How can you really really really know you are saved?
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1 Jn 1:5-10
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV
1 Jn 2:8-11
8 However, the command I now write you is new, because its truth is seen in Christ and also in you. For the darkness is passing away, and the real light is already shining.
9 If we say that we are in the light, yet hate others, we are in the darkness to this very hour.
10 If we love others, we live in the light, and so there is nothing in us that will cause someone else to sin.
11 But if we hate others, we are in the darkness; we walk in it and do not know where we are going, because the darkness has made us blind.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV
1 Jn 2:8-11
8 However, the command I now write you is new, because its truth is seen in Christ and also in you. For the darkness is passing away, and the real light is already shining.
9 If we say that we are in the light, yet hate others, we are in the darkness to this very hour.
10 If we love others, we live in the light, and so there is nothing in us that will cause someone else to sin.
11 But if we hate others, we are in the darkness; we walk in it and do not know where we are going, because the darkness has made us blind.
Look man, you obviously don't get it and I'm obviously not explaining it well, but you don't get to dictate these things. I do understand what you're saying and actually agree with you to a very large degree, but I am not talking about a "glory cloud" or being "drunk in the spirit" here. I am talking about hitting my knees one day wanting nothing but death, pouring my soul out in anguish, and basically letting my pride die there on the floor at a point I wasn't even sure a wanted to believe all this "God stuff" anymore, if I ever truly had in the first place. The next day I woke up all new, a whole new creature just like 2 Cor 5:17 says, not even knowing why, but I KNEW 2 things #1 it was from God, #2 Jesus was His Son. Just like-
John 15:26
When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--He will testify about Me.
says, do you deny this? This was also when I first truly picked up His word and started reading it, hungry for truth, THE ONLY truth.
Romans 8:15-16 also goes on to say
15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
This also tells me that what happen that night was that God saved me, made me new, and His Spirit indwelt me. Do you have the authority and omniscience to tell me it was not God that did these things that come strait from His word? You are overstepping your pay-grade here man and honestlydenying the Holy Spirits work in me, as if you can even know that.
Again I think you should stop worrying about my salvation and others, and stop making comments like " Your feelings of salvation does not equal assurance", and " Jesus never told anyone to look to their feelings or personal experiences as a guide to salvation. This kind of reasoning leaves to chaos. If you doubt this you are rather naive". Especially because this is not what I'm saying AT ALL!
Just because YOU haven't experienced rebirth, which I would be worried about personally, because if you deny that Gods power makes us all new in a VERY life changing and VERY evident and supernatural way, (that we experience) then you have not been saved my friend, and would make sense why YOU have no assurance. Everything I'm talking about is strait from the word of God and if you are categorically denying it, then it is you that are naive not us that have been born again of Spirit. Please, please, please, stop telling me what my experiences and walk with God does and does not mean to me, these are things you can't possibly know man. Also again I understand what you're talking about, but I'm not here declaring that feathers falling from the ceiling are "proof" of God, or that me swinging my jacket at a group of people to knock them down is either, you have me grouped in with the wrong crowd here, I agree with you on these points, and if you'd ask questions and honestly listen to the answers you would know that I'm not basing my whole faith on these kind of tricks.
The only thing I am declaring is that God made me new when I was broken at my lowest and knew "I" could no longer do life myself, He made me all new in a very radical and supernatural way that I could not deny, nor could those closest to me. Honestly I would expect something like this from an all powerful God, and it turns out this is EXACTLY what the Bible describes from start to finish. Yet you seem to think you can tell me I'm just stupid and God did not do these very things in my life and I should just shut up, read my Bible and "decide that I'm saved and go through life with no assurance. Well I'm so sorry buddy, but God did save me EXACTLY how I'm testifying He did and I will proclaim His truth until He brings me to Himself. The fact you seem to think you can tell me how God has and has not worked in my life is so ridiculous I don't really even know how to address it, so if your still just trying to teach and argue with me after this comment then I wish you well, will pray God shows you He is real without any doubt, and gives you the assurance and comfort Jesus promised us all soon. Have a good day man.
