Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#35,481
Dec 12, 2013
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#35,481
preacher4truth said:
On Platonism? Where did this blessed event happen?

And if this is what you're referring to, the context was that Plato had some negative effect on Christianity, as if he influenced it with false doctrine. That was my issue, plus the lies propagated on Spurgeon, Calvin &c. (not like the person doesn't do this often anyhow, and when called for proof disappears and avoids)

There is no need to go on about the other until you offer proof of authorities who hold to your teaching on 1 John 2:19. The Scripture is quite clear, they were false converts, the proof came via their departure. You've gone out on a limb to attempt, feebly so, to make the text mean something different altogether. But this happens when a person needs the Scripture to back them up when it doesn't.
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I am still thinking the simplest answer fits.....tares that never believed who left.....all I know is they were NEVER saved....NEVER had faith and then fell away and lost that which is unlosable.......

save as the ones who came before Jesus pushing works.....HE never knew them....they were never saved which goes to the root of salvation....we can rightfully conclude that their view was that their works had earned them the right to enter and they claimed to have faith by claiming to know Jesus and Paul hits this in Galatians....faith plus works = false gospel
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
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Dec 28, 2016
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#35,482
Meggido said:
And there it is..........dear reader, this is translated to mean....I have no way to counter or defend the truths posted I challenged somebody to produce so now I will play the Wizard of Oz routine and beg you...do not look behind the curtain...nothing to see...

Just another Calvinist emperor without clothes....
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So you bowed out, again, because you have nothing to back up your beliefs. You won't answer because you can't answer.

My posts, as any honest person can attest, are nothing as you describe them to be, but were reasonable, and frankly dismantle your belief system.
 
M

Meggido

Banned
#35,483
May 12, 2017
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#35,483
preacher4truth said:
So you bowed out, again, because you have nothing to back up your beliefs. You won't answer because you can't answer.

My posts, as any honest person can attest, are nothing as you describe them to be, but were reasonable, and frankly dismantle your belief system.
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You could not dismantle water falling out of a boat....
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#35,484
Dec 28, 2016
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#35,484
Meggido said:
You could not dismantle water falling out of a boat....
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See, you resort to this callow behavior because you have nothing to defend your beliefs with.

Now, get your last word in, make sure you're consistently callow for all to witness.

Thanks.
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35,485
#35,485
Meggido said:
Bill and I are wondering the same thing....I never claimed the people talked about in 1 John 2.19 were saved and then fell away...I always maintained they were gnostic and never believed in the first place and left the fellowship of the Apostles, because they were discerned to be Gnostic and were never really part of the saved believers...

What I am gathering from EG is he thinks they were unnoticed false teachers with the spirit of antichrist church who pretended to be saved, and pulled people away from Christ and when they were discovered they were forced from he church and were never saved to begin with...and at one point he pointed to the fact they were the tares...

The context does not support this conclusion...
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well as usual you gathered wrong. Not even close.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35,486
#35,486
Meggido said:
I agree, they never had salvation......Next?
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Yep. Which means people who claimed to hae faith, then lost believe and became against christ were never saved.

End of discussion.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
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Jul 17, 2017
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dcontroversal said:
Why do I feel like I hear dueling banjos playing in the background HAHAHHAHAH dada ding ding ding ding ding ding ding HAHAHAHAH ching ching ching swish parry thrust ching ching ching HAHAHHAHAHAH I love this place............. ;)
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[video=youtube;1tqxzWdKKu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8[/video]

Traditional Americana Music
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#35,489
Dec 12, 2013
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#35,489
TruthTalk said:
[video=youtube;1tqxzWdKKu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8[/video]

Traditional Americana Music
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Hilarious......If I had to watch that movie I would eat a bullet.......... HAHA and yeah, that is what I thought about HAH.....
 
G

garee

Banned
#35,490
Mar 28, 2016
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#35,490
Originally Posted by Meggido

And there it is..........dear reader, this is translated to mean....I have no way to counter or defend the truths posted I challenged somebody to produce so now I will play the Wizard of Oz routine and beg you...do not look behind the curtain...nothing to see...

Just another Calvinist emperor without clothes....
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Calvin is dead what would he have to do with the living word of God?

From those I have experienced that others might call Calvinist they understand the spiritual meaning hid in the parable found in James 2:2-7.as to what it signifies The righteousness of Christ that clothes His bride the church like the Sun.

Having the faith of Christ, the faith of God in respect to the emproror of Rome (Pope) or other denomination that insist we need a man to teach us shows the same thing every time . Blaspheming the holy name by which we are called heavenward .

They are shown in the in the Hebrews six boat as those who simply hope in dead works as faith towards God. The Christian faith the mutual faith that works in any belivers comes from Him. Not dead works offered towards him.

What is your take on the parable below...

For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? Jam 2:2

What does it mean not to have the faith of Christ the same faith that comes from hearing the living abiding word of God in respect to sinners? Would it cause blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

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Feb 24, 2015
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#35,491
There was a way of thinking about faith.
For some it is like an out of body experience, not associated with them.

