Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2015
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Here's a specification for you.. YOU manage to find a way to spin insults into nearly every post you make. Maybe you do intentionally, maybe not. Others do it also, but for you it is a constant thing.

People tend to believe that Jesus was always meek and polite. He wasn't. He threatened to whip the money changers, He called people pharisees and wolves, vipers and devils. He told Peter and Judas both, that they would betray Him, even though they swore they wouldn't.. You better believe that He got ticked off at people, He just dealt with it differently than we do in today's time. Jesus may have been THE lamb, but He was NOT a meek quiet lamb all the time..
Blue - lol. Where is your example of my insulting, subtly or otherwise?

It is one thing to correct someone about behaviour in general, another to attack them
personally and then not tell them what you are actually referring to. Please can you help
me my friend, I wish you no insult or harm, but what are you saying?
intention?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Are you God? Are you all-knowing or psychic? How do you know those people have never called Jesus, Lord? The truth is, you don't. Even the mightiest Christian stumbles and falls from time to time. Jesus was the mightiest Christian of all, but even He was tempted to sin. Remember the devil telling Him to commit suicide? We are STILL sinful people, our Christianity aside. We ARE STILL tempted to sin, and oftentimes do.. Unless we are immortals in a immortal world, we will continue to sin until Jesus comes and perfects us. That's why Jesus walks on the path with us, to pick us up when we stumble. If we were sinless, we wouldn't need Jesus..

I just have a little discernment

just a little mind you

and a good amount of counselling Christians under the belt

but you carry on

we are not sinful people in Christ

we are now saints who do sometimes sin

a chronic sin problem indicates an area of life that either the person has not surrendered or needs help with...that is what biblical counselling is for

I think you should kick the hostility down a notch...before you tell Jens he needs to do it

over and out
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Faith alone,not saved by works,when we first confess Christ,for that is all we can do,for our works is as filthy rags,and faith is all we can have to initially be saved.

But when we receive the Holy Spirit,then we are spiritual,and the responsibility falls on us to maintain our salvation,for God will not twist our arm to live for Him,and we still have a choice between good and evil,so we have to make the choice to keep doing what is right.

If we fail to keep making the right choice in living for God,what He requires,then we are not right with God.

That is the point,we still have a choice after we are saved between good and evil,for if not nobody would ever sin again after they receive the Spirit,and if we still have a choice then some people can lack being right with God,if they do not do what is right.

That is why works matter,for we have a choice and can deny those works if we want,and then faith would not apply.

They do not understand there is responsibility after they receive the Spirit.

Charity is greater than faith.No charity,no faith.

Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin,by the Spirit,and always helps the poor and needy.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Some people want to believe as if they will never lack being right with God,and always right with Him,but it is obvious that some people can lack being right with God,because we have a choice after we are saved between good and evil,so we can make the wrong choice,and if we do we are not right with God at that time,until we repent of it,and mean it,God knows the heart.

It is obvious that some people can allow the Spirit to not lead them,and make the choice to do wrong,and to obey is better than sacrifice,and then they would lack being right with God.

It is that choice thing,for we are not forced to live for God,have to obey God,have to allow the Spirit to lead us,have to make the choice to do right.

And it is obvious some people can lack as the Bible says it can happen if people do not make the right choices,and that is why there is the warnings.

No need to warn if it cannot happen,and it is not do right,but if not,then you are still alright,for these warnings say such things as this,you are nothing,you err from the faith,your faith is dead,the love of God does not dwell in you,you have fallen and need to repent,you do not have the knowledge of God,you have a from of godliness but deny the power thereof,you are cut off,if the wrong is not corrected.

That does not sound like the saints are always in a position of being right,and can never falter from that situation.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work out your own salvation with the ole' fear and trem-bling(let that be the bling you wear on your neck,trem-Bling),for we have a choice between good and evil after we are saved,and every time we do wrong,we deny the Spirit leading us,and we are not right with God,until we get rid of it.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,so if they think sin,and do sin,and neglect the poor,then that is what is in their heart,then how are they clean at all times.

