How can you really really really know you are saved?
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Okay, okay, okay. I believe Christians are 100% totally, fully, completely, no matter what may happen, no matter when it happens, how it happens or why it happens are covered by grace. Except those who do not believe the scriptures as we do. They are the ones who are clearly under a false sense of assurance not us on cc, not us of course. Those foolish Mormons, JW and other cults, why can't they see their assurance is false and ours is right.
Now please put down the tattoo pen and walk away from my forehead, you have convinced me.
Now please put down the tattoo pen and walk away from my forehead, you have convinced me.
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Hi, DJ2, thank you for your correction on the purpose of the Ivory Tower example, I was searching for some way to show that in my view you are not focused on the right issue; if you want to prove a negative true, a false assurance, study true assurance instead of the false; and the bible gives proof of our assurance of; forgiveness of sin, reconciled to God, a place in heaven.
I became mature in my faith with Jesus about the same time the Jim Jone's massacre happened in Guyana; all of those innocent people drank that poisoned cool aide and perished. After the terrible fact of this mass murder I began to read up on subjects like, mind control and what is a cult. Like I said before I am just and average person who love's Jesus but I continue to be cautious of where I go to learn and study the bible and worship.
Well I also need to tell that I have stage 4 prostate cancer that can only be treated but there is not a cure; when I have run out of choices of treatment and I become refractory then I pray there will be a place for me in heaven. My bible say's I have assurance and you say it is not 100 percent assured. I believe the verdict is in and because of the blood sacrifice of Jesus you and I can have assurance of salvation and a place in heaven. is it a 100 percent guaranteed, my faith tells me yes but you say
no one can know for sure, 100 percent.
The rich young ruler said to Jesus; then who can be saved; Jesus replied, "What is impossible with man is possible with God." Luke18:27
I pray you find peace and assurance, God bless.
I became mature in my faith with Jesus about the same time the Jim Jone's massacre happened in Guyana; all of those innocent people drank that poisoned cool aide and perished. After the terrible fact of this mass murder I began to read up on subjects like, mind control and what is a cult. Like I said before I am just and average person who love's Jesus but I continue to be cautious of where I go to learn and study the bible and worship.
Well I also need to tell that I have stage 4 prostate cancer that can only be treated but there is not a cure; when I have run out of choices of treatment and I become refractory then I pray there will be a place for me in heaven. My bible say's I have assurance and you say it is not 100 percent assured. I believe the verdict is in and because of the blood sacrifice of Jesus you and I can have assurance of salvation and a place in heaven. is it a 100 percent guaranteed, my faith tells me yes but you say
no one can know for sure, 100 percent.
The rich young ruler said to Jesus; then who can be saved; Jesus replied, "What is impossible with man is possible with God." Luke18:27
I pray you find peace and assurance, God bless.
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It's not a matter of only "head knowledge" completely, at least not in my experience. It was THE supernatural event of being reborn that gave me my assurance, and from what I've gathered on my walk so far this is the case with many others as well. That is a very hard thing to explain to someone that hasn't had it happen to them yet, I have found, and know I fall very short when trying to explain it to others. I didn't get my assurance by reading the Bible, it backs up everything I did experience, but God Himself is who gave me that assurance. I can't help but feel you're just seeing the whole thing wrong. I had an encounter with the true and living Creator of the universe that left my jaw agape in awe for a month or better after realizing "it's all REAL". I tried to explain it in the earlier post, but you just brushed it off as if what God does for each of us means nothing when we share it. The assurance you seek and/or are asking about can only come from Him, does that not make sense?
N
https://youtu.be/Va8CHEolahI
this is a video
that im listening to right now DJ
maybe watch it if you have time
im like 15 minutes in
and it sounds VERY close to our talk so far
this is a video
that im listening to right now DJ
maybe watch it if you have time
im like 15 minutes in
and it sounds VERY close to our talk so far
If assurance comes from having a "supernatural event" then true assurance is impossible. It is a "very hard thing to explain to someone" because feelings are not trustworthy. One persons "supernatural event" may be a voice in their head, another may be visions or dreams of assurance and others warm fuzzy feelings. The reliance on personal experience in place of the Word of God causes chaos.
