What role does obedience play in salvation?

[p_rehbein]

Has ANYONE asked "what role salvation plays in obedience?"

(just wondering)

 

[mailmandan]

So what I basically got was that it does take some obedience, in your opinion, to get saved, but that obedience after being saved is optional, and that no matter how disobedient you are you cannot lose your salvation once you've had it? Well I strongly disagree, but respectfully so.

It takes faith to get saved (Ephesians 2:8) and from beginning "have been saved through faith" to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works. Obedience after one is saved is not forced or legalistic for believers. Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin and love their brother (1 John 3:9-10). What I'm hearing from you is that salvation is "obtained by works" and "maintained based on the merits of our performance," which I strongly disagree with.

 

[notuptome]

I cannot chunk things up like you can, so I can't reply to most of what you said. Just saying that so far, I had to keep scrolling back to find where I am typing, it's very difficult for me to go long on this format. Besides this, I would have to tackle one point at a time with you, cause it gets way too long. I do appreciate the time you put in to answer me.

So what I basically got was that it does take some obedience, in your opinion, to get saved, but that obedience after being saved is optional, and that no matter how disobedient you are you cannot lose your salvation once you've had it? Well I strongly disagree, but respectfully so.

If you want to continue this, I'm going to have to do it in pm where I can cover one point at a time, cause it gets too long this way. So if you want to continue this conversation, just pm me.

You need to separate the sections of the post you are responding to with bracket quote bracket and close the section with bracket backslash quote bracket. Notice the format in the original section of the post.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikyah,

I believe it all plays a part somehow; grace, faith and God's divine power works within our heart. It (obedience) doesn't save us, but it's the goal of our salvation.

Romans 1:1-6
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

2 Peter 1:2-3 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

We see here that it's God's divine power that has granted to us everything that pertains to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

I'm in study right now in 2 Peter and we discussed what the true knowledge of God is. The word in the greek means a knowledge based on experience by obedience. In obedience the knowledge we have becomes true knowledge.

So I think it's all intertwined and hard to separate all the different aspects to the Gospel. It's by grace through faith with the goal in mind to live in obedience to the Grace Giver Who makes it all happen. It's not based on works of the Law, but on the grace of God by faith, having as it's goal the obedience of the faith.

It's an outward sign of an inward working of God within our hearts. And the greatest outward sign of faith is love for God and love for our neighbor. And we all know that love is an action word. So love itself is obedience.

Thank you for the post! I fully agree on the "It's an outward sign of an inward working of God within our hearts. And the greatest outward sign of faith is love for God and love for our neighbor. And we all know that love is an action word. So love itself is obedience."

It's an outward sign of an inward working of God within our hearts.

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

And the greatest outward sign of faith is love for God and love for our neighbor. And we all know that love is an action word.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

1 John 2:5, But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

2 John 1:6, "And this is the love, that we walk according to His commands.a This is the command, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it."

So love itself is obedience.

2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”

I believe it all plays a part somehow; grace, faith and God's divine power works within our heart. It (obedience) doesn't save us, but it's the goal of our salvation.

 

[Hizikyah]

Well to be saved one must ask to be saved by God and accept Jesus as saviour,after that obedience is more active in one's life not as if to say that one doesn't have their own will but the individual shall desire to do right for God and obey many of things God has written as best as one can,so yes obedience is apart of salvation "After" being saved as far as our grace plan now,but it doesn't save us.

1 John 2:5, But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”

Hebrew 13:20-21, “And the Mighty One of peace who raised up our Master יהושע from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every righteous work to do His desire, working in you what is pleasing in His sight, through יהושע Messiah, to whom be esteem forever and ever. Awmĕin.”

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

 

[Hizikyah]

Amen good works and obedience do not earn salvation. They are however evidence that Jesus has saved. by their fruit you shall know them.

Psalm 119:133, Establish my footsteps by Your word, And let no wickedness have rule over me.

Salvation is seen when those who lived in the broad way of destruction now stay to the narrow way. When sinners weak as they are no longer walk in sin.

When those who were slaves of the Devil are free from the Devil.

When the disobedient are seen to obey fully. Then you know they have trusted in Jesus. That their salvation is not of men but of God.

John 8:12, “Therefore יהושע spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but possess the light of life.”

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

It seems that some think that forgiveness is all salvation is.

Actually forgiveness by itself is only part of what makes up salvation.

transformation is the part that comes not as an addition but as an essential part of salvation.

Thus to continue to live in sin thinking you are saved because Jesus died is error.

transformation just like forgiveness is gained by faith in the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:3-4, "And do you think, O man, you who judge those practising such wrongs, and doing the same, that you shall escape the judgment of Yah? Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and tolerance, and patience,a not knowing that the kindness of Yah leads you to repentance?"

Psalm 25:5, “Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are Yah my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long.”

 

[Hizikyah]

This is a post salvation experience. Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.

I would say it's a post knowing Yah experience/walk, and that ones actions show who they belong to

1 John 3:10, In this the children of Yah and the children of the devil are manifest: Everyone not doing righteousness is not of Yah, neither the one not loving his brother.”


