Should the rich support the poor?

[Depleted]

I am a lab tech and have worked in the medical field for almost 17 years now. I have become so desensitized its sad. The ppl I help to abuse our tax dollars is sickening. They come in with this federally funded debit card...err medical card...and the ER docs stumble over themselves like Chevy Chase when he imitated President Ford on SNL. They get admitted and get treated like royalty.

I work there and have a copay of $100 if I visit the ER. Back in June, I almost cut the tip off my left thumb off and after three xrays and 8 stitches, I am still having to pay over $500 after my insurance paid their part. Someone said medicare wasn't going to pay for certain MRI's and CT's.

There is ZERO incentive to work now. We get punished for working.

True story. This happened before my wife and I started dating. My father-in-law was once off work with heart issues. He had a temporary defibillator on his neck and my mother-in-law called to see if they could get food stamps. They asked her if they owned their home. She said yes, and they told her to sell it and live off that $ and after its gone, talk to them about getting food stamps. She said, "where are we going to live if we sell our house?!?!"

No incentive to work. Be a bum and you can live like royalty. Also, you can have a prescription card with a $1-$2 dollar copay on the meds you can then sell to neer-do-wells.

True story. Hubby and I are both on Medicare. Along with medicare we have another form of help for medical expenses -- mine is medigap insurance. His is the VA system.

The VA hospital didn't have the set up to give him stents. He was in the middle of his heart attack, so he really really needed stents NOW. So they sent him to the university hospital. (Pennsylvania.) AND they promised me everything that hospital did for him would be paid by the VA. All worked fine (financially anyway) for a month or two, then suddenly his bills were coming here. Who pays what is determined by who you consider your primary insurance and your secondary. For hubby, primary was the VA. Secondary was Medicare. Somewhere in the course of billing, (and not at the beginning thankfully, or I would have been freaking even more when it hit. And I had no more freak left in me at that time), they swapped them out. Sure enough, Medicare doesn't pay the bill. They pay a portion of the bill. Let's just say, I could buy three more homes near me for the amount of money that hospital wanted, but Medicare wasn't going to pay.

I did get it resolved, but I had to make a lot of calls and then some visits to get it settled.

Meanwhile, the SWs at the university hospital were telling me about this wonderful step-down unit hubby would be going to when he got out of ICU. It was better than a typical hospital ward, but not as all encompassing as a ICU. Guess what happened once I got that billing mess halfway resolved. No more step-down unit. He wasn't worth it, since they discovered our wallets are thin.

As for me? My goal is to never go into a hospital no matter what. Why? I want those $1-$2 copays for prescriptions. I have four prescriptions and my co-pay is $20 a month! Thank God for the medigap, or that turns into $90 a month. (Full price.) My copays for silly things like ultrasounds and biopsies on my goiter were $400... EACH! I peed in a cup for my pain doctor. $444! He sent it to the wrong lab. (One was acceptable to my medigap insurance, but not the other, so they sent it to the wrong lab.) Just had my goiter shrunken. $400! Don't know about you, but $400 is a little under half what SSDI gives me each month.

Got a shot for pain in my back a couple of years ago. The person checking me in, (the woman who had to make sure the procedure would be paid for -- and apparently the people you don't meet in your line of work, because billing tells a different story than the one you tell), told me the copay was $400. I got up and started walking out, because I can't afford it. She told me, "Don't worry about it. We will never turn you down simply because you can't afford it."

Honest answer. Sure enough, the $400 bill came to my house. Apparently she thought I couldn't afford it that day. NO! I can't afford it PERIOD!

Live like royalty? I can't even afford to get sick -- ever! Which kind of sucks, because I'm disabled already!

As for Welfare demanding you sell your house first? Funny, we were on Welfare living in this house. It's cheaper than getting a one-bedroom apartment nowadays. How long ago was that story?

It truly amazes me how much Christianity looks like what everyone dreams about for "middle-class America." The concept has nothing to do with the Bible or God. It's all based on political beliefs and what you'd prefer America to look like.

 

[Depleted]

My wife observed exactly that happening just 2 or 3 days ago, when she was in the store. Two different patrons of the store, one with (she told me the brand name, I forgot it) a very expensive purse..$300 range, a cart loaded down with junk food, grocery bill of over $200... paid with the Lone Star card, or whatever they call it. She noticed the lady loading all that up in a really nice suv... don't remember the brand or model.