What does it mean when a "personal experience" does not match scripture? For most people it means they must are looking at the wrong verses or misunderstanding them, since they will not deny the "personal experience". They will continue to search for something to back up their experience but the experience will not be denied. No logic, common sense or scripture will make them change their mind, hence the danger of "personal experience".
Your post in rather common among many here.
Scripture backs up their experiences not experiences backs up scripture.
Your sentence, "I didn't get my assurance by reading the Bible, it backs up everything I did experience, but God Himself is who gave me that assurance." is telling.
The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard. You are not alone in this line of reasoning.
What does it mean when a "personal experience" does not match scripture? For most people it means they must are looking at the wrong verses or misunderstanding them, since they will not deny the "personal experience". They will continue to search for something to back up their experience but the experience will not be denied. No logic, common sense or scripture will make them change their mind, hence the danger of "personal experience".
Your post in rather common among many here.
Scripture backs up their experiences not experiences backs up scripture.
Your sentence, "I didn't get my assurance by reading the Bible, it backs up everything I did experience, but God Himself is who gave me that assurance." is telling.
The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard. You are not alone in this line of reasoning.
As the young rich ruler observed in John 3 it is impossible for a man to enter a second time into his mothers womb to be born again by natural means.
The new birth by grace through faith in Jesus Christ is a supernatural event. The word of God is my standard and the Holy Spirit is my guide into the truth of the scriptures not my personal feelings.
I have feelings because it is impossible to be a new creature and having all things to be new to me and not feel different. The old things I knew and was comfortable with are now replaced with newness of life in Christ. 2 Cor 5
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The new birth by grace through faith in Jesus Christ is a supernatural event. The word of God is my standard and the Holy Spirit is my guide into the truth of the scriptures not my personal feelings.
I have feelings because it is impossible to be a new creature and having all things to be new to me and not feel different. The old things I knew and was comfortable with are now replaced with newness of life in Christ. 2 Cor 5
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would defiantly say if one's supernatural experience does not line up with scripture then reject it without pause, and I do believe that there are many supernatural experiences one can experience that are definitely NOT of God. Do you just deny all supernatural things in general, or just when a Christian claims God gave them one? Salvation itself is a supernatural event, you're a Christian and deny this? Where you ever made new and born again? Jesus says this must take place to see the kingdom of God.
Are you suggesting we just read the Bible and blindly accept it with no real thought or prayer to God? If so I say that's a good way to join a false religion, and/or get your lunch eaten for you. The God I serve is living, VERY real, and lets us KNOW He is the truth. That's the only way I can say right here and now I would chose death before renouncing Christ, how I can say that I am THANKFUL for losing my arm in that wreak, and is the only way I can even start to understand how and why Christians have done the same the last 2000 years. Why do you think they have consistently done this and died horrible deaths if "true assurance is impossible" through personal experience, as you so boldly put it. I say it's the ONLY way we could get true assurance. It's not impossible for me, or for us Christians.
You make so many assumptions for me it's very hard to have a conversation with you. You come asking question yet seem to already have a view you will not be swayed from. Almost like you just want to argue. It also seems you want to pin your lack of any assurance on everyone else and are only out to reject anything you hear. I understand I can't "show" OR "convince" you of anything I've experienced or of my salvation, the same way you can't do the same to anyone else, but to say things to me like "Your sentence, "I didn't get my assurance by reading the Bible, it backs up everything I did experience, but God Himself is who gave me that assurance." is telling."
and
"The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard. You are not alone in this line of reasoning."
Is just insulting, full of false assumptions, and VERY close minded. Are you suggesting God does not or can not reach out to us? Are you saying that no supernatural experiences exist, and/or God no longer uses them on us? Are you just calling me a liar and denying my salvation? Or are you just mad because you haven't had one so you have to demean others and write them of as if they are just "wackadoo"?