John 15:26
When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--He will testify about Me.
says, do you deny this? This was also when I first truly picked up His word and started reading it, hungry for truth, THE ONLY truth.
Romans 8:15-16 also goes on to say
15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
This also tells me that what happen that night was that God saved me, made me new, and His Spirit indwelt me. Do you have the authority and omniscience to tell me it was not God that did these things that come strait from His word? You are overstepping your pay-grade here man and honestlydenying the Holy Spirits work in me, as if you can even know that.
Again I think you should stop worrying about my salvation and others, and stop making comments like " Your feelings of salvation does not equal assurance", and " Jesus never told anyone to look to their feelings or personal experiences as a guide to salvation. This kind of reasoning leaves to chaos. If you doubt this you are rather naive". Especially because this is not what I'm saying AT ALL!
Just because YOU haven't experienced rebirth, which I would be worried about personally, because if you deny that Gods power makes us all new in a VERY life changing and VERY evident and supernatural way, (that we experience) then you have not been saved my friend, and would make sense why YOU have no assurance. Everything I'm talking about is strait from the word of God and if you are categorically denying it, then it is you that are naive not us that have been born again of Spirit. Please, please, please, stop telling me what my experiences and walk with God does and does not mean to me, these are things you can't possibly know man. Also again I understand what you're talking about, but I'm not here declaring that feathers falling from the ceiling are "proof" of God, or that me swinging my jacket at a group of people to knock them down is either, you have me grouped in with the wrong crowd here, I agree with you on these points, and if you'd ask questions and honestly listen to the answers you would know that I'm not basing my whole faith on these kind of tricks.
The only thing I am declaring is that God made me new when I was broken at my lowest and knew "I" could no longer do life myself, He made me all new in a very radical and supernatural way that I could not deny, nor could those closest to me. Honestly I would expect something like this from an all powerful God, and it turns out this is EXACTLY what the Bible describes from start to finish. Yet you seem to think you can tell me I'm just stupid and God did not do these very things in my life and I should just shut up, read my Bible and "decide that I'm saved and go through life with no assurance. Well I'm so sorry buddy, but God did save me EXACTLY how I'm testifying He did and I will proclaim His truth until He brings me to Himself. The fact you seem to think you can tell me how God has and has not worked in my life is so ridiculous I don't really even know how to address it, so if your still just trying to teach and argue with me after this comment then I wish you well, will pray God shows you He is real without any doubt, and gives you the assurance and comfort Jesus promised us all soon. Have a good day man.
To Jimbone:
I most certainly do get it and you are certainly explaining yourself well.
Regardless of what you say it is not, "glory cloud" or "drunk in the spirit", you are labeling your experiences as supernatural, are you not? This is your choice of words not mine. For me to either accept or reject your claims is meaningless, I was not there.
I do not deny that the Holy Spirit can and has worked in the lives of Christians but those like you who use personal experiences as a proof-text on forums like this are wrong. As I mentioned before and you ignored, people have used your line of reasoning and I reject their reasoning as well.
This is the disconnect that personal experience followers do not understand. I do not deny or agree with your claims, I simply reject the use of personal experiences as proof of God's involvement in an event.
I will ask the same question of you. Do you, Jimbone have the 'authority and omniscience" to tell anyone that the things you experienced came straight from God? Must we accept your claims of what you label as works of the Holy Spirit as true? Am I overstepping my pay-grade by not believing you? This is clearly what you are implying.
I never once said I was worried about your salvation, I don't even know you. My words you quoted are quite true, experiences should never be used to gauge or verify our salvation and you certainly did suggest that in your post.
When it comes to "rebirth", you have no knowledge of what I have or have not experienced. I have never said I have no assurance, this is something you have made up. I have assurance that the Bible is the Word of God not because of wishful thoughts of supernatural experiences but because as Isaiah 1:18 states "come let us reason together". I have never witnessed a supernatural event yet I believe. My faith is based strictly on the Word of God not experiences, something you by your own words cannot say.
