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When the unrighteous die, their body sees decay. They feel the pain of being turned back into ashes, then their soul goes to torment. When the righteous die they immediately go to Abraham's side, they do not see (experience) decay. So both the righteous and the unrighteous are not literally in their graves. It is a figure of speech, they will come from paradise and from torment before those gathered from the earth for judgement to be pronounced. Then the unrighteous will go to hell, and the righteous will see God's face and immediately turn into the kind of spiritual body He has... is what I'm thinking so far.
God came to one man and the whole world didn't buy that one man's story.
you may not believe blain's story but that does not mean it is not of a truth, for God can show any one person what ever God chooses to show that one person.
And Yes God can show only one person on this planet anything he chooses and that is biblical without a doubt.
you may not believe blain's story but that does not mean it is not of a truth, for God can show any one person what ever God chooses to show that one person.
And Yes God can show only one person on this planet anything he chooses and that is biblical without a doubt.
Both Abraham and Lazarus were under the earth in Sheol/Hades, in that area of comfort/paradise, across from where the rich man was in torment. After Christ's resurrection, the righteous no longer go to that place across from Sheol/Hades, but their spirits go to be in the presence of the Lord. Regarding this see Phil.1:23 and 2 Cor.5:6
On the other hand, at the time of death the unrighteous go to Sheol/Hades and are in torment until the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period. There the books will be opened and they will be held accountable for every sin, every idle word. Anyone's ones name not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.
u are right there are two views. both got their "proof texts". u just hhave to decide which side u take.
what usually is a deal breaker here is what u believe about the soul u see.
if u say God will just bring to extinction and non-existance his enemies, you believe in soul sleep. but if u believe in consciousness after death u will take the rich man and lazarus story literally and people dont go extinction after death. but death is only a separation of soul from the body and the resurrection is those two coming back together u see.
the soul sleep advocates have answers to the absent from the body present with the Lord verse, u can google it
i dont believe in soul sleep because Jesus said to the thief u will be in paradise today, and because in revelation and hebrews it speaks about saints in heaven and a cloud of witnesses to us including the saints u see. but im open minded to any explanation to these, dont really care if there is soul sleep or not.
what usually is a deal breaker here is what u believe about the soul u see.
if u say God will just bring to extinction and non-existance his enemies, you believe in soul sleep. but if u believe in consciousness after death u will take the rich man and lazarus story literally and people dont go extinction after death. but death is only a separation of soul from the body and the resurrection is those two coming back together u see.
the soul sleep advocates have answers to the absent from the body present with the Lord verse, u can google it
i dont believe in soul sleep because Jesus said to the thief u will be in paradise today, and because in revelation and hebrews it speaks about saints in heaven and a cloud of witnesses to us including the saints u see. but im open minded to any explanation to these, dont really care if there is soul sleep or not.
God has given all the revelation He is going to give. God will add to the man all the plagues of the bible if he adds to the word of God.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You speak of judgement and redemption, you may have misunderstood what I was saying, for what I spoke of is a reality "the spirit realm", If God so chooses to show someone of this realm it is between Him and that person.
im not quite sure why you brung up revelation as well posting Hebrew 1,? If I may Sir could you elaborate on that?
im not quite sure why you brung up revelation as well posting Hebrew 1,? If I may Sir could you elaborate on that?
In the Old Testament the saints slept until Jesus came.
When Jesus came,and shed His blood,the Old Testament saints sins were completely washed away,and they rose to be with Jesus.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,which all people who die in the Lord go to be with Him(2 Corinthians 5:8;Revelation 6:9-11).
This current heaven has been tainted with sin by Lucifer,and the fallen angels,and the earth by people,so they will pass away one day,in which the heavens will melt with fervent heat,and the earth shall be burned up,and all that is therein,for all sin must be purged with fire(2 Peter 3:10).
God said that He will create a new heaven,and a new earth,which Jesus said He went to prepare a place for the saints,that where He is the saints may be there also,and the former earth shall not be remembered,or come to mind(Isaiah 65:17,John 14:1-3).
The new earth,the New Jerusalem,shall be a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be(2 Peter 3:13),and the angels,and saints,will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem,for it is associated with sin,and rebellion,and the angels,and saints,will feel like they have always been there,and nowhere else(Revelation 21:1-5).
