Polygamy

[ConservativeChristian]

Your nick says you are a conservative Christian.

Your deeds say you are a conservative ungodly person.

Get your deeds to align with your faith.

Ah I see because I think it is a moronically inspired thred I am less of Christian? I am cool with that my point stands if you are presenting an argument in favor of polygamy you are a moron, Christian or otherwise. Polygamy is illegal..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_polygamy so to think its ok as a Christian makes me wonder where the real question of regeneration might lay. Good day.

 

[ConservativeChristian]

I mean where does it end, should Christians be supporters of slavery because God allowed it in the OT. Or maybe Its ok for a grown man to marry a 12 year old too so long as he presents a dowry.......among other examples....

 

[trofimus]

Irrespective of your strong feelings and opinion on the matter, you have been asked a number of times to show this approval of polygamy explicitly stated in Scriptures. One Scripture to show God's approval? No? None? That's what I thought.

Do you think that the Law instructions would be enough?

"If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights."
Ex 21:10 NIV

"If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love."
Dt 21:15 NIV

- God was not concerned about having two wives nor about loving them equally, but about their sons...

 

[p_rehbein]

On a serious note, what I love is that folks are quick to tell us how the Laws and such of the Old Testament are NOT in effect for the Church today, BUT we are suppose to believe polygamy IS?

A wise Man once said that we should obey the Laws of Caesar for the glory of God. That's good enough for me.....

 

[trofimus]

On a serious note, what I love is that folks are quick to tell us how the Laws and such of the Old Testament are NOT in effect for the Church today, BUT we are suppose to believe polygamy IS?

A wise Man once said that we should obey the Laws of Caesar for the glory of God. That's good enough for me.....

I never said that the Law about polygamy or polygamy being legal in the OT has any effect on the Church today.

 

[laura_charlotte]

I never said that the Law about polygamy or polygamy being legal in the OT has any effect on the Church today.

Examine the mentality of the source, it screams volumes of a genuine discussion not being solicited, rather, a history of attention seeking crudeness and insolence. As Jesus did in Acts, when some became stubborn and continue in unbelief, speaking evil of God's Will before believers, He withdrew from them and took the disciples with Him. This is a flawless example to follow.

 

[unobtrusive]

On the contrary, this was not in the same basket at all. That's a huge stretch of a comparison to make. We're all given free will, many things are permitted on earth that are totally unlawful and sinful, again, polygamy is not to be written into this equation and placed in a likable context because of your own personal judgement of it. Polygamy's origins can be established in the root of the Lord and it was facilitated as such in the old testament as a result.

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a)
Sorry, but scripture (the law of God) says differently, as you suggest, despite David and Solomon's actions. People didn't know before the commandments were given to Israel.

In the same way, divorce is not according to God's will. *Jesus has one betrothed wife (the church), and no more. IMO, marriage is the most holy representation of the spiritual relationship concerning intimacy that God desires.

Paul confirms this when he writes "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning *Christ and the church (singular).Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife (singular) even as himself; and the wife (singular) see that she reverence her husband (singular).

 

[trofimus]

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a)
Sorry, but scripture (the law of God) says differently, as you suggest, despite David and Solomon's actions. People didn't know before the commandments were given to Israel.

In the same way, divorce is not according to God's will. *Jesus has one betrothed wife (the church), and no more. IMO, marriage is the most holy representation of the spiritual relationship concerning intimacy that God desires.

Paul confirms this when he writes "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning *Christ and the church (singular).Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife (singular) even as himself; and the wife (singular) see that she reverence her husband (singular).

It seems to my that you are not properly dividing the context, time and valid covenants.

You mixed together spiritual image of Christ and church and Moses´ Law for kings which have a very different purpose.

 

[unobtrusive]

It seems to my that you are not properly dividing the context, time and valid covenants.

You mixed together spiritual image of Christ and church and Moses´ Law for kings which have a very different purpose.

Moses wrote the word of God, and Jesus is the Word/Voice of God. What I was saying is that more than one wife is not according to scripture. Jesus, our saviour, has only one betrothed bride. Jesus is the same, or was the same before He was born in the flesh. He is the One who gave the Words of His Father to Israel.

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a) This is the Word of God.

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries." (Exodus 23:20-22)

Is not Jesus the Word of God?

 

[Magenta]

Do you think that the Law instructions would be enough?

"If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights."
Ex 21:10 NIV

"If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love."
Dt 21:15 NIV

- God was not concerned about having two wives nor about loving them equally, but about their sons...

The first verse you gave negates your conclusion. Neither verse condones polygamy, but seeks to protect the rights of the ones being wronged.

 

[trofimus]

The first verse you gave negates your conclusion. Neither verse condones polygamy, but seeks to protect the rights of the ones being wronged.

Law clearly makes rules for polygamy and so accepts it as such.

If Law was against polygamy, it would be "Man will have only one wife", not "If a man marries another woman etc."

 

[Magenta]

Law clearly makes rules for polygamy and so accepts it as such.

If Law was against polygamy, it would be "Man will have only one wife", not "If a man marries another woman etc."

The law clearly makes rules for how to treat murderers, also, but that does not mean murdering is being condoned. Do not multiply wives for yourself. That is a straightforward statement. What does that mean? How can that be interpreted to say it is okay to have multiple wives, that God condones polygamy?

 

[unobtrusive]

Law clearly makes rules for polygamy and so accepts it as such.

If Law was against polygamy, it would be "Man will have only one wife", not "If a man marries another woman etc."

There was never a law that said it was the right thing to do either.

