunyan was inspired. That is all I ask.

 

[stonesoffire]

What do we disagree on?

uh, well, I did say what it is. You say unfeigned love. No such thing with one who is born from above. The love of God is through Holy Spirit given to us in our new nature. Otherwise...we would still be at odds with Him in our carnal mind.

We can't do anything without being empowered by Holy Spirit.

Unfeigned love would cast doubt on one who is a new believer and struggling with something.

Renewed mind in the Word. That's what we "do".

 

[Zi]

True but I couldn't think of what I wanted to say nor could I look it up.. They still leave the faith.. what I was saying is still true

Scripture confirms the heart condition of those who fall away, in that they are not saved. Specifically, Jude confirms that apostates are those who don't have the Spirit.

The world's definition of apostates is different to the biblical definition, which is why some have this wrong belief that apostates were once believers. But Jude confirms apostates never had the Holy Spirit, so right there is confirmation of the truth. If you read the entire chapter it says much about non believers.

 

[kaylagrl]

Well...in places, you missed some walking together in the Spirit in love.

Ohhh that doesn't happen often here!! What page was that on?

 

[loveme1]

uh, well, I did say what it is. You say unfeigned love. No such thing with one who is born from above. The love of God is through Holy Spirit given to us in our new nature. Otherwise...we would still be at odds with Him in our carnal mind.

We can't do anything without being empowered by Holy Spirit.

Unfeigned love would cast doubt on one who is a new believer and struggling with something.

Renewed mind in the Word. That's what we "do".

We disagree on the use of unfeigned love?

 

[loveme1]

Stones, I said the Lord is not fooled by feigned love in regard to what is in my heart.. He knows me inwardly.... why are you making this about you I don't know...


We are to have unfeigned love.....

 

[stonesoffire]

We disagree on the use of unfeigned love?

m

Yes, Mam....

And in this...the power of Holy Spirit within to actually make one brand new. If you think a believer can have unfeigned love of God.

I know you guys hate to look at the greek but if one would? You would see that we actually are a new "genesis" race of Spiritual men and women.