The issue that we see all the time is women with 5 or 6 kids, saying she's single, getting all the benefits, kids getting free school meals, and free school supplies, while her common law husband, who she's been living with for 25 years works a full time job doing some type of construction, frequently being paid in cash, under the table.

That has become the norm in some of the ethnic communities.... but conservatives are evil because we don't want to keep getting bled dry to support these leeches. I suppose we're just heartless.

Thanks again for proving Christianity is more middle-class American Republicans than anything to do with the Bible.

I'm very sorry it troubles you so that we were those Welfare people and now living off the government teat. Must be very hard on you.

But kudos for knowing the difference between a genuine purse and a knockoff and being able to tell what's going on. (Most people who can't afford a car to shop borrow a family member's or friend's car.)

Do you know why the poor live on junk food? Because the good stuff is too expensive!

I'm out of here. We've just hit middle-class fish tales representing reality.

 

[SovereignGrace]

True story. Hubby and I are both on Medicare. Along with medicare we have another form of help for medical expenses -- mine is medigap insurance. His is the VA system.

The VA hospital didn't have the set up to give him stents. He was in the middle of his heart attack, so he really really needed stents NOW. So they sent him to the university hospital. (Pennsylvania.) AND they promised me everything that hospital did for him would be paid by the VA. All worked fine (financially anyway) for a month or two, then suddenly his bills were coming here. Who pays what is determined by who you consider your primary insurance and your secondary. For hubby, primary was the VA. Secondary was Medicare. Somewhere in the course of billing, (and not at the beginning thankfully, or I would have been freaking even more when it hit. And I had no more freak left in me at that time), they swapped them out. Sure enough, Medicare doesn't pay the bill. They pay a portion of the bill. Let's just say, I could buy three more homes near me for the amount of money that hospital wanted, but Medicare wasn't going to pay.

I did get it resolved, but I had to make a lot of calls and then some visits to get it settled.

Meanwhile, the SWs at the university hospital were telling me about this wonderful step-down unit hubby would be going to when he got out of ICU. It was better than a typical hospital ward, but not as all encompassing as a ICU. Guess what happened once I got that billing mess halfway resolved. No more step-down unit. He wasn't worth it, since they discovered our wallets are thin.

As for me? My goal is to never go into a hospital no matter what. Why? I want those $1-$2 copays for prescriptions. I have four prescriptions and my co-pay is $20 a month! Thank God for the medigap, or that turns into $90 a month. (Full price.) My copays for silly things like ultrasounds and biopsies on my goiter were $400... EACH! I peed in a cup for my pain doctor. $444! He sent it to the wrong lab. (One was acceptable to my medigap insurance, but not the other, so they sent it to the wrong lab.) Just had my goiter shrunken. $400! Don't know about you, but $400 is a little under half what SSDI gives me each month.

Got a shot for pain in my back a couple of years ago. The person checking me in, (the woman who had to make sure the procedure would be paid for -- and apparently the people you don't meet in your line of work, because billing tells a different story than the one you tell), told me the copay was $400. I got up and started walking out, because I can't afford it. She told me, "Don't worry about it. We will never turn you down simply because you can't afford it."

Honest answer. Sure enough, the $400 bill came to my house. Apparently she thought I couldn't afford it that day. NO! I can't afford it PERIOD!

Live like royalty? I can't even afford to get sick -- ever! Which kind of sucks, because I'm disabled already!

As for Welfare demanding you sell your house first? Funny, we were on Welfare living in this house. It's cheaper than getting a one-bedroom apartment nowadays. How long ago was that story?

It truly amazes me how much Christianity looks like what everyone dreams about for "middle-class America." The concept has nothing to do with the Bible or God. It's all based on political beliefs and what you'd prefer America to look like.

And your horror stories shows why ppl decide to leech off the gov't than to work. They see these and think that working ain't worth it. Tell your husband I thank him for his service to for our country.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thanks again for proving Christianity is more middle-class American Republicans than anything to do with the Bible.

I'm very sorry it troubles you so that we were those Welfare people and now living off the government teat. Must be very hard on you.

But kudos for knowing the difference between a genuine purse and a knockoff and being able to tell what's going on. (Most people who can't afford a car to shop borrow a family member's or friend's car.)

