Heaven

[Bridie]

Hi all,
I am new here, so if you have gone over this subject before, forgive me. I am currently doing another study on Heaven. I have heard two schools of thought about when we go to heaven: The moment we die, out soul goes to heaven and when we die, we stay in the grave until Christ returns to earth for the second coming. I would love to know what you all think.

Bridget

 

[Blain]

Hi bridie I don't know if the soul just goes to heaven or not but I do think these verses are to be taken into consideration

Corinthians 15:51-52 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.…

1 Thessalonians 4 :16 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

I imagine being dead would be like when your asleep and say that we are in that state of sleep until the day comes when we are all risen for us it might seem like we only just fell asleep because there is no sense of time, but it is also possible that I may be wrong in this

 

[Bridie]

It is confusing, isn't it? There is also a verse ( don't know where ) that says something about "to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ." Even the bible verses are conflicting. THanks for responding Blain.

 

[Blain]

It is confusing, isn't it? There is also a verse ( don't know where ) that says something about "to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ." Even the bible verses are conflicting. THanks for responding Blain.

Well I have been absent from my body before and was taken to the spiritual realm several times so it is possible that verse meant to be absent from the body in the sense to be spiritually absent from the desires of the flesh, or perhaps I am wrong about that.

But I do wonder what happens to our souls once our flesh dies, I mean it is not as if our souls which is of the spiritual is bound by a dead and rotting flesh is it? or perhaps we are taken to a place of rest until the day comes when we are risen from the dead and taken home.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well I have been absent from my body before and was taken to the spiritual realm several times

Wow? Really? You must be really spiritual, and very very gifted, like an apostle. Maybe you are an apostle and don't know it?

Tell us, what did you see?

 

[Blain]

Wow? Really? You must be really spiritual, and very very gifted, like an apostle. Maybe you are an apostle and don't know it?

Tell us, what did you see?

I'm not spiritual nor gifted and I am certainly not an apostle i am that I am, if you have quarrels with my speaking of such things then please pm me as it is rude to derail a person thread

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm not spiritual nor gifted and I am certainly not an apostle i am that I am, if you have quarrels with my speaking of such things then please pm me as it is rude to derail a person thread

How did I derail it when I'm only going off of what you said in your post unless your post derailed the thread itself?

I don't have quarrels with what you said, I just don't happen to believe your story and am looking for elaboration on your alleged trip to heaven.

For the record, this thread is about heaven, you've claimed to have been there to some capacity, which follows the thread title. So, your calling me out about derailing is bogus.

And uncalled for.

I'm then not out of line to ask you to describe this experience that you've claimed.

Tell us about the heaven you saw. This is following the OP. If you don't want challenged as to your stories, then maybe you shouldn't post them, and if you do, fully expect to be challenged.

 

[Blain]

How did I derail it when I'm only going off of what you said in your post unless your post derailed the thread itself?

I don't have quarrels with what you said, I just don't happen to believe your story and am looking for elaboration on your alleged trip to heaven.

For the record, this thread is about heaven, you've claimed to have been there to some capacity, which follows the thread title. So, your calling me out about derailing is bogus.

And uncalled for.

I'm then not out of line to ask you to describe this experience that you've claimed.

Tell us about the heaven you saw. This is following the OP. If you don't want challenged as to your stories, then maybe you shouldn't post them, and if you do, fully expect to be challenged.

I never once claimed to have gone to heaven I said I have been taken to the spiritual realm and also my claim of you derailing the thread is not bogus because we both know this is not about the subject of the op it is about what I said and as I said if you have quarrels with it then please pm me instead though honestly I know nothing I say will satisfy your need for proof.
Now if you don't mind I am going to continue my discussion with Bridget as soon as she wants to because I think this is a good topic to discuss

 

[Prov910]

Hi all,
I am new here, so if you have gone over this subject before, forgive me. I am currently doing another study on Heaven. I have heard two schools of thought about when we go to heaven: The moment we die, out soul goes to heaven and when we die, we stay in the grave until Christ returns to earth for the second coming. I would love to know what you all think.

