Some help and civility please...rapture??

[Allenbee]

BECAUSE of the separating by our Lord at Math 25; , and especially because I BELIEVE "flee to the mountains" applies to ALL of HIS followers (as it did at AD 66). Well then.... I BELIEVE It is every Christians DUTY, to preach the "Kingdom of God".

Sooooo... I start a new thread... Exodus Today.

RAPURE TODAY... refuse to debate (as we see ), and prefer "eating and drinking and marrying" IN Satan's system, as "THEIR" sin's are forgiven, and they tell GOD "they" are the bride.

Whats going to happen ?

The great tribulation... for sure.

And then;

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (BEFORE the WRATH of GOD).
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: ( what pertrib ), and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit
the KINGDOM prepared for YOU... from the foundation of the WORLD: ( EARTH for sure... NOT heaven)

Is calling yourself holy BY "FAITH"...anything ??? ( "oh i'm born again, i'm going to heaven etc etc").

EXODUS... is FAITH with WORKS;
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

...............................................................................................


Before us a garden of Eden (all invited)... behind us a desolate waste.

Yes... some do go to heaven to rule over us, but the EARTH will become part of YHWH's always expanding universe. AND we will fly too, as approved ones now.

WHAT ELSE...do YOU think this is all about ?

 

[Allenbee]

 

[Allenbee]

 

[Allenbee]

Heaven on earth.

The LORD'S prayer ; ( DO YOU UNDERSTAND... OUR LORD ????
[FONT=&quot]
9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

Yes.... there are many "earths' being developed. SOME become shooting stars, some remain, depending on... MAN !!! The REASON we were created for.

So we join the UNIVERSAL Kingdom of God.

LOOK at the universe, and it never ends, so we... JOIN.

.......................................................................................

Who are YOU... to tell YHWH you are going to "heaven" ???

"The meek.... will inherit the earth".

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that [d]moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is [e]life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

I seek fellowship with these people.

To the rest of you...Goodby then... you know more than GOD !!! [/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

Mat 25
".....and they that were READY went In with Jesus into THE WEDDING CHAMBER"

TWO will be in the field one taken,one left.

Watch and be ready for you know not when the son of God comes.

God preaches be ready. Only ready ones go in the rapture.

What are you preaching?

 

[GaryA]

This places the crucifixion of Christ in the middle of the 70th week.

Which coincides with the "midst of the week" statement in verse 27.

 

[GaryA]

This is when the 2nd resurrection occurs and it will not end well for any of those resurrected.

What about all of those who were saved and died during the millennium?

And - when do they get their Judgment Day?

Do you not believe that the wording of Revelation 20:15 leaves any room for saved people?

i wanna know this too u see. what about them who died during the millennium? this is a question premillennialists must answer u see because they cannot be resurrected in the 2nd, because all of them people go to the second death u see.
but honestly all premillennials should be pre or mid-trib because post-trib has no people left to survive in the flesh to the 1000 kingdom.... sekkluud mon they keep on piling them up. zang on a cloud

I disagree.

That is what my questions ( quoted above ) are intended to "point out"...

If everyone at the Great White Throne Judgment ends up in the lake of fire, when is the Judgment for those saved during the Millennium?

I believe Revelation 20:15 indicates to us that there are both saved and lost people at the Great White Throne Judgment.

In fact, I believe that the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment are one and the same -- they are not two separate Judgments.

"There is going to be only one Judgment, and everybody will be there..."

 

[MarcR]

So what you are suggesting is that there will be no specific and designated time when God will pour out all His judgments upon the unbelieving and the ungodly. But that is not what is revealed in Scripture.

Since Revelation 4 through 18 describe all the events within the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, and at the same time there is no mention of "the Church" or "churches" in these chapters, there is no way that one can interpret the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation as periods of "persecution of the Church". These are times of wrath against the unbelievers and the ungodly.