Do you know why the poor live on junk food? Because the good stuff is too expensive!

I'm out of here. We've just hit middle-class fish tales representing reality.

I pray you realize my angst is with those who will not work, not those who can not work.

Those who are disabled are the ones I gladly give my tax monies to. Those too sorry to work need to be put to work or be cut off.

 

[penknight]

Also, they get back $8,000-$10,000 in taxes for having all those kids, Brother HornetGuy.

This made me laugh. I know a few in my hometown who had it like that though.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

To tell you the truth, when I see them on a cell phone I know costs upwards of two or three hundred dollars, and look at the Starbuck's in their hand, 90% of the time I don't even consider it.... no matter how much they "poor mouth."

All I can say Is wOw,how did you get SO Intolerant?

 

[Oncefallen]

All I can say Is wOw,how did you get SO Intolerant?

Amazing how persons with a more liberal bent throw that word around.

There is NOTHING intolerant about someone who has worked hard for their income being annoyed (or even disgusted) at the fact that a lot of persons who are on publicly funded social programs seem to have the ability to afford things that many of us hard working persons cannot.

I work a minimum of 40 hrs (frequently closer to 50+) and drive a 15 year old truck, my wife drives a 20 year old car. There is absolutely nothing in my home or spending habits that screams extravagance because we cannot afford better than what we have and like Willie I am disgusted when I see persons on assistance programs who have big screen TV's, the latest high tech smart phones, etc.

 

[hornetguy]

Thanks again for proving Christianity is more middle-class American Republicans than anything to do with the Bible.

I'm very sorry it troubles you so that we were those Welfare people and now living off the government teat. Must be very hard on you.

But kudos for knowing the difference between a genuine purse and a knockoff and being able to tell what's going on. (Most people who can't afford a car to shop borrow a family member's or friend's car.)

Do you know why the poor live on junk food? Because the good stuff is too expensive!

I'm out of here. We've just hit middle-class fish tales representing reality.

You shouldn't be so sensitive, Lynn.... this was a true story, not some "fish tale" .... I have no need to exaggerate the incident, it was related as accurately as possible.

When you see it happen time and again, and hear others repeat the same experiences, it cannot be a fabrication. If you think that the welfare system isn't overwhelmed with fraud and deceit, you are living in dreamland. The federal government even admits to millions of dollars of fraud, if not billions, in Medicare/Medicaid. If THEY admit it, then it is likely much worse than we all realize.



I have nothing against people that are truly in need getting whatever help they need... they very likely don't get enough. Our vets are prime examples of that.

I suppose if I videotaped such an incident, you might believe it? It happens frequently, even in my relatively small circle of influence.

I firmly believe that we should help those that truly NEED It. It's the misuse of all those funds that frustrates most sensible people.

 

[Willie-T]

All I can say Is wOw,how did you get SO Intolerant?

Amazing how persons with a more liberal bent throw that word around.

There is NOTHING intolerant about someone who has worked hard for their income being annoyed (or even disgusted) at the fact that a lot of persons who are on publicly funded social programs seem to have the ability to afford things that many of us hard working persons cannot.

I work a minimum of 40 hrs (frequently closer to 50+) and drive a 15 year old truck, my wife drives a 20 year old car. There is absolutely nothing in my home or spending habits that screams extravagance because we cannot afford better than what we have and like Willie I am disgusted when I see persons on assistance programs who have big screen TV's, the latest high tech smart phones, etc.

Thank you, *Oncefallen*. I'm also getting a bit tired of the Left hiding behind the word, "tolerant", as though not accepting liars and cheats is somehow wrong.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Someone who I know well since my mid teens and who is around my age has become a person who lives completely off the government. She refuses to work. She can. Maybe not full time, but then again maybe so. At the least she can probably work 4 days a week.

So now she actually gets medical operations so she can stay on the programs. She scams the system to no end. Some of her issues are legit, most are not. She just does not want to work and has found a way to live off the government. I guess she finds it easier then having to live with guys to support her.

She was not like this years ago. She grew up in a hard working middle class blue collar family. She worked fairly consistently until her late 30's. Then it was a slow downhill slide to where she is now. She gradually learned all the loopholes and lied, cajoled, phonied, pleaded, and pushed her claims to reality, even if it meant she had to take a short term hit, being uncomfortable for a little while, to set herself up for the long haul.