They want to take away responsibility,which according to the warnings in the Bible,it is obvious there is responsibility.
 
P

PHart

Guest
Dude... :rolleyes:

I did it because I wanted a cup of coffee.. lol

EG, Dcon, somebody, fill phart in on my humor. :eek:
For one, don't call me dude.

And I know you were being humorous, but you were making a point through that humor, and so I also am making a point off of your humor.

We can mock the importance of our doings all we want, but at the Resurrection Christ will be using what we do to confirm the presence of the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. A lot of Christians have taken a false comfort in believing that what they do does not reflect on whether or not they are saved. At the very least they can not have the assurance of their salvation (for works are where assurance of salvation comes from). At the very worst, their disobedience shows they do not possess the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works that they think they do.

So, drink that cup of coffee, church, and sober up to this hard truth. Prove that you have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works by walking in the footsteps of faith, just as Abraham walked in the footsteps of his faith. That way you can know if you're prepared for the Day of Judgment or not.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
well hey ~

as long as we are going to talk about the family forum (which I did not bring up)

a good amount of the so called help being given out is in the same category as the complainant

there was one lady on here who used to say...why are you asking advice from people who are not trained to give it?

seek out a good Christian counselor. often, that has been the best advice given. sadly, she no longer posts

no. not going to dodge. don't care about the mud flinging and anger sparks

got my Jesus umbrella up thank you very much ;)


 
Feb 24, 2015
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Christians still sin after being saved. It's called being imperfectly human. One trip to the Family forum proves that.. We won't get made perfect, until we get to heaven.
Here is a simple statement to make, which is often difficult to actually oppose.
If you say, oh but Jesus brings us this hope, the reply is, have you made it then?

Some have which is why some are referred to as being Holy.

But if you believe we are so lost in sin, until everything is clear there is no clarity,
then this statement of unbelief is so easy to say.

But Jesus came to earth to walk among men to show walking acceptably before the Father
is not impossible and not out of reach, just a narrow path.

And those who cling so strongly to their failures and attack anyone who dares suggest
there is hope, not surprising these voices raise the loudest.

Paul would say, we are not to judge, but the Lord does His work and we obey.
To arrive is to be quiet about arriving, so no one else will ever know.

Do you understand how profound this is? The greatest prize of all cannot be shared
because in sharing you make others feel bad, which you do not want.

But the effect of unbelief is people just give up, then there is no focus or progress.
 
P

PHart

Guest
Remember the devil telling Him to commit suicide?
Which is similar to how Christians believe the devil's lie that if they willfully sin God will be there to catch them because what they do doesn't matter in any way toward his grace to them in salvation. But just as Jesus did not dare to tempt God by being foolishly presumptuous, neither should we Christians tempt God by casting ourselves headlong into willful, unbelieving sin thinking God is going to catch us and lift us up.
 
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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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That's a contradiction. HOW can we be saints who still sin, if we're NOT sinful in Christ? And I'm not trying to be hostile to Peter.. but if I have to go get some examples of his insults, I will. :)


I just have a little discernment

just a little mind you

and a good amount of counselling Christians under the belt

but you carry on

we are not sinful people in Christ

we are now saints who do sometimes sin

a chronic sin problem indicates an area of life that either the person has not surrendered or needs help with...that is what biblical counselling is for

I think you should kick the hostility down a notch...before you tell Jens he needs to do it

over and out
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Which is similar to how Christians believe the devil's lie that if they willfully sin God will be there to catch them because what they do doesn't matter in any way toward his grace to them in salvation. But just as Jesus did not dare to tempt God by being foolishly presumptuous, neither should we Christians tempt God by casting ourselves headlong into willful, unbelieving sin and thinking God is going to catch us and lift us up.
a question- getting drunk is s sin. so, if someone says that they are a believer, but still struggles with drunkenness, is that person a willful unsaved sinner, or are they a true believer struggling with a addictive sin ( or the flesh, however you want to phrase it ).

how would you know the difference?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Unexpected

I have unexpectedly found believers arguing Jesus does not heal them spiritually, bring
victory and transformation into their lives, and to attack anyone who holds out the hope
of Jesus bringing something better into their lives than they have as lost sinners.

