Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

[BillG]

Man, I agree about this entertainment stuff! I read about a pastor that was preaching before their big dinner, and not many were there. Went downstairs after the service and the dinner hall was loaded with people waiting to eat. LOL!!!!!!! Puts a new light on Jesus telling the false followers that the only reason they were following him was because he gave them something to eat - John 6.

Isaiah 55:1-3
Chapter 55
An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.

nuff said

 

[Nehemiah6]

I too believe in confessing sin but NOT in order to receive forgiveness...

Does this even make any spiritual or theological sense? Or is confession just a little Christian game (similar to going to a Catholic confessional). Why in the world would anyone confess their sins if not for forgiveness? Please note carefully what James says in his epistle, which pertains to BELIEVERS and not the unsaved (James 5:15,16)

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

In this context, the sinning saint is confessing his sins to the elders gathered to pray for his healing (v.14), but in reality he is confessing to God, since only God can forgive sins. And that is when he receives forgiveness. But that is a present forgiveness for present sins.

So for anyone to claim that they confess their present sins but NOT for forgiveness is false doctrine, and very harmful to those who may be babes in Christ.

..because I believe the gospel message of Christ that in Christ I have redemption the forgiveness of sins just like Paul said in Eph. 1:7. Col. 1:6

James too believed and taught the Gospel message. When a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and receives Him as Lord and Savior with genuine repentance, all his past sins are "remitted" or forgiven. But even though Christ paid the full penalty for all of our sins, Christians cannot (1) deny that even after the New Birth they do sin, and (2) that the Bible clearly teaches that the saints are to acknowledge and confess their sins with repentant hearts in order to receive forgiveness and have fellowship restored.

I am not sure how this false teaching that you are promoting has come about, but you have no biblical basis for claiming that confession by Christians is not for forgiveness. It is not simply a little game.

 

[NayborBear]

lolzzz...well, was hoping you'd clear that up. Sorry, but it was really hard to follow. But hey, maybe you can write code for National security!

Alrighty? I'll try to oblige ya here, preacher.

Agreed.....There are blind pastors that really have no business pastoring.

Disagree...There are good pastors, that the "fear of exposing" powers and principalities, rulers of darkness, Within, a particular "congregation" would cause that congregation, (church building itself) to cease to exist. So, in "preventing" this from happen good pastors out thereing? ! of 2 things happen...The pastor "gets with the program" complies to these wishes, and stays?...Or, starts sending out resumes!

The rest was examples of different kinds of "hirelings" that a believer may encounter at any particular church building.

Bottom line, is there are good pastors out there. Not all are blind...Not all are hirelings.

Alhough, the good ones seem very few and far between.

 

[preacher4truth]

Does this even make any spiritual or theological sense? Or is confession just a little Christian game (similar to going to a Catholic confessional). Why in the world would anyone confess their sins if not for forgiveness? Please note carefully what James says in his epistle, which pertains to BELIEVERS and not the unsaved (James 5:15,16)

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

In this context, the sinning saint is confessing his sins to the elders gathered to pray for his healing (v.14), but in reality he is confessing to God, since only God can forgive sins. And that is when he receives forgiveness. But that is a present forgiveness for present sins.

So for anyone to claim that they confess their present sins but NOT for forgiveness is false doctrine, and very harmful to those who may be babes in Christ.


James too believed and taught the Gospel message. When a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and receives Him as Lord and Savior with genuine repentance, all his past sins are "remitted" or forgiven. But even though Christ paid the full penalty for all of our sins, Christians cannot (1) deny that even after the New Birth they do sin, and (2) that the Bible clearly teaches that the saints are to acknowledge and confess their sins with repentant hearts in order to receive forgiveness and have fellowship restored.

I am not sure how this false teaching that you are promoting has come about, but you have no biblical basis for claiming that confession by Christians is not for forgiveness. It is not simply a little game.