This was a sweet young woman with not a great but at least a decent enough work ethic that has come to the point where even her grown kids, and other people that know her, don't even respect her in this regard anymore and they often question her motivations when she brings up most financial subjects.

A darn shame. It personally disgusts me and deeply saddens me.

So if anyone thinks this is essentially a harmless lifestyle or attitude, you are very wrong. I have witnessed it first hand. It sucks the life out of the individual perpetuating this crime, and it is a crime, and not just a legal one, and it puts a pall over everyone in her circle who cares for her.

 

[Oncefallen]

Thanks again for proving Christianity is more middle-class American Republicans than anything to do with the Bible.

I'm very sorry it troubles you so that we were those Welfare people and now living off the government teat. Must be very hard on you.

But kudos for knowing the difference between a genuine purse and a knockoff and being able to tell what's going on. (Most people who can't afford a car to shop borrow a family member's or friend's car.)

Do you know why the poor live on junk food? Because the good stuff is too expensive!

I'm out of here. We've just hit middle-class fish tales representing reality.

The bad thing Lynn is that the scenario that Hornetguy laid out is more common than you might think.

All too often, a woman with children on welfare, medicaid, food stamps and Section 8 housing (here in Colorado Springs, a lot of Section 8 is actually in apartment complexes that I couldn't afford) has a long term live in boyfriend who is making very good money. Since they are not married his income legally does not affect her benefits and of course she maintains Section 8 by "forgetting" to mention that he lives there.

 

[Willie-T]

Amazing how persons with a more liberal bent throw that word around.

There is NOTHING intolerant about someone who has worked hard for their income being annoyed (or even disgusted) at the fact that a lot of persons who are on publicly funded social programs seem to have the ability to afford things that many of us hard working persons cannot.

I work a minimum of 40 hrs (frequently closer to 50+) and drive a 15 year old truck, my wife drives a 20 year old car. There is absolutely nothing in my home or spending habits that screams extravagance because we cannot afford better than what we have and like Willie I am disgusted when I see persons on assistance programs who have big screen TV's, the latest high tech smart phones, etc.[/
Don't get me wrong,I don't agree with unqualified people receiving government support,just curious as to who would you say Is qualified to receive government support,maybe a single lady with children to raise,would a welfare card pulled out at the register bring an automatic frown If the person doesn't look the part?

Who is "qualified to receive government support?" Not one single person in this world. God did not set up government programs. Man invented that. At first it was for a good intent, (I hope)..... but now it is mainly to develop and maintain a fat and lazy voter base.

 

[GaryA]

... and the money was theirs to begin with.

This is one of the most interesting things anyone has said in this thread so far.

When you consider an individual's income -- isn't it - or, shouldn't it be - "[ all ] theirs to begin with"...?

Now what? Doesn't that change the whole landscape a bit?





I will say this much -- if you are going to have a "preemptive" income tax - having a flat tax is the only "fair" solution.

 

[GaryA]

The Government ideally should be a adjunct.

Nooooo...

With specific regard to this particular issue, the Government should be completely disconnected from it - having no part in it whatsoever. Support of the poor is - or should be - the responsibility of family, churches, community, etc. - without "government programs" of any sort whatsoever.

The Federal Government should do nothing that is not specifically laid out in the Constitution of the United States of America. The rest belongs to the several independent States and their respective Constitutions.

Issues like this one should be "handled" as locally as absolutely possible.

If it were, we wouldn't have nearly the problems we have...

 

[GaryA]

I get some hints when I am in line behind someone at the grocery store, and they pay with a Welfare Card.... then they wheel their two carts with beer and steaks out to their new Cadillac......... while I pay for my hamburger and beans with money I worked for..... and then go load it into our 1999 Mercury.

I wish you didn't feel that way Willie-T,I mean,painting us all with a broad brush...sigh..

You seem to have "injected" something into the conversation that Willie did not say. Wille said 'someone' [ at the grocery store ] - who seems to be able to buy things that he ( Willie ) cannot afford to buy - paying for two carts full of things that most people would not think someone who is "poverty-stricken" would be able to afford - with government assistance money -- leaving in a luxury car that most people would not think someone who is "poverty-stricken" would be able to afford.