Now Jesus says it will be obvious, a light on a hill.
If you fail to Love me, then my friends you have not begun.

Jesus came to show He is not fake but He cares, and can help you be part of
His kingdom. If this does not testify in your heart, have you been listening to Him.
Rich or poor, old or young, what determines how you behave?

Your heart and what it dwells on. Who determines what is of value and what is not?
Salvation is selfish in some ways, but love without limits is not. People dedicate their
lives to bring love and life to others. You would think from how some share this is all
empty, rather than a reflection of our creator and his influences.

There is only one side, serving His will. Value the preciousness of this and blessing will
flow. Those who think fighting enemies wins, do not see they have become the enemy
themselves. It is easy to get lost in hurts and proof, rather than letting the cross minister
to who you are. He came for you and me and that is all we need.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#35,492
Feb 24, 2015
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#35,492
eternally-gratefull said:
Yep. Which means people who claimed to hae faith, then lost believe and became against christ were never saved.

End of discussion.
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Communion is a better word than salvation. We are lost without this. Funny thing in life is people
will say they know you but when times are hard they are gone. So often hard things prove the value
of where you are. For some this scares them because they are not sure they are anywhere.

My question is simple. Do you love Gods people and God? Yes, you know Gods heart.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#35,493
Dec 12, 2013
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#35,493
PeterJens said:
Communion is a better word than salvation. We are lost without this. Funny thing in life is people
will say they know you but when times are hard they are gone. So often hard things prove the value
of where you are. For some this scares them because they are not sure they are anywhere.

My question is simple. Do you love Gods people and God? Yes, you know Gods heart.
Click to expand...
Ummmmmm, thanks but no thanks....God did not inspire men to use communion (except once and the comparison is between light and darkness)

He inspired the word SALVATION and SAVED

Maybe that is why you miss the mark so much Peter.....you reject inspired words in favor of substituted non-inspired words.....!
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#35,495
Jul 17, 2017
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#35,495
PeterJens said:
There was a way of thinking about faith.
For some it is like an out of body experience, not associated with them.

Now Jesus says it will be obvious, a light on a hill.
If you fail to Love me, then my friends you have not begun.

Jesus came to show He is not fake but He cares, and can help you be part of
His kingdom. If this does not testify in your heart, have you been listening to Him.
Rich or poor, old or young, what determines how you behave?

Your heart and what it dwells on. Who determines what is of value and what is not?
Salvation is selfish in some ways, but love without limits is not. People dedicate their
lives to bring love and life to others. You would think from how some share this is all
empty, rather than a reflection of our creator and his influences.

There is only one side, serving His will. Value the preciousness of this and blessing will
flow. Those who think fighting enemies wins, do not see they have become the enemy
themselves. It is easy to get lost in hurts and proof, rather than letting the cross minister
to who you are. He came for you and me and that is all we need.
Click to expand...
This is common earthly wisdom and not inspired from above, the only thing that rings true is your last sentence, "He came for you and me and that is all we need." As far as your statement about why Jesus came; it was not, "to show He is not fake but He cares, and can help you be apart of His kingdom." plus what determines, "how I behave," it is a loving Father who's Son gave His life on that terrible Cross that I might live; and He came that I might have life abundantly. And lastly the ministry of the Cross is that all may look and be saved, praise God.

There is a place for earthly wisdom and Proverbs say's we should not for get the wisdom of our Mother, but the fact that you say, 'Jesus came for us and that is all we need', gives me hope.

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew16:25,26

If you start with a false premise it will be faulty top to bottom. If you get caught in the false teaching of universalism or any other false ism, back up, go to the door where you came in, and go find a good solid Spirit filled bible teaching Church where you can learn and grow in Christ; and then be committed to that.

God bless
 
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TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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#35,496
[video=youtube;rdT5BK-eqVY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdT5BK-eqVY[/video]

This is Traditional Americana Gospel Music, it is passed down from generation to generation.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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#35,497
TruthTalk said:
This is common earthly wisdom and not inspired from above, the only thing that rings true is your last sentence, "He came for you and me and that is all we need." As far as your statement about why Jesus came; it was not, "to show He is not fake but He cares, and can help you be apart of His kingdom." plus what determines, "how I behave," it is a loving Father who's Son gave His life on that terrible Cross that I might live; and He came that I might have life abundantly. And lastly the ministry of the Cross is that all may look and be saved, praise God.

There is a place for earthly wisdom and Proverbs say's we should not for get the wisdom of our Mother, but the fact that you say, 'Jesus came for us and that is all we need', gives me hope.

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew16:25,26

If you start with a false premise it will be faulty top to bottom. If you get caught in the false teaching of universalism or any other false ism, back up, go to the door where you came in, and go find a good solid Spirit filled bible teaching Church where you can learn and grow in Christ; and then be committed to that.

God bless
Click to expand...
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TruthTalk again.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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#35,498
Hi Preacher, I will always appreciated to convo's we've had, not to worry about the "rep" :)
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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#35,500
Oncefallen posted about it in the other thread. Will Holy Spirit convict the believer.
 
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