Yeah, well, you're wasting your time. Hyper-grace has gotten into his mind and certain texts neutralize other texts. By the way, to confess sin, but not for forgiveness? The epitome of arrogance, un-biblical teaching and self-deception.

 

[oldethennew]

this is just waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much to swallow or believe someone could say
such a thing, and believe it....

Lord Jesus, please have mercy...

 

[oldethennew]

this is just waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much to swallow or believe someone could say
such a thing...

this is outright 'denial' that Jesus is our constant Intercessor, sitting on the Right Hand of God,
to intercede for us when we come to Him in repentance and over-coming...

Lord Jesus, please have mercy...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No. He convinces the believer that what the believer is doing is sin.

it's not my op and I didn't ask the question

I simply reposted the op because it has been diverted to the favorite topic of easy gracers...law vs grace

we also now have the opinion that Jesus taught law and so we should listen to Paul

that opinion regarding Jesus, was first introduced some weeks back and now it is being parroted

 

[Meggido]

Does this even make any spiritual or theological sense? Or is confession just a little Christian game (similar to going to a Catholic confessional). Why in the world would anyone confess their sins if not for forgiveness? Please note carefully what James says in his epistle, which pertains to BELIEVERS and not the unsaved (James 5:15,16)

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

In this context, the sinning saint is confessing his sins to the elders gathered to pray for his healing (v.14), but in reality he is confessing to God, since only God can forgive sins. And that is when he receives forgiveness. But that is a present forgiveness for present sins.

So for anyone to claim that they confess their present sins but NOT for forgiveness is false doctrine, and very harmful to those who may be babes in Christ.


James too believed and taught the Gospel message. When a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and receives Him as Lord and Savior with genuine repentance, all his past sins are "remitted" or forgiven. But even though Christ paid the full penalty for all of our sins, Christians cannot (1) deny that even after the New Birth they do sin, and (2) that the Bible clearly teaches that the saints are to acknowledge and confess their sins with repentant hearts in order to receive forgiveness and have fellowship restored.

I am not sure how this false teaching that you are promoting has come about, but you have no biblical basis for claiming that confession by Christians is not for forgiveness. It is not simply a little game.

Some believe there is no need for relational forgiveness because grace covers it all...

 

[Meggido]

Alrighty? I'll try to oblige ya here, preacher.

Agreed.....There are blind pastors that really have no business pastoring.

Disagree...There are good pastors, that the "fear of exposing" powers and principalities, rulers of darkness, Within, a particular "congregation" would cause that congregation, (church building itself) to cease to exist. So, in "preventing" this from happen good pastors out thereing? ! of 2 things happen...The pastor "gets with the program" complies to these wishes, and stays?...Or, starts sending out resumes!

The rest was examples of different kinds of "hirelings" that a believer may encounter at any particular church building.

Bottom line, is there are good pastors out there. Not all are blind...Not all are hirelings.

Alhough, the good ones seem very few and far between.

I will also add there are very, very few that truly flow in the anointing....

 

[Meggido]

Yeah, well, you're wasting your time. Hyper-grace has gotten into his mind and certain texts neutralize other texts. By the way, to confess sin, but not for forgiveness? The epitome of arrogance, un-biblical teaching and self-deception.

relational forgiveness was taught by Jesus himself....

 

[wolfwint]

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

Yes! He does. Who else convict you if you are doing sin?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

this is just waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much to swallow or believe someone could say
such a thing, and believe it....

Lord Jesus, please have mercy...

well this is exactly what I have been posting about!

and we have those who just have to chime in, who do NOT know what is actually going on here, and think we have blown up the thread

hyper-grace is a sickness in the body of Christ and this same person has now begun teaching what Limey is repeating

BOTH these teachings come from G7

both teachings should be banned from the site. they are not the gospel, they are insidious and confusing those who are young in the faith

 

[stonesoffire]

I will also add there are very, very few that truly flow in the anointing....

In some circles are many.