Yes the experience I'm talking about is what opened my eye's, assured me God was real, and saved me. It is also what convinced me that beyond a shadow if a doubt that I could trust His word above EVERYTHING else, so see when you say crap like "The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard", you truly have NO CLUE what you're talking about. Then when you say things like "true assurance is impossible" makes me think you should be questioning your salvation not mine.
Are you suggesting we just read the Bible and blindly accept it with no real thought or prayer to God? If so I say that's a good way to join a false religion, and/or get your lunch eaten for you. The God I serve is living, VERY real, and lets us KNOW He is the truth. That's the only way I can say right here and now I would chose death before renouncing Christ, how I can say that I am THANKFUL for losing my arm in that wreak, and is the only way I can even start to understand how and why Christians have done the same the last 2000 years. Why do you think they have consistently done this and died horrible deaths if "true assurance is impossible" through personal experience, as you so boldly put it. I say it's the ONLY way we could get true assurance. It's not impossible for me, or for us Christians.
You make so many assumptions for me it's very hard to have a conversation with you. You come asking question yet seem to already have a view you will not be swayed from. Almost like you just want to argue. It also seems you want to pin your lack of any assurance on everyone else and are only out to reject anything you hear. I understand I can't "show" OR "convince" you of anything I've experienced or of my salvation, the same way you can't do the same to anyone else, but to say things to me like "Your sentence, "I didn't get my assurance by reading the Bible, it backs up everything I did experience, but God Himself is who gave me that assurance." is telling."
and
"The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard. You are not alone in this line of reasoning."
Is just insulting, full of false assumptions, and VERY close minded. Are you suggesting God does not or can not reach out to us? Are you saying that no supernatural experiences exist, and/or God no longer uses them on us? Are you just calling me a liar and denying my salvation? Or are you just mad because you haven't had one so you have to demean others and write them of as if they are just "wackadoo"?
Yes the experience I'm talking about is what opened my eye's, assured me God was real, and saved me. It is also what convinced me that beyond a shadow if a doubt that I could trust His word above EVERYTHING else, so see when you say crap like "The Word of God is not your standard, your personal experiences are your standard", you truly have NO CLUE what you're talking about. Then when you say things like "true assurance is impossible" makes me think you should be questioning your salvation not mine.
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To Jimbone and Notuptome:
It would be not wise to allow personal experience into a subject of such importance as salvation. The experiences of man, no matter how conviced you are that they are from God, have no bearing on salvation. Jesus never told anyone to look to their feelings or personal experiences as a guide to salvation. This kind of reasoning leaves to chaos. If you doubt this you are rather naive..
Salvation is based on the Word of God not our verifiying our personal experiences against the Bible. Your feelings of salvation does not equal assurance. I do not know how simplier I can make this.
Our ability to fool ourselves knows no bounds. Even the smartest, holiest and sincerest among us can be duped by what we think we experience.
Many churhes are built on this reasoning. Mary Eddy Baker, David Koresh. Sun Myung Moon and others all had "personal experiences" and they all verified their experiences against the scriptures and surpise their supernatural experiences were in line with the Bible.
Paul wrote in 2nd Tim. 3:15-17 that the scriptures were to make the man of God equipped for every good work.
No mention of personal supernatural experiences.
It would be not wise to allow personal experience into a subject of such importance as salvation. The experiences of man, no matter how conviced you are that they are from God, have no bearing on salvation. Jesus never told anyone to look to their feelings or personal experiences as a guide to salvation. This kind of reasoning leaves to chaos. If you doubt this you are rather naive..
Salvation is based on the Word of God not our verifiying our personal experiences against the Bible. Your feelings of salvation does not equal assurance. I do not know how simplier I can make this.
Our ability to fool ourselves knows no bounds. Even the smartest, holiest and sincerest among us can be duped by what we think we experience.
Many churhes are built on this reasoning. Mary Eddy Baker, David Koresh. Sun Myung Moon and others all had "personal experiences" and they all verified their experiences against the scriptures and surpise their supernatural experiences were in line with the Bible.
Paul wrote in 2nd Tim. 3:15-17 that the scriptures were to make the man of God equipped for every good work.
No mention of personal supernatural experiences.