Now as a believer who has been changed their whole life and transformed, though I still
have many things still to grow into, I would suggest these people do not truly know Christ
and are speaking against His gospel.

There are many God haters in the real sense. A film was produced claiming the gospel was
not unique, but one of many faiths that said the same things. But this is a lie from beginning
to end, and written by people who hate what Jesus represents.

The animosity of some suggests even in christian organisations and discussion forums a similar
spirit lingers, and recruits the unwise and easily led astray. It is not difficult to lead astray those
burdened and overly guilty into false ideas that sin is irrelevant, and Jesus just loves all of you
just as you are, so rest and know you are on a sure fire winner. Often the only difference between
these folk and the world in the brick building they often visit.

Jesus is our life, our hope and our resurrection from the dead, both in the future and now in love.

The cross goes far beyond what we imagine or often are capable of, to limit its effect on our lives
is real unbelief.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Some people want to believe as if they will never lack being right with God,and always right with Him,but it is obvious that some people can lack being right with God,because we have a choice after we are saved between good and evil,so we can make the wrong choice,and if we do we are not right with God at that time,until we repent of it,and mean it,God knows the heart.

It is obvious that some people can allow the Spirit to not lead them,and make the choice to do wrong,and to obey is better than sacrifice,and then they would lack being right with God.

It is that choice thing, for we are not forced to live for God, have to obey God, have to allow the Spirit to lead us, have to make the choice to do right.

And it is obvious some people can lack as the Bible says it can happen if people do not make the right choices,and that is why there is the warnings.

No need to warn if it cannot happen,and it is not do right,but if not,then you are still alright,for these warnings say such things as this,you are nothing,you err from the faith,your faith is dead,the love of God does not dwell in you,you have fallen and need to repent,you do not have the knowledge of God,you have a from of godliness but deny the power thereof,you are cut off,if the wrong is not corrected.

That does not sound like the saints are always in a position of being right,and can never falter from that situation.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work out your own salvation with the ole' fear and trem-bling(let that be the bling you wear on your neck,trem-Bling),for we have a choice between good and evil after we are saved,and every time we do wrong,we deny the Spirit leading us,and we are not right with God,until we get rid of it.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,so if they think sin, and do sin,and neglect the poor,then that is what is in their heart, then how are they clean at all times.

They want to take away responsibility, which according to the warnings in the Bible, it is obvious there is responsibility
MattforJesus, you should read, "The Pilgrim's Progress", if you have not already done so. The Christian life is not the easiest life to live but it is the best life to live, which is a theme of Pilgrim's Progress. Also the Christian life is not one where believer's say okay I'm born again so let's just march on into heaven; no, there are many test's and trial's that we go through but God is aways with us trough our testing and trials, He will be with you alway's.

So again I ask you, who are all these people in your post that you refer to as; "some people, and they and their." And you assume "they" are all doomed with no hope. Where's the love.
 
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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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So you never sin? You never have an evil or impure thought? You never swear? You never get angry at the guy who cuts you off in traffic? Or any number of other sins? Come on...


You're not immortal. You do still sin, whether you realize it or not. We all do..


Unexpected

I have unexpectedly found believers arguing Jesus does not heal them spiritually, bring
victory and transformation into their lives, and to attack anyone who holds out the hope
of Jesus bringing something better into their lives than they have as lost sinners.

Now as a believer who has been changed their whole life and transformed, though I still
have many things still to grow into, I would suggest these people do not truly know Christ
and are speaking against His gospel.

There are many God haters in the real sense. A film was produced claiming the gospel was
not unique, but one of many faiths that said the same things. But this is a lie from beginning
to end, and written by people who hate what Jesus represents.

The animosity of some suggests even in christian organisations and discussion forums a similar
spirit lingers, and recruits the unwise and easily led astray. It is not difficult to lead astray those
burdened and overly guilty into false ideas that sin is irrelevant, and Jesus just loves all of you
just as you are, so rest and know you are on a sure fire winner. Often the only difference between
these folk and the world in the brick building they often visit.