When searching for truth I do not seek out experiences but as the Bereans, I search the scriptures. Experiences come and go, our view of them may change with time but "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and light unto my path".
I have not grouped you with anyone, I am but commenting on your words. Again, I cannot comment on your supernatural experiences, I did not see them but I did not call you "stupid" or any such thing nor did I tell you to "shut up". You are clearly using hyperbole.
You may have 100% guaranteed assurance of salvation but it does not come from experiences or feelings, it must come from the Word of God. This is the point of the thread. Many have shown assurance exist but not how we can personally know our assurance is not a sincere but false assurance.
I most certainly do get it and you are certainly explaining yourself well.
Regardless of what you say it is not, "glory cloud" or "drunk in the spirit", you are labeling your experiences as supernatural, are you not? This is your choice of words not mine. For me to either accept or reject your claims is meaningless, I was not there.
I do not deny that the Holy Spirit can and has worked in the lives of Christians but those like you who use personal experiences as a proof-text on forums like this are wrong. As I mentioned before and you ignored, people have used your line of reasoning and I reject their reasoning as well.
This is the disconnect that personal experience followers do not understand. I do not deny or agree with your claims, I simply reject the use of personal experiences as proof of God's involvement in an event.
I will ask the same question of you. Do you, Jimbone have the 'authority and omniscience" to tell anyone that the things you experienced came straight from God? Must we accept your claims of what you label as works of the Holy Spirit as true? Am I overstepping my pay-grade by not believing you? This is clearly what you are implying.
I never once said I was worried about your salvation, I don't even know you. My words you quoted are quite true, experiences should never be used to gauge or verify our salvation and you certainly did suggest that in your post.
When it comes to "rebirth", you have no knowledge of what I have or have not experienced. I have never said I have no assurance, this is something you have made up. I have assurance that the Bible is the Word of God not because of wishful thoughts of supernatural experiences but because as Isaiah 1:18 states "come let us reason together". I have never witnessed a supernatural event yet I believe. My faith is based strictly on the Word of God not experiences, something you by your own words cannot say.
When searching for truth I do not seek out experiences but as the Bereans, I search the scriptures. Experiences come and go, our view of them may change with time but "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and light unto my path".
I have not grouped you with anyone, I am but commenting on your words. Again, I cannot comment on your supernatural experiences, I did not see them but I did not call you "stupid" or any such thing nor did I tell you to "shut up". You are clearly using hyperbole.
You may have 100% guaranteed assurance of salvation but it does not come from experiences or feelings, it must come from the Word of God. This is the point of the thread. Many have shown assurance exist but not how we can personally know our assurance is not a sincere but false assurance.
N
Okay one last time, and maybe you will actually answer me on a few things this time because it's obviously your words I'm not understanding here. First please explain to me exactly what being born again is, exactly is, in your view?
You say "This is the disconnect that personal experience followers do not understand. I do not deny or agree with your claims, I simply reject the use of personal experiences as proof of God's involvement in an event."
First off I wasn't telling you what to do, or how to get assurance for yourself, simply testifying how God did it for me, YOU are the one that asked "Can we have assurance" then "how", my simple answer was "Only from God can we get this assurance", do you disagree with this? Then I did share how He gave me this assurance personally, that you by the way have said multiple times is impossible.
You're right you never said "we can't have assurance at all", only you've gone out of your way to tell EVERYONE in this thread that their 100% assurance isn't possible many times. Can you tell me the difference between the two?
Can you at least understand how I could come to the conclusion that you are saying we can't have this assurance, and deducted from your arguments that you don't have it?