Sin,and rebellion,will never come up again,and the angels,and saints,to never have choice again,but they are not robots,but they made the choice to do the will of God while they had choice,so they never have to face that again,and all they will know is what is of God,and the flesh is gone,so there is no ways of the flesh,and in the flesh dwells no good thing(Roman 7:18).
The saints prior to the being at the New Jerusalem will receive a glorified body,and they will be soul in a glorified body,like God's glorified body(1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
People are soul,spirit,flesh,and all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless if they followed God,or not(Ecclesiastes 12:7),so the saints will not have the spirit in heaven,and they will put off the flesh for in the flesh there dwells no good thing,so they will not have the flesh in heaven.
The saints will be their soul in a glorified body,for it is the soul that lives forever.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh(1 Timothy 3:16),which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus(John 1:1;14;18,John 3:34,Colossians 2:8-9,Colossians 1:18-19),and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated,and the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God,which God laid down His life for the saints(1 John 3:16),and purchased the Church with His own blood(Acts 20:28).
God glorified that body,and will sit on the throne in the New Jerusalem,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and God will shine through the man Christ Jesus,and light the New Jerusalem,for the Lamb is the light thereof(Revelation 22:3-5:Revelation 21:22-23).
The saints will have glorified bodies like God's glorified body,and will have a higher position in heaven than the angels,for angels are the last in the authority structure of God on earth(1 Corinthians 11:10),and they are ministering spirits sent to minister to all who shall inherit salvation(Hebrews 1:13-14),and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints(1 Peter 1:12).
This present earth,and heaven,will pass away one day,and those who die in the Lord will be with Him right now,and the final destination of the saints will be the New Jerusalem,a new heaven,and earth,where they will have glorified bodies,like the man Christ Jesus' glorified body.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
The man Christ Jesus prayed that the saints could have the same glory that He had at the beginning,and be where He will be,and behold His glory,which is for the saints to receive eternal life,a glorified body,and behold Jesus' glory as He sits on the throne in the New Jerusalem.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood slain from the foundation of the world,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
So the man Christ Jesus can have that glory in the beginning before He actually received it,and the Father can love Him before He is actually born,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.
When Jesus came,and shed His blood,the Old Testament saints sins were completely washed away,and they rose to be with Jesus.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,which all people who die in the Lord go to be with Him(2 Corinthians 5:8;Revelation 6:9-11).
This current heaven has been tainted with sin by Lucifer,and the fallen angels,and the earth by people,so they will pass away one day,in which the heavens will melt with fervent heat,and the earth shall be burned up,and all that is therein,for all sin must be purged with fire(2 Peter 3:10).
God said that He will create a new heaven,and a new earth,which Jesus said He went to prepare a place for the saints,that where He is the saints may be there also,and the former earth shall not be remembered,or come to mind(Isaiah 65:17,John 14:1-3).
The new earth,the New Jerusalem,shall be a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be(2 Peter 3:13),and the angels,and saints,will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem,for it is associated with sin,and rebellion,and the angels,and saints,will feel like they have always been there,and nowhere else(Revelation 21:1-5).
Sin,and rebellion,will never come up again,and the angels,and saints,to never have choice again,but they are not robots,but they made the choice to do the will of God while they had choice,so they never have to face that again,and all they will know is what is of God,and the flesh is gone,so there is no ways of the flesh,and in the flesh dwells no good thing(Roman 7:18).
The saints prior to the being at the New Jerusalem will receive a glorified body,and they will be soul in a glorified body,like God's glorified body(1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
People are soul,spirit,flesh,and all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless if they followed God,or not(Ecclesiastes 12:7),so the saints will not have the spirit in heaven,and they will put off the flesh for in the flesh there dwells no good thing,so they will not have the flesh in heaven.
The saints will be their soul in a glorified body,for it is the soul that lives forever.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh(1 Timothy 3:16),which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus(John 1:1;14;18,John 3:34,Colossians 2:8-9,Colossians 1:18-19),and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated,and the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God,which God laid down His life for the saints(1 John 3:16),and purchased the Church with His own blood(Acts 20:28).
God glorified that body,and will sit on the throne in the New Jerusalem,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and God will shine through the man Christ Jesus,and light the New Jerusalem,for the Lamb is the light thereof(Revelation 22:3-5:Revelation 21:22-23).
The saints will have glorified bodies like God's glorified body,and will have a higher position in heaven than the angels,for angels are the last in the authority structure of God on earth(1 Corinthians 11:10),and they are ministering spirits sent to minister to all who shall inherit salvation(Hebrews 1:13-14),and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints(1 Peter 1:12).
