Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

The Bible says the Spirit gives us this assurance by bearing witness with our own spirits...we are sons of God....

Yes indeed it does.........thank God!

 

[Rosemaryx]

I truly do believe this...I know I get things wrong sometimes, and I am grateful to those of you who have taught me so much from Gods word...Many of you who post Scripture has given me an opportunity to check things out for myself, I can go as far as saying that I have ended up doing little bible studies from peoples post, but please forgive me if my post are not always correct, it`s not that I am blinded, I am just learning Gods truth...I hope you will all have patience with me and that God will give me the confidence to keep posting in here, to me this is the most important thread because it deals raw to the core of all those who are in Christ Jesus, and for those who think that works save, then this is the place to learn that they do not, apart from our bibles...God bless us all, I am sorry if I upset anyone with my post, I just want to learn...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

I truly do believe this...I know I get things wrong sometimes, and I am grateful to those of you who have taught me so much from Gods word...Many of you who post Scripture has given me an opportunity to check things out for myself, I can go as far as saying that I have ended up doing little bible studies from peoples post, but please forgive me if my post are not always correct, it`s not that I am blinded, I am just learning Gods truth...I hope you will all have patience with me and that God will give me the confidence to keep posting in here, to me this is the most important thread because it deals raw to the core of all those who are in Christ Jesus, and for those who think that works save, then this is the place to learn that they do not, apart from our bibles...God bless us all, I am sorry if I upset anyone with my post, I just want to learn...xox...

You upset no one.....the bad thing about text on a page...the inability to see facial expression....

 

[stonesoffire]

Wow, confusion reigneth huh?

We examine ourselves to remain in faith. Faith in what He says to us personally, and in His promises.

It is Holy Spirit who puts the searchlight on our hearts. If we are resting in His work, we are abiding.

One cannot do the works out of our own being, but out of our be ing in Him. If not? We are yet in iniquity...self which will never please God, for it is faith that pleases Him.

How to do this? By the example of Jesus. He only did what He saw, and said what He heard. Union.

Is just that simple. The one word to explain? Anointing.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You upset no one.....the bad thing about text on a page...the inability to see facial expression....

ohhhhhhhhh ive clashed heads soooo many times over semantics or lack of expression via pixels

 

[Meggido]

Yeah I just got back from a month in Australia and while there a man who believed in the loss of salvation went to the go to phrase of all who say you can lose it.....You just believe that because or so you can sin all you want and it won't matter....I raked him over the coals because I am sick of that lie being spread by those who devalue the work of Christ and his shed bold on our behalf......and then after four rounds of truth in context he opened his eyes to the truth....no matter how one slices and dices...the following truths must be rejected, denied, swept under the rug and in so doing makes Jesus into a liar and inept if one can lose or forfeit salvation...

a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith
b. Jesus will complete the good work he began in us
c. We are saved to the uttermost
d. We are KEPT by the power of God
e. We are in the Sons hand and he will LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up the last day
f. We are in the Father's hand
g. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise unto the DAY of redemption (see E)
h. We are born again of INCORRUPTABLE SEED
I. Christ continually intercedes for us before the Father
j. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound
k. We are chastened as sons and not REJECTED
l. A son by BIRTH CANNOT be undone
m. WHAT GOD does is EVERLASTING (Ecclesiastes 3:14) including SALVATION
n. We have ETERNAL life NOT temporary
o. VERB tense as applied unto our salvation and eternal life
p. The promise to NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
q. Salvation is a gift through grace that cannot be earned or maintained by any work
r. Our justification is based upon FAITH void of works (see O)
s. Our sanctification in Christ is EVERLASTING (see O and Hebrews 10:10, 14)

AND on and on and on and on.....

I do not see that OSAS/ES actually give a license or justification for people to sin....I do see that this doctrine does create spiritually lazy people, who will never grow, but that could be said for many doctrines....but it seems to be more prevalent in eternal security camps than others....

 

[stonesoffire]

This is life in the Spirit when ministering. We also have our own lives to live. So we keep life in balance and don't get super spiritual about our ordinary life we live. Throughout our days we get opportunities to speak and do.

Dont ge things confused.

 

[Rosemaryx]

You upset no one.....the bad thing about text on a page...the inability to see facial expression....