You said "When searching for truth I do not seek out experiences", can you please show me where I said everyone should seek experiences? Can you point me to the comment where I said that's what I did? I didn't even say I was seeking anything when I experienced rebirth, I was just broken and had lost all faith in myself, at the time God saved me I wasn't even sure I wanted to believe He existed anymore, if I ever truly did in the first place. So to clarify one last time for you EXACTLY what I meant one last time. The experience of rebirth I had, meaning waking up an all new creature with all new priorities, all new desires, and KNOWING God did it and Jesus was His Son is what lead me to His word, and gave me the ASSURANCE that He was the ONLY way, the ONLY truth, and the ONLY LIFE. This is how and why "I", "ME", "IN MY CASE" know I can stand on His word, and why I live my life now to point others to Him. Do you disagree with this being what His word describes? If so please show me anything I'm saying contradicts His word. I did not seek an experience, got it? I wasn't looking for it, and was in complete shocked awe when He gave it to me, and it's done nothing but make me hungry for His word everyday since (5 years).
Can you please tell me where I'm being so naïve, and yes you haven't called me "stupid", but the way you've spoken to me the WHOLE TIME suggest such. So please for the sake of my soul, and by your great wisdom and insight, please tell me where I'm so wrong, deceived, and have no assurance.
One last time you act like you're God with a comment like this "You may have 100% guaranteed assurance of salvation but it does not come from experiences or feelings". I'm sorry but you're WRONG, it was the experience of my rebirth, my radical, overnight, witnessed by everyone around me, changed from the inside out, made all new, "road to Damascus" experience EXACTLY that gave me that assurance, assurance God was real, assurance Jesus is God the Son, assurance I was saved, and assurance that His word is Truth. So I'm sorry buddy, but you are dead wrong in this case, also just for you, that doesn't mean I'm saying "seek an experience to be saved", or that I sought one and was saved through that, it's me saying that is how God gave me that assurance. You still think you can argue it wasn't?
I have asked many questions I would truly like you to answer for once, but regardless if you do or do not answer them please at least try to understand what I'm saying, because you have it SO wrong up to this last comment.
You say "This is the disconnect that personal experience followers do not understand. I do not deny or agree with your claims, I simply reject the use of personal experiences as proof of God's involvement in an event."
First off I wasn't telling you what to do, or how to get assurance for yourself, simply testifying how God did it for me, YOU are the one that asked "Can we have assurance" then "how", my simple answer was "Only from God can we get this assurance", do you disagree with this? Then I did share how He gave me this assurance personally, that you by the way have said multiple times is impossible.
You're right you never said "we can't have assurance at all", only you've gone out of your way to tell EVERYONE in this thread that their 100% assurance isn't possible many times. Can you tell me the difference between the two?
Can you at least understand how I could come to the conclusion that you are saying we can't have this assurance, and deducted from your arguments that you don't have it?
You said "When searching for truth I do not seek out experiences", can you please show me where I said everyone should seek experiences? Can you point me to the comment where I said that's what I did? I didn't even say I was seeking anything when I experienced rebirth, I was just broken and had lost all faith in myself, at the time God saved me I wasn't even sure I wanted to believe He existed anymore, if I ever truly did in the first place. So to clarify one last time for you EXACTLY what I meant one last time. The experience of rebirth I had, meaning waking up an all new creature with all new priorities, all new desires, and KNOWING God did it and Jesus was His Son is what lead me to His word, and gave me the ASSURANCE that He was the ONLY way, the ONLY truth, and the ONLY LIFE. This is how and why "I", "ME", "IN MY CASE" know I can stand on His word, and why I live my life now to point others to Him. Do you disagree with this being what His word describes? If so please show me anything I'm saying contradicts His word. I did not seek an experience, got it? I wasn't looking for it, and was in complete shocked awe when He gave it to me, and it's done nothing but make me hungry for His word everyday since (5 years).
Can you please tell me where I'm being so naïve, and yes you haven't called me "stupid", but the way you've spoken to me the WHOLE TIME suggest such. So please for the sake of my soul, and by your great wisdom and insight, please tell me where I'm so wrong, deceived, and have no assurance.