 

[Meggido]

well this is exactly what I have been posting about!

and we have those who just have to chime in, who do NOT know what is actually going on here, and think we have blown up the thread

hyper-grace is a sickness in the body of Christ and this same person has now begun teaching what Limey is repeating

BOTH these teachings come from G7

both teachings should be banned from the site. they are not the gospel, they are insidious and confusing those who are young in the faith

The other one promoting this on this site is the poster Joaniemarie, she is constantly posting Joseph Prince devo's and I think, directly against a directive from 2 mods...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

relational forgiveness was taught by Jesus himself....

that ties in nicely with 'Jesus taught the law so we don't have to apply what He taught'

G7 has introduced this as well

this is not the gospel; it is another Jesus, a false gospel and the lie of the devil

this is the same question from the garden of eden 'has God really said?'

we are now hearing:

'has God really said we need to ask for forgiveness?'

'do we really have to listen to Jesus when He taught the law?'

why is this being allowed here?

 

[Grace777x70]

Does this even make any spiritual or theological sense? Or is confession just a little Christian game (similar to going to a Catholic confessional). Why in the world would anyone confess their sins if not for forgiveness? Please note carefully what James says in his epistle, which pertains to BELIEVERS and not the unsaved (James 5:15,16)

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

In this context, the sinning saint is confessing his sins to the elders gathered to pray for his healing (v.14), but in reality he is confessing to God, since only God can forgive sins. And that is when he receives forgiveness. But that is a present forgiveness for present sins.

So for anyone to claim that they confess their present sins but NOT for forgiveness is false doctrine, and very harmful to those who may be babes in Christ.


James too believed and taught the Gospel message. When a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and receives Him as Lord and Savior with genuine repentance, all his past sins are "remitted" or forgiven. But even though Christ paid the full penalty for all of our sins, Christians cannot (1) deny that even after the New Birth they do sin, and (2) that the Bible clearly teaches that the saints are to acknowledge and confess their sins with repentant hearts in order to receive forgiveness and have fellowship restored.

I am not sure how this false teaching that you are promoting has come about, but you have no biblical basis for claiming that confession by Christians is not for forgiveness. It is not simply a little game.

I see that James is saying to people to confess your sins to each other in context - this is not confessing to God in order to be forgiven but in order for them to be healed.

Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. James 5:16

Verse 15 is simply saying for the one coming for prayer that their sins have been forgiven. This would soothe their conscience and be able to receive form God through what Jesus has already accomplished by His death on the cross and resurrection.

Show me all the scriptures in the New Covenant that say the believer needs to confess sins in order to receive forgiveness after confessing that they do have sins in order to be a new creation in Christ?

You would think that in order for "believers" to keep having forgiveness - it would be all over Paul's letters to the churches - but there is not one mention of it anywhere. It would be of paramount importance.

The only one that is in the New testament is 1 John 1:9 and that has been shown to be in context speaking to gnostics who believed that Jesus did not come in the flesh and that they didn't have any sins.

Here are the posts for you or others to check out on this subject.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ct-born-again-believer-sin-4.html#post3264776

This one looks at the "confession of sin - in order to receive forgiveness "after" becoming a new creation in Christ.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ct-born-again-believer-sin-5.html#post3264995


Here is another one of a well-known hymn writer that got the revelation of 1 John 1:7 where the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Christ.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ct-born-again-believer-sin-5.html#post3265003


Here is a complete breakdown of the 1st chapter of 1 John with the "infamous and only scripture" in the New testament that speaks of confessing sins in order to receive cleansing and have righteousness.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ct-born-again-believer-sin-6.html#post3265130

 

[Grace777x70]

The other one promoting this on this site is the poster Joaniemarie, she is constantly posting Joseph Prince devo's and I think, directly against a directive from 2 mods...

You have already been shown multiple times what was said by CS1 and yet you still deceitfully say this above?