This present earth,and heaven,will pass away one day,and those who die in the Lord will be with Him right now,and the final destination of the saints will be the New Jerusalem,a new heaven,and earth,where they will have glorified bodies,like the man Christ Jesus' glorified body.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
The man Christ Jesus prayed that the saints could have the same glory that He had at the beginning,and be where He will be,and behold His glory,which is for the saints to receive eternal life,a glorified body,and behold Jesus' glory as He sits on the throne in the New Jerusalem.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood slain from the foundation of the world,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
So the man Christ Jesus can have that glory in the beginning before He actually received it,and the Father can love Him before He is actually born,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.
I would like to touch on Bridies theory about the possibility of our souls going to heaven but out bodies being raised when Christ returns.I think it is a possibility however it makes me wonder what the point is, I mean if our souls are in heaven already why do we have our bodies raised? and for that matter can the body be alive without a soul?
Good day Blain!
The answer is that, Jesus resurrected bodily. We are not going to remain in a state without a body to house our spirit/souls. Jesus was resurrected bodily and all those who believe in Him will also be raised bodily. For when He appeared to His disciples they though that they had seen a spirit. But He comforts them saying, "it is I, myself. Look at my hands and feet. At spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have."
Everyone who resurrects will be in their original bodies, immortal and glorified and with heavenly characteristics and with power.
In answer to your question, no, the body cannot be alive without the soul/spirit. It is the spirit/soul reentering the body and it standing up again, that constitutes a resurrection. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" means to "stand up again bodily."
The empty tomb is an example that Jesus rose in the same body that he was crucified in, although immortal and glorified.
The answer is that, Jesus resurrected bodily. We are not going to remain in a state without a body to house our spirit/souls. Jesus was resurrected bodily and all those who believe in Him will also be raised bodily. For when He appeared to His disciples they though that they had seen a spirit. But He comforts them saying, "it is I, myself. Look at my hands and feet. At spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have."
Everyone who resurrects will be in their original bodies, immortal and glorified and with heavenly characteristics and with power.
In answer to your question, no, the body cannot be alive without the soul/spirit. It is the spirit/soul reentering the body and it standing up again, that constitutes a resurrection. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" means to "stand up again bodily."
The empty tomb is an example that Jesus rose in the same body that he was crucified in, although immortal and glorified.
Time to clear this thing up. Paisley_buddie you mentioned that scripture says the dead sleep before the resurrection, yes they do say that.
However you are looking at Scriptures with one eye closed in my opinion.
We also have in Luke 16 rich man and Lazarus who are conscious after death. We have Philippians 1:20-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 and the souls crying out to the Lord in the book of Revelation saying "how long till you avenge us?".
So instead of crossing out and reinterpreting verses let us do this: Accept both.
Our bodies sleep in the dust until resurrection, but "to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord".
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
I think the Scriptures are clear on this, the only way around it is to somehow reinterpret what Paul is saying to mean that he will just sleep in a state of non-existance until the resurrection.
The truth is, our BODIES sleep until the resurrection, but our soul and spirit not so!
However you are looking at Scriptures with one eye closed in my opinion.
We also have in Luke 16 rich man and Lazarus who are conscious after death. We have Philippians 1:20-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 and the souls crying out to the Lord in the book of Revelation saying "how long till you avenge us?".
So instead of crossing out and reinterpreting verses let us do this: Accept both.
Our bodies sleep in the dust until resurrection, but "to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord".
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
I think the Scriptures are clear on this, the only way around it is to somehow reinterpret what Paul is saying to mean that he will just sleep in a state of non-existance until the resurrection.
The truth is, our BODIES sleep until the resurrection, but our soul and spirit not so!
Greetings Paisley_buddie,
If I may, the reference to the "dead sleeping" is only in reference to the body, not the soul/spirit. Please see the following:
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
We also have plenty of scripture demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after death. The rich man and Lazarus is a good proof of this. Both died--their bodies sleeping--yet they found themselves--in spirit--somewhere else.
Notice in the above scripture that, to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.
If I may, the reference to the "dead sleeping" is only in reference to the body, not the soul/spirit. Please see the following:
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
We also have plenty of scripture demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after death. The rich man and Lazarus is a good proof of this. Both died--their bodies sleeping--yet they found themselves--in spirit--somewhere else.
Notice in the above scripture that, to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.