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a)

This is the Word of God. The law never advocated that being a polygamist was permissible. Neither was divorce, but it was allowed because of hard heartedness. It was never God's will to begin with. God created "1" wife for Adam, not 2, or 3 or 4 etc.

Solomon had hundreds and look where it got him. By the next generation Israel was on her way out because of total corruption.

In the New testament Paul makes it clear that we have a choice as to whether we will do work to support the church or disregard that to fulfil the lust of the flesh. After all, aren’t "bishops" placed in the church to be an example of righteousness to the rest of the congregation?

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

 

[trofimus]

There was never a law that said it was the right thing to do either.

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a)

This is the Word of God. The law never advocated that being a polygamist was permissible. Neither was divorce, but it was allowed because of hard heartedness. It was never God's will to begin with. God created "1" wife for Adam, not 2, or 3 or 4 etc.

Solomon had hundreds and look where it got him. By the next generation Israel was on her way out because of total corruption.

In the New testament Paul makes it clear that we have a choice as to whether we will do work to support the church or disregard that to fulfil the lust of the flesh. After all, aren’t "bishops" placed in the church to be an example of righteousness to the rest of the congregation?

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

You again got everything out of the context.

Just read Dt 17:17 in context and you will see what it is about.

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, "You are not to go back that way again."
He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.
Dt 17:17 NIV

This verse is just saying that the purpose of the king is to rule over people and not to misuse this position for an accumulation of riches.

 

[trofimus]

The law clearly makes rules for how to treat murderers, also, but that does not mean murdering is being condoned. Do not multiply wives for yourself. That is a straightforward statement. What does that mean? How can that be interpreted to say it is okay to have multiple wives, that God condones polygamy?

Dear Magenta,

you know that your answer is totally wrong, do not you?

1. Law says "do not murder" (to everybody)

2. Law says "Let the king does not take many wives" (only to king and without a definition of "many". Two are generally not supposed to be "many", for example)

 

[Magenta]

Dear Magenta,

you know that your answer is totally wrong, do not you?

1. Law says "do not murder" (to everybody)

2. Law says "Let the king does not take many wives" (only to king and without a definition of "many". Two are generally not supposed to be "many", for example)

Dear Trofimus (truly)... law says do not commit adultery. Jesus says adultery happens when one looks upon a woman with lust. If the law says, do not take many wives, that does not in any way equate to God approving the taking of many wives. Some men would have a woman a day if they could, if not more The law seeks to protect people from sin, though it is weakened in the flesh, as the Scriptures say.

Eight wives of David are mentioned in Scripture by name, but he married others besides. I think that may count for many. Solomon also had seven hundred wives plus hundreds of concubines. That surely seems to be many to me, yet he was a king also, and so he and his father both went against the law you provided. Kings are supposed to set the example for their people, same as elders in the church, who are forbidden to have more than one wife. An indisputable qualification for an elder is to be above reproach. That explicitly includes having only one wife. Therefore, having more than one is reproach worthy.

 

[trofimus]

Dear Trofimus (truly)... law says do not commit adultery. Jesus says adultery happens when one looks upon a woman with lust. If the law says, do not take many wives, that does not in any way equate to God approving the taking of many wives. Some men would have a woman a day if they could, if not more The law seeks to protect people from sin, though it is weakened in the flesh, as the Scriptures say.

Eight wives of David are mentioned in Scripture by name, but he married others besides. I think that may count for many. Solomon also had seven hundred wives plus hundreds of concubines. That surely seems to be many to me, yet he was a king also, and so he and his father both went against the law you provided. Kings are supposed to set the example for their people, same as elders in the church, who are forbidden to have more than one wife. An indisputable qualification for an elder is to be above reproach. That explicitly includes having only one wife. Therefore, having more than one is reproach worthy.

Truly dear Magenta,

I would not mix words of Jesus and the requirements for elders in the Church with the OT rules and laws.

For example, divorce was allowed by the Law, but is not in the New covenant.

Moral standards of Christians are higher than moral standards under the Law. You gave one example of that (adultery vs thinking of adultery, murder vs hate = murder already etc).

 

[unobtrusive]

You again got everything out of the context.

Just read Dt 17:17 in context and you will see what it is about.

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, "You are not to go back that way again."
He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.
Dt 17:17 NIV

This verse is just saying that the purpose of the king is to rule over people and not to misuse this position for an accumulation of riches.

How many wives will Jesus have during His reign on earth. Is not having more than one spiritually comparable to the "doctrine of Baalam?" I think so.

"And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God." (Revelation 19:9)

Having more than one wife does not exemplify the deity of Christ according to Paul.

"For this cause shall a man (singular) leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife (singular), and they two shall be one (singular) flesh.This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ (singular) and the church (singular)." (Ephesians 5:31-32)

"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Corinthians 15:34)

Under the New Covenant we are all of the "Royal Priesthood," i.e. supposedly we are leaders. At least we are to bear itness of the truth. Jesus has only ONE bride. and that's that. (smile)

 

[trofimus]

How many wives will Jesus have during His reign on earth. Is not having more than one spiritually comparable to the "doctrine of Baalam?" I think so.

"And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God." (Revelation 19:9)

Having more than one wife does not exemplify the deity of Christ according to Paul.

"For this cause shall a man (singular) leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife (singular), and they two shall be one (singular) flesh.This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ (singular) and the church (singular)." (Ephesians 5:31-32)

"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Corinthians 15:34)

We are not talking about Christ and church...

 

[unobtrusive]

correction

Under the New Covenant we are all of the "Royal Priesthood," i.e. supposedly we are leaders. At least we are to bear witness of the truth. Jesus has only ONE bride. and that's that. (smile)