The Church was under persecution from day one, but Scripture makes it crystal clear that the Great Tribulation is a period of time such as has never been, nor will ever be again. It is also the time when God "shakes" the heavens and the earth. These are all judgments which coincide with the Day of the LORD, and that is clearly a period of judgment on sinners and the ungodly. Indeed, they try to hide from the WRATH OF THE LAMB, and God's wrath will not be directed against His own, since Christ bore that wrath on our behalf.

I hope I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm stating, not suggesting, that the church is taken to heaven before the bowl or trumpet judgements begin.

 

[GaryA]

I believe Revelation 20:15 indicates to us that there are both saved and lost people at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Revelation 20:

[SUP]15[/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


I believe that this statement very directly implies that there will be some who "were" found written in the book of life and who "were not" cast into the lake of fire. It is very straight-forward and 'obvious' to me. And, it certainly makes sense with regard to all of those saved during the Millennium.

I believe it is a false notion that all who are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment are lost.





Who else among you is in agreement with this assessment?

 

[J7]

You are incorrect. That tribulation lasted 7 years, and ended in AD73.

19 [FONT=&quot]And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

[/FONT](Prophesy is not wishy washy either. It has one precise fulfillment. )

You are correct; but we must remember that it is not unusual for prophesy to have dual or multiple fulfillments.

The words translated as tribulation are Tsar Hebrew and Thlipsis Greek. Both mean persecution of God's people by the world.

The tribulation of Mt 13:21 was probably fulfilled both under Nero and again under Vespatian and Titus 70AD, and by Diocletian 245AD

The great tribulation of Mt chapter 24 is probably identical with the end time tribulation of Revelation; which probably refers to the persecution of the church by the beast before the rapture.

I believe that the rapture occurs after the sixth seal is opened.

Rv 7:9
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
KJV

I believe that the fifth seal has already been opened.

 

[J7]

TMS, you are a fine man, but
this wretched lie keeps getting regurgitated.

The bible is totally explicit as to who gives the command.


Isaiah 44
28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.


As Allenbee perceptively says, people don't really want an answer...

The 70-week prophecy begins at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12,13).
From this (457bc) starting point, we can determine all the other time markers of the prophecy. Seven weeks were allotted for the restoration of Jerusalem. True to the prophecy, Jerusalem was rebuilt 49 years after 457 BC, which was 408 BC.
Seven weeks (49 day-years) for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and another threescore and two weeks (62 weeks or 434 day-years) brings us to "the Messiah the Prince." Beginning in 457 BC and applying the day-year principle, we can determine the passing of 483 years from 457 BC which brings us to 27 AD (allowing for the conversion from BC to AD being one extra year).

In 27 AD, Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit on the occasion of His baptism which marked the beginning of His ministry (Luke 3:21-23). This baptism marked the event in Daniel’s prophecy “unto the Messiah the Prince.” When Christ proclaimed, “The time is fulfilled” (Mark 1:15), He was referring to this part of the prophecy.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Since we have a great "not by works" op I was hoping to start a rapture one as well. I am not in any way, shape or form and expert on the subject. I would welcome all pre, post, mid tribbers as well as those who believe that it has already occurred and any other thoughts on the subject. I would however ask that we remain civil and not attack one another's posts. We are mostly all Christians so we should first keep our love for one another in mind. Uplifting each other is more important than being right. I would ask, if possible that the replies be kept to two paragraphs or less if at all possible. Thanks!

I haven't read every post on here, so if someone has said this already, I offer my apology.

Show me one passage that states explicitly the rapture is pre-trib. Its just not there. Those who accept this ideology accept inferences.

1 Thess. 4:13-18 doesn't say pre-trib. Revelation 4:1 taken to mean the church is raptured is gross exegesis, as it was John, not the ekklesia that was taken up.

However, Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus said He was coming in the cloud after the tribulation of those days. I would go with that, post-trib. Pre-trib was not taught until the 1830's, except for some guy in the 9th century taught it and it was shut down, iirc.

 

[heartofdavid]

I haven't read every post on here, so if someone has said this already, I offer my apology.

Show me one passage that states explicitly the rapture is pre-trib. Its just not there. Those who accept this ideology accept inferences.