Thank you DC...My heart was troubled after I made them post and you replied...I know you love the Lord our God with a passion, I took your correction as a telling off and then went away and thought about it...I thought if I upset you then I have upset others, thank you for your reply, it has brought peace...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

Truthtalks

I saw your post to grace777. There is a website that has free materials to download.

Latest e-Sword Downloads, Modules, Utilities, and News - e-Sword News, Downloads, and Forums - www.BibleSupport.com

You need this software to download into. e-Sword | Home It is free too, but a small donation is appreciated for upkeep.

You might be be able to find what you want this way. But, if not, there are many programs similar.

 

[Meggido]

We all use deductive reasoning based upon what people say concerning what they read and watch... and my comments were based upon her words and what she said she had gleaned from watching it......and if you will notice my verbiage bro....I did not state it as a fact, but rather it "SEEMS as if he does based upon the confusion it has sown" <--as applied unto her comments....

Thanks for the advice....

cool...not stirring it up....

 

[BillG]

One other point, many are so bound by their past, they see everything through this prism,
as if their past defines their future.

Being born again is about leaving the past behind and stepping forward into the unknown.

Evening PJ,

Yes people can be and are defined by their past which can and does define their future.

That is why we need mature Godly people to come alongside with good solid biblical discipleship.
Children of God need to know their past has been forgiven and any hurts, pains can be healed.

 

[Limey410v2]

Hi NNM...I just sat and watched this and it really opened my eyes to more understanding...It sure does take away the osas and I can see why...We must live our life out day by day , obeying Christ, obeying His commands, love like Him, and not grieve the Holy Spirit because when we do, we will not have His Spirit to comfort us, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives us our assurance of salvation...A lot of people think that once they are saved, that`s it, but in reality they become deceived, salvation is a process lived day by day, moment by moment, and I will read 1 John this evening, so much to learn from it, and I now understand why osas is not written in the bible, thank you for this post...xox...

Hi Rosemary,

He didn't really take away OSAS, he just gave it additional teeth, he doesn't minimize the initial transaction, He really just qualifies it.
He is very specific about the Spirit not leaving us, when we are saved. Even if we grieve the Holy Spirit, He won't leave us. He describes the warnings and admonitions, but not a punishment for those that are truly His. (Punishment being loss of salvation)

Once we are a true child of God, it is Him that does the work within us.

I don't want you coming away from this message thinking he said it is up to us to maintain salvation, because he didn't.
His message is not really we MUST obey, but that when He dwells within us and we abide in Him, we WILL obey, that we will be drawn closer to Him relationally. Its not "we stop sinning and we get closer", it's "we get closer and stop sinning", there is a difference! You see one is us as the conqueror, one is Him as the conqueror.

You see it is still all about Him, what He did on the cross, and what He does inside of us with the Holy Spirit.

I hope I'm not nit picking at you. He explained the Gospel extremely well. Not doubt about that.

OSAS is not specifically in the bible, its a doctrine that is drawn from evidence found in the scriptures. But on that note loss of salvation for the believer is also not in the bible, that is how we draw conclusions. Lots of evidence that says we won't lose salvation, and no evidence that we can.

Eg: Protestant is not in the Bible, but most on this forum are Protestant.(I think)

I hope this helps a little, it sounds a little convoluted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it seems to me

that these people will go to hell if they die that way


but it also seems to me

these people never had faith in God

only a god they made up

or a dead faith with head knowledge

Yes, that is what the message is about, those in church who think they are saved but never were, Who will on that day profess all the works they did. And Jesus will say depart. For I never knew you

 

[Rosemaryx]

I agree, but we NEED to be very careful because it is not always that cut and dry....let me explain.....Obviously Peter was a saved child of God yes?

and yet Peter went back to FISHING and DENIED the Lord 3 times....yet never lost his salvation and after seeing the Lord proclaimed himself a sinner and chunked himself into the sea because of his nakedness before the Lord.....MANY people who are genuinely saved had had low moments where their faith waivered and or seemed to be gone yet were saved....remember Elijah.....go ahead and Kill me LORD.....God said. "Get up and shut up, I have yet reserved unto myself 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal"

Even Jesus had a moment of weakness but did not completely fail...FATHER, if it be possible let this cup pass from me<--His humanity coming out. <---Yet a smoldering ember he shall not be quenched<--his faith not put out though it be nut a smoldering ember......