One last time you act like you're God with a comment like this "You may have 100% guaranteed assurance of salvation but it does not come from experiences or feelings". I'm sorry but you're WRONG, it was the experience of my rebirth, my radical, overnight, witnessed by everyone around me, changed from the inside out, made all new, "road to Damascus" experience EXACTLY that gave me that assurance, assurance God was real, assurance Jesus is God the Son, assurance I was saved, and assurance that His word is Truth. So I'm sorry buddy, but you are dead wrong in this case, also just for you, that doesn't mean I'm saying "seek an experience to be saved", or that I sought one and was saved through that, it's me saying that is how God gave me that assurance. You still think you can argue it wasn't?
I have asked many questions I would truly like you to answer for once, but regardless if you do or do not answer them please at least try to understand what I'm saying, because you have it SO wrong up to this last comment.
Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 does address a denial from Jesus Christ as saying He never knew them, but do consider the reason why He had said that. It is because they were workers of iniquity. It was not because they were never saved.
In the context of the two references; Luke 13:24-30 puts it as God judging His House from which many saved believers & former believers will be left behind for not having departed from iniquity at the pre trib rapture event whereas those found abiding in Him as His disciples gets to sit down with the O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper.
Follow this truth.
Any work of iniquity denies Him.
Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Now any work of iniquity that denies Him, He will deny them. See? But take note, He still abides even in former believers.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
So the act of denying saved believers by Jesus Christ is because they were workers of iniquity at the time of the pre trib rapture event and thus had not looked to Him as their Good Shepherd to discern & depart from iniquity for which they will be reprobate as in disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper and thus become castaways which is to be left behind.
Here is a warning to the saints at Thyatira in the Book of Revelation to that effect.
Revelation 2:[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
They are still His for why He addressed each church in Revelation to prepare themselves or else.
Luke 12:[SUB][SUP] [/SUP][/SUB][SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? [SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Note verses 47 -28 as signifying those left behind as still His servants in receiving stripes.
That is why this call is put out to even former believers to go to Jesus for help to discern the lies and the iniquity to depart from them in being ready to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. [SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [SUP] 9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
So trust the Lord as your Good Shepherd in helping you discern and to depart from iniquity.
1 John 3:3[SUP] [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8[SUP] [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
In the context of the two references; Luke 13:24-30 puts it as God judging His House from which many saved believers & former believers will be left behind for not having departed from iniquity at the pre trib rapture event whereas those found abiding in Him as His disciples gets to sit down with the O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper.
Follow this truth.
Any work of iniquity denies Him.
Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Now any work of iniquity that denies Him, He will deny them. See? But take note, He still abides even in former believers.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
So the act of denying saved believers by Jesus Christ is because they were workers of iniquity at the time of the pre trib rapture event and thus had not looked to Him as their Good Shepherd to discern & depart from iniquity for which they will be reprobate as in disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper and thus become castaways which is to be left behind.
Here is a warning to the saints at Thyatira in the Book of Revelation to that effect.
Revelation 2:[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
They are still His for why He addressed each church in Revelation to prepare themselves or else.
Luke 12:[SUB][SUP] [/SUP][/SUB][SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? [SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Note verses 47 -28 as signifying those left behind as still His servants in receiving stripes.
That is why this call is put out to even former believers to go to Jesus for help to discern the lies and the iniquity to depart from them in being ready to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. [SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [SUP] 9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
So trust the Lord as your Good Shepherd in helping you discern and to depart from iniquity.
1 John 3:3[SUP] [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8[SUP] [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
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Other than addressing the point of contention of "I never knew ye" in post # 389, the fact that you believe in Him, even at one time, the scripture says you are saved, because our believing in Him is a work of God the Father Himself when no man can come to the Son unless the father draws Him ( John 6:44 ) and it is the Father that reveals His Son so we can believe in Him ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) and so our believing in Him is proof that we are saved because even that is a work of God ( John 3:18-21 )