Jesus is our life, our hope and our resurrection from the dead, both in the future and now in love.

The cross goes far beyond what we imagine or often are capable of, to limit its effect on our lives
is real unbelief.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
So you never sin? You never have an evil or impure thought? You never swear? You never get angry at the guy who cuts you off in traffic? Or any number of other sins? Come on...


You're not immortal. You do still sin, whether you realize it or not. We all do..
My friend, you are making absolute statements when you can only speak for yourself.
I am following Christ and He says I can walk acceptably before Him.

That is good enough for me, and I know the power of His transforming Spirit.
You speak in unbelief, nothing more. Does this unbelief reassure you that you fail like
everyone else so it is ok? You want so much to put others down, but you should be looking
at the author and perfecter of our faith, and look at His wonderful example and hear His worlds
of life and love, "I am the way", so follow and you will discover what is possible not unbelief.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Sin is blatant hurting of others. Stand strong and know God will bring you into victory.

Once the reasons you hurt others are removed, why would you do such a thing?
It is the pain and hurt within that drives so much of our sin, until it is purified and cleaned
we do not have the sight to see what is still an issue.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Amen.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Answer my questions, please. :) Do you still sin or not? It's a simple, yes or no question. And why do you always assume that people are unbelievers, just because they say they we DO still sin from time to time? You cannot possibly sit here and honestly say that you are never tempted to sin.


My friend, you are making absolute statements when you can only speak for yourself.
I am following Christ and He says I can walk acceptably before Him.

That is good enough for me, and I know the power of His transforming Spirit.
You speak in unbelief, nothing more. Does this unbelief reassure you that you fail like
everyone else so it is ok? You want so much to put others down, but you should be looking
at the author and perfecter of our faith, and look at His wonderful example and hear His worlds
of life and love, "I am the way", so follow and you will discover what is possible not unbelief.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
For NONE are righteous.. Jesus says so.. He also says "for ALL have sinned, and ALL fall short of the glory of God."
 
Feb 24, 2015
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For NONE are righteous.. Jesus says so.. He also says "for ALL have sinned, and ALL fall short of the glory of God."
The truth of this statement is everyone commits one sin in their life.
We are born into unbelief, which is sin itself.

But this does not mean we cannot walk like Jesus.

And blue, I have sinned in the past, but I may not sin in the future, only God truly knows.
The future is not here yet and none of us can say what it truly holds, other than God
promises some will be saved and be with Him, if they believe what He is offering.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
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I'm not saying we can't walk like Jesus. What I'm saying is, we ARE still imperfect humans, who despite being saved, STILL sins from time to time.. We are still sinners until the moment that we are made immortal and perfect. And everyone commits or has/will commit more than just ONE sin..


The truth of this statement is everyone commits one sin in their life.
We are born into unbelief, which is sin itself.

But this does not mean we cannot walk like Jesus.

And blue, I have sinned in the past, but I may not sin in the future, only God truly knows.
The future is not here yet and none of us can say what it truly holds, other than God
promises some will be saved and be with Him, if they believe what He is offering.
 
Mar 11, 2016
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Singapore
abigail.pro
Hi AbigailZeke, nice to meet you, you've been here for awhile and seen many posts, what do you think is the cause of, merited righteousness. Jesus told His disciple's the greatest in God's kingdom will be like a servant, waiting on table's, and humble yourself before the Lord and He will lift you up. I agree with sovereignGrace post, "God fights our battle's we just need to get behind the shield of faith", (God's gift to believer's).

"Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you." James4:10
Hello TruthTalk! Nice to meet you too. For one, pride. Two, and more importantly, veil that's not lifted. Unbelief.

"But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed." 2 Corinthians 3:14

And yeah I have been here for quite awhile (old account) actually. Around 10 years in total (on and off though).

I understand why this (imputed righteousness) is so hard to believe for some because I used to think it was heretic too. Lol. But thank Jesus for new days. :)