Bridget

There's a third possibility: Maybe Heaven is a realm that is not subject to linear time like we are. And perhaps you are already in that timeless Heaven. (I don't know that anyone or any church actually believes this. It's just a science fictiony thought I had some time ago. lol)

 

[preacher4truth]

I never once claimed to have gone to heaven I said I have been taken to the spiritual realm

Which is the same claim. As noted, I said you've claimed to have been there to some capacity. But your newest "revelation" is even more unbiblical.

If you put it out there, don't expect everyone to carry you on their shoulders to heaven. I'm going to call any one on their teachings, including you.

Bottom line, I don't buy your story, and none should buy your story, it is even more unbiblical than ever at this point.

 

[Locutus]

Hi all,
I am new here, so if you have gone over this subject before, forgive me. I am currently doing another study on Heaven. I have heard two schools of thought about when we go to heaven: The moment we die, out soul goes to heaven and when we die, we stay in the grave until Christ returns to earth for the second coming. I would love to know what you all think.

Bridget

From a Full Preterist perspective, after the close of the old covenant and the destruction of the temple in the war of 66-70 AD Christians no longer "sleep" in the "grave" at death they are transformed into the spiritual body forever to be with the Lord.

Acts 24:15 (Young's Literal) having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous.

 

[Blain]

There's a third possibility: Maybe Heaven is a realm that is not subject to linear time like we are. And perhaps you are already in that timeless Heaven. (I don't know that anyone or any church actually believes this. It's just a science fictiony thought I had some time ago. lol)

That would make sense actually, I mean time is irrelevant to God and our sense of time and his sense of time are completely different. He is known as the one who was and is and is to come which would indicate that time wise this story of ours from genesis 1 to revelation has already happened in his eyes

 

[Blain]

From a Full Preterist perspective, after the close of the old covenant and the destruction of the temple in the war of 66-70 AD Christians no longer "sleep" in the "grave" at death they are transformed into the spiritual body forever to be with the Lord.

Acts 24:15 (Young's Literal) having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous.

That also could possible because if you notice here

Corinthians 15:51-52 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.…

1 Thessalonians 4 :16 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

They speak as if they themselves will experience this and in the new covenant death was defeated and so it would not surprise me if in a new way of living with God there also is a new way to be in death

 

[preacher4truth]

From a Full Preterist perspective, after the close of the old covenant and the destruction of the temple in the war of 66-70 AD Christians no longer "sleep" in the "grave" at death they are transformed into the spiritual body forever to be with the Lord.

Acts 24:15 (Young's Literal) having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous.

Not against your full preterism or you personally, yet the text was speaking of those contemporaneous to the period prior to 70 A.D., and then is applicable to others, but not out of that specific context imo.

 

[Locutus]

What??

 

[valiant]

Hi all,
I am new here, so if you have gone over this subject before, forgive me. I am currently doing another study on Heaven. I have heard two schools of thought about when we go to heaven: The moment we die, out soul goes to heaven and when we die, we stay in the grave until Christ returns to earth for the second coming. I would love to know what you all think.

Bridget

Paul made the position quite clear in Philippians 1.20-23; 2 Cor 5.1-10.

The body sleeps til the resurrection, but we consciously go to be with the Lord

He also made clear that 'absent from the body, present with the Lord' referred to when we died.

 

[Locutus]

They speak as if they themselves will experience this and in the new covenant death was defeated and so it would not surprise me if in a new way of living with God there also is a new way to be in death

I take those passages as meaning both the Corinthians and Thessalonian would experience the things Paul spoke of in their lifetimes.

 

[Blain]

I take those passages as meaning both the Corinthians and Thessalonian would experience the things Paul spoke of in their lifetimes.

True it very well could mean that I just thought I would give the possibility of what also might have meant for food for thought. They did certainly appear to think this would happen in their life time but it clearly didn't

 

[Locutus]

This is not the thread to get into this - Birdie wanted a simple response - unfortunately the answer is quite "complicated" especially in view of differing eschatologies.

 

[Blain]

This is not the thread to get into this - Birdie wanted a simple response - unfortunately the answer is quite "complicated" especially in view of differing eschatologies.

I wish I had a simple response for her, I admire her studying the subject and hope to somehow help her studies but I fear I may have actually complicated it :/