The same is true of all believers.....they may have very weak moments where they seem to have lost faith, but in reality they are saved and will be brought back into the fold....Jesus will leave the 99 to go find the one that has wandered off.......

A fine line and only God can truly judge for sure because the flip side is those who were never really saved and only had a pretentious show of faith..........and not the real deal

Thank you DC for explaining this to me...It has opened my eyes even more, and yes that word pretentious is the false believers, they can only pretend for so long then they fall back to their unbelieving state, they were never giving Gods calling, because God knows those who are His, phew , I just learned something else...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not see that OSAS/ES actually give a license or justification for people to sin....I do see that this doctrine does create spiritually lazy people, who will never grow, but that could be said for many doctrines....but it seems to be more prevalent in eternal security camps than others....

That maybe the case, but that is not what the bible teaches as applied unto eternal security.....I have sat under 3 pastors in my life, maybe 4.....and 3 did not preach a lazy but doctrine....and the doctrine of security dose not teach anyone anything....it is the preachers they sit under that fills their heads right?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG...Yes I see that in 1 John 19 ...And I read that I have eternal life because what our Father has taught me is how I abide in the Son, not me myself abiding, i now see why DC wrote my line in HUGE letters ...I abide in Jesus because God causes me to abide, it`s not from my own doing, I am learning and thank you for your patience...xox...

Yes, you did not attach you to the vine, and you can not break yourself from the vine (as far as eternal life goes? Got attached you, and it is up to him to keep you attached.

And learning is what we all do amen sis, Glad you are learning.

 

[Meggido]

That maybe the case, but that is not what the bible teaches as applied unto eternal security.....I have sat under 3 pastors in my life, maybe 4.....and 3 did not preach a lazy but doctrine....and the doctrine of security dose not teach anyone anything....it is the preachers they sit under that fills their heads right?

I see what youa re syaing here....it comes down to honest faith filled belief, right?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he doesnt like ONCE SAVED always saved

because of the wording and how often it is used to justify sin

he changed it to WHEN SAVED always saved because its not of ourselfs

the reason she said the other stuff is probably because right after that he went into convicting the decieved into how to know


and encouraging believers that if you have seen the Holy spirit work in your life

that God is going to LEAD you and perfect what HE started

It is basically the same thing, he just changed terms.

I do not like them either, I just like to use the word eternal life. Or eternal security. That way it takes a doctrine of man out of the equation. (A lot hate OSAS just because of calvin.)

 

[Meggido]

Yes, you did not attach you to the vine, and you can not break yourself from the vine (as far as eternal life goes? Got attached you, and it is up to him to keep you attached.

And learning is what we all do amen sis, Glad you are learning.

Why are you teaching dualism of John 15?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG...I have so much to learn...This morning God showed me what it means to have faith in Him,now I know my salvation does not come from anything I do, I have no faith in myself, only in God , and He will work out all things for me, He will grow me, teach me, show me His paths, and I will follow His lead...I have assurance from Christ that I am saved, I have no doubt because I believe and trust everything He is telling me, I am nothing without Him, but from watching that vid the NNM posted, it brought to mind those who believed once but never abided in Him, but you say they were never saved to begin with...My faith is in my Lord Jesus Christ, He has assured me eternal life and I believe that, and I tell you what, I feel at this moment in my walk with Christ, I should just stick with all the promises He has for me and stay away from nets that people get caught up in unless I find myself in one through my own doing...I know I am saved, my faith is in Christ, and nothing can separate me from the love of God...I think I sometimes jump ahead of myself, taking lead and coming up with nought, Jesus does not want that, as long as I listen to Him, be led by the Holy Spirit then I can walk in His peace...xox...

Yes! And never let go of this. Satan wants your to think salvation can be lost. And he will use the deception that if you think you can never lose salvation, you are excusing sin as a reason to get you to believe it, Because it sounds good. It sounds right, I guess you can say it looks like a lamb, but actually it is a wolf dressed as a lamb. Which most of his lies are.

Keep looking to christ. As john said, the reason for our faith is KNOWING we have eternal life. If we think it can be lost. Our faith will fail. Because it is in our ability to abide and keep ourselves from falling, and not in Gods ability to make sure his promise comes true.