As for JoanieMarie and the devotionals from Prince - she was told that she could use them by the owner of CC. This has been told multiple times too and yet people still deceitfully say the types of things like you have just said.


Here is what was said below and the "term - hyper-grace" was not to be used because of the behavior of people and because some members were starting threads attacking ministers.

Quote:

BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue .

And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1

"Hyper Grace " and preachers of the doctrine on CC

And yet - despite the requests of the Mods - many people still are bringing up the term "hyper-grace" in threads such as has happened in this one.

 

[Meggido]

You have already been shown multiple times what was said by CS1 and yet you still deceitfully say this above?

As for JoanieMarie and the devotionals from Prince - she was told that she could use them by the owner of CC. This has been told multiple times too and yet people still deceitfully say the types of things like you have just said.


Here is what was said below and the "term - hyper-grace" was not to be used because of the behavior of people and because some members were starting threads attacking ministers.

Quote:

BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue .

And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1

"Hyper Grace " and preachers of the doctrine on CC

And yet - despite the requests of the Mods - many people still are bringing up the term "hyper-grace" in threads such as has happened in this one.

And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

yeah but the difference here is that you and your lady friend post things from well Known Hyper grace preachers and that is the no-no...or at least used to be...see the bold red and please stop posting things from Paul Ellis and let your lady friend know not to do the same with Joseph Prince...

 

[Grace777x70]

In order to keep the deceitful lies from going on and the constant "twists" of what is really being said- I will post this again about the words of Jesus.

Jesus taught the law to those that needed to hear the law so that He could expose their self-righteousness and He taught grace to those that saw their need for a Savior.

I have always said that the words of Jesus need to be viewed to whom He was speaking to at the time. Jesus was born under the law so that He might redeem those that were under the law.

The words of Jesus brought life to those that saw their need of a Savior and it also brought death to those that were self-righteous - like the Pharisees.

To those that knew they needed Him - He gave them words of grace but not to those that relied on their own self-righteousness and law-keeping - He spoke the Law to them to expose their need of a Savior.

When Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and calling them "Vipers" - we don't put Jesus' words unto us His children.

Don't take someone else's medicine. That is mis-applying the words of Jesus.

All the words of Jesus are to be viewed "in the context" they were given and all scripture needs to be filtered through the revelation of the finished work of Christ after the cross and resurrection.

This is why we don't tell people to keep the 10 commandments now that we are in the New Covenant if they want to inherit eternal life like Jesus told the ruler who thought he had kept the commandments from his youth.

But Jesus' words are "never irrelevant".

Here is a view of Matthew 6 and forgiveness through the finished work of Christ. I like to use this site sometimes as it has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. Many of us have the same questions.

Quote:

Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15)

The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.

So why did Jesus say this:

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)

This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.

1. Jesus is preaching law

As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.

Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.

The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.

Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.

2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)

Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.

Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:

In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)

Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.

It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.

And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)

Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.

“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross!

To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).

The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”

Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!

3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need

What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.

However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).

Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.

It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!

The followers of Jesus still know that He has the words of eternal life!

Unquote:

Here is the link below if anyone is interested in looking at the questions from others about this article. Bless you!

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/08/...tthew-6v14-15/

 

[Grace777x70]

And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

yeah but the difference here is that you and your lady friend post things from well Known Hyper grace preachers and that is the no-no...or at least used to be...see the bold red and please stop posting things from Paul Ellis and let your lady friend know not to do the same with Joseph Prince...

The difference is that the mods wanted to stop people from bringing up the term "hyper-grace" in a posts and from people starting threads "about preachers". This was because of the "foul behavior" exhibited by some people.

And I am not going to discuss it further because it is against the requests of the mods to keeping bringing up this subject.

Speak to the scriptures that speak about forgiveness and the blood of Jesus and people can discuss those. Not the constant mis-representing and deceitful behavior of some and bringing up derogatory terms to cause strife and division. That's what causes chaos in these threads.

Have a great day!