1 Thess. 4:13-18 doesn't say pre-trib. Revelation 4:1 taken to mean the church is raptured is gross exegesis, as it was John, not the ekklesia that was taken up.

However, Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus said He was coming in the cloud after the tribulation of those days. I would go with that, post-trib. Pre-trib was not taught until the 1830's, except for some guy in the 9th century taught it and it was shut down, iirc.

Doesn't fly.
The 1830 deal is old debunked poorly researched nonsense.

Actually it is post trib rapture that is missing support.

There are no verses even remotely alluding to a post trib rapture.

The one you posted USED TO BE USED.
( until it was pointed out years ago that those gathered after the Gt,are gathered from heaven,not earth,by angels,not Jesus.)

No post trib rapture in the bible.

 

[PlainWord]

Doesn't fly.
The 1830 deal is old debunked poorly researched nonsense.

Actually it is post trib rapture that is missing support.

There are no verses even remotely alluding to a post trib rapture.

The one you posted USED TO BE USED.
( until it was pointed out years ago that those gathered after the Gt,are gathered from heaven,not earth,by angels,not Jesus.)

No post trib rapture in the bible.

Until you figure out that the "great tribulation" of Mat 24 was the torment and final destruction of Jerusalem circa 70 AD, you will never sort this out. The first resurrection, the so called rapture, the wedding, etc all happened in the first century.

You see "New Jerusalem" is the church which is made up of all saved Jews throughout time and all other Gentile believers. The church exists in heaven and on earth right now. The mystery of the church is that it was the reversal of the "Fall of Adam." The fall of Adam brought spiritual death (not physical). This spiritual death has been removed by the blood of Christ for all those which are part of the "Church."

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will
gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 8:2, "And I saw the seven messengers who stand before Yah, and to them were given seven trumpets."[/FONT]

 

[Muzungu256]

if u say that in eternity israelites live on earth and church in new jerusalem floating on the sky....... how does it make any sense when Jesus broke the barrier and all are one in Christ????? come on in eternity all are one its simple u see.........

nice to see plainword back up innit!!!! stay up mon yaaaaaaaa

 

[PlainWord]

if u say that in eternity israelites live on earth and church in new jerusalem floating on the sky....... how does it make any sense when Jesus broke the barrier and all are one in Christ????? come on in eternity all are one its simple u see.........

nice to see plainword back up innit!!!! stay up mon yaaaaaaaa

In eternity?? We are in eternity my friend. We will NEVER die. Think spiritually. I can't stress that enough. Those who can only think of earthly things are carnally minded.

Floating on the sky? LOL. Heaven isn't in "the sky." Heaven is a hidden dimension all around us and above us.

The church is comprised of all those who have been restored (from spiritual death to life). This means EVERYONE! There are no Jews or Gentiles in heaven. They are just "saints" and are like angels. Some in the Church, the "New Jerusalem," are mortals still on earth awaiting physical death. Others who have died physically have gone ahead of us but we ALL are in the Kingdom of God (or Heaven) right now!!

Thanks, back for now.

Stay blessed my friend.

 

[PlainWord]

Futurists like this are giving the church body a very bad and embarrassing name. This guy is a joke and he made it on Fox News! He will join the list of laughing stocks on Sep 24.

Biblical prophecy claims the world will end on Sept. 23, Christian numerologists claim | Fox News

 

[Locutus]

I couldn't agree more PL..

 

[SovereignGrace]

Doesn't fly.
The 1830 deal is old debunked poorly researched nonsense.

Actually it is post trib rapture that is missing support.

There are no verses even remotely alluding to a post trib rapture.

The one you posted USED TO BE USED.
( until it was pointed out years ago that those gathered after the Gt,are gathered from heaven,not earth,by angels,not Jesus.)

No post trib rapture in the bible.

Matthew 24:29-31...Jesus said after the tribulations of those days, He will come in the cloud with the saints. That's post-trib, imo.

Noah and the other 7 survived whilst God destroyed the earth. Israel was safe whilst God went after Egypt. God knows how to protect His elect whilst throttling the wicked.

Now, where in history is it shown that a pre-trib rapture was taught pre-1830's?