And, you seem to think that you - among [ many ? ] others - fall under this description...???

Does Willie's description describe you?

Who exactly is 'us'?

 

[p_rehbein]

Concerning those on Public Assistance, and what they have/can buy and what I have and can buy.........I KNOW PERSONALLY that there are a BUNCH of 'em who have NEWER, more EXPENSIVE cars than I do.......and a WHOLE LOTTA stuff, including Brand Name clothing, shoes and such.........as well as electronics that I could never afford....... I see it EVERY DAY!

Now, the fact is the Government gives folks a Cell Phone (but it is limited) AND NOW they are starting a Program to give folks free Internet!

When EVERYTHING IS FREE, whatever cash a person can generate CAN BUY a whole lot more than I can because I HAVE BILLS that I HAVE TO PAY............

Pretty simple stuff.......if ANYONE doubts this.......just hang out at Walmart one day just after the 1st of the Month, or at any Grocery Store just after Food Stamps come out......WATCH what they BUY! And then TRY to afford it yourself.

The Public Assistance Programs of the Government are RIPE for waste/FRAUD and ABUSE........

Now, there ARE some people who actually NEED assistance, but in my opinion, the vast majority of folks on Assistance are abusing the System.........plain and simple.

BTW........before anyone plays the RACIST card..........there are a WHOLE BUNCH of white folks doing this! A WHOLE BUNCH!

 

[Alertandawake]

I am going to my views on this, in the best possible way.

The problem we see today is that for some countries, is that we see more and more parents unable to provide adequate for their families, because a lot of the jobs are disappearing, either due to the industry becoming more automated making people obsolete, or factories being moved overseas to pay the workers in the cheap labor countries a pittance in the context wages, but at same time sell the product back in the home country for a price that is either the same for what could of been produced locally, or perhaps even higher.

I think there are many people out there who want to work, but are unable, one reason being jobs beingoffshored to countries where workers are treated as slaves, and not as people.

 

[Jennie-Mae]

My wife observed exactly that happening just 2 or 3 days ago, when she was in the store. Two different patrons of the store, one with (she told me the brand name, I forgot it) a very expensive purse..$300 range, a cart loaded down with junk food, grocery bill of over $200... paid with the Lone Star card, or whatever they call it. She noticed the lady loading all that up in a really nice suv... don't remember the brand or model.

The issue that we see all the time is women with 5 or 6 kids, saying she's single, getting all the benefits, kids getting free school meals, and free school supplies, while her common law husband, who she's been living with for 25 years works a full time job doing some type of construction, frequently being paid in cash, under the table.

That has become the norm in some of the ethnic communities.... but conservatives are evil because we don't want to keep getting bled dry to support these leeches. I suppose we're just heartless.

I know that a lot of people just don't want to work, and just be sitting on the receiving end of the money stream, but why aren't they ashamed of not contributing? What's so fun about sitting on their butts doing nothing?

No, we are not heartless. What is heartless is taking advantage of other people's work. An able body should be working. If he or she are just too lazy, they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Jennie-Mae]

Nooooo...

With specific regard to this particular issue, the Government should be completely disconnected from it - having no part in it whatsoever. Support of the poor is - or should be - the responsibility of family, churches, community, etc. - without "government programs" of any sort whatsoever.

The Federal Government should do nothing that is not specifically laid out in the Constitution of the United States of America. The rest belongs to the several independent States and their respective Constitutions.

Issues like this one should be "handled" as locally as absolutely possible.

If it were, we wouldn't have nearly the problems we have...

Yes, whenever the government is responsible for supporting the poor, the number of "poor" people will be steadily increasing. If the church and community are the ones in charge of it, the number of poor might be going down, because it is not that easy to be living on welfare if you have to face your minister or neighbor every time you're applying for welfare benefits.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I know that a lot of people just don't want to work, and just be sitting on the receiving end of the money stream, but why aren't they ashamed of not contributing? What's so fun about sitting on their butts doing nothing?

No, we are not heartless. What is heartless is taking advantage of other people's work. An able body should be working. If he or she are just too lazy, they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

why would they be ashamed when victim status is being pushed so hard these days....

many people pretend to be much worse off than they are and wear it like a badge


not just financially