3 John 1:11, “Beloved ones, do not imitate the evil, but the good. The one who is doing good is of Yah, but he who is doing evil has not seen Yah.”

 

[Hizikyah]

In that case we will 'tear out Heb 5v9 :And being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

People seem to forget that 'all things work together for the perfecting of the man of God.

Hebrews 5:9, "And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him."

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

 

[Nehemiah6]

Has ANYONE asked "what role salvation plays in obedience?"

Looks like a lot of people are simply talking past each other instead of discerning what the Bible actually says about obedience before and after salvation. So before responding to your question, Christians need to understand that before salvation God expects the obedience of faith from the sinner. Which is obedience to Gospel. Obedience to the COMMANDMENT to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and obedience to the COMMANDMENT to repent and be converted.

As to the role which salvation plays in obedience, since salvation makes sinners into children of God, Peter says that as OBEDIENT CHILDREN we are become holy as God is holy. And since God has given us His Holy Spirit in order to become holy, no Christian has any excuse whatsoever.

All this talk about those who sin after salvation is simply distraction and shifts the focus from genuine Christians to those who only profess to be Christians. Yet we become preoccupied with this distraction, and Satan's primary goal is to keep Christians distracted. Also, there is no need for too many words. When we take the example of Christ, He was always brief, always succinct, and always on point.

 

[BenFTW]

A very important role does obedience play in salvation! Hallelujah that the Lord Jesus was obedient to the Father.

[h=1]Romans 5:18-19 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

If He speaks "duck" then duck...otherwise we might get our head knocked off.

Just that simple.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:160, “The sum of Your word is truth, And all Your righteous right-rulings are forever.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Micah 3:4, "Therefore, when they cry to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He does not answer them, and hides His face from them at that time, as they have made their deeds evil."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:41-42, “And let Your loving-commitments come to me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; Your deliverance, according to Your word, So that I answer my reprover, For I have trusted in Your word.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[FlSnookman7]

As most here know I am all about grace as far as salvation goes. That said I find that in my life here and now the more obedient I can be the more blessings I receive. When I say blessings I am not speaking only about material things though they do seem to increase in direct relation to my obedience. What I am really talking about is the frequency that I am able to hear God increases the more I obey when I do hear from Him. I am laughing as I type this because when I first read the question I thought "thats easy"...LOl. Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that while I know my salvation is secure because of what Jesus did and for no other reason, obedience on my part brings more blessings in this life.

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke 1:77, “to give knowledge of deliverance to His people, by the forgiveness of their sins,”


Job 28:28, “And He said to man, ‘See, the fear of יהוה, that is wisdom, and to turn from evil is understanding.”


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 107:43, “Who is wise? Then let him observe these matters! Let them understand the loving-commitments of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

It takes faith to get saved (Ephesians 2:8) and from beginning "have been saved through faith" to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works. Obedience after one is saved is not forced or legalistic for believers. Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin and love their brother (1 John 3:9-10). What I'm hearing from you is that salvation is "obtained by works" and "maintained based on the merits of our performance," which I strongly disagree with.

and take obidience to have faith

Jesus want us to believe or have faith in Him, because obey mean follow the guidance so to have faith need obey

1. :to follow the commands or guidance of

• He always obeys his parents.

2:to conform to or comply with

• obey an order

• Falling objects obey the laws of physics.

 

[Speak2Me]

Faith is "given" to us through the preaching of the Gospel and the convincing of the Holy Spirit. Paul says faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (primarily the Gospel) (Rom 10:17). Paul goes on to say that I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16).

So once the Gospel has been heard and the sinner has been convinced and convicted, that sinner must OBEY the commandment to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. Thus we read in Mark 16:15,16: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So believing the Gospel is not an option, but a command. And commands must be obeyed. This is seen in Acts 2:37,38.

THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS AND CONVINCES
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

THE APOSTLE COMMANDS REPENTANCE
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I agree. If obedience didn't have a place, then what do we do with this?
2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and ...

[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]He will punish those who do not know God and do
not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. ...
[SIZE=-1] //biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/1-8.htm [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 19k [/SIZE][/TD]

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God's ...

[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with
us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? ...
[SIZE=-1] //biblehub.com/1_peter/4-17.htm [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 19k [/SIZE][/TD]

Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. ...

[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"] ... But all did not obey the gospel . For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed
our message? ... But all do not obey the gospel . For Isaias ...
[SIZE=-1] //biblehub.com/romans/10-16.htm [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 18k

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Like someone already said, we obeyed when we repented of our sins. We can take no glory in that obedience because the Holy Spirit convicted us of our sins and confirmed the salvation message in our hearts to repent of our sins and the Father gave us the faith to do it.[/SIZE][/TD]

 

[Speak2Me]

Jesus said "repent, and believe the gospel."
What's it called when I don't do that? Disobedience.
What's it called then when I repent and believe the gospel? Obedience.
Sure, this is a heart work. It must start in the heart.
I repent in my heart first, and I believe the gospel in my heart first.
But it's still obedience.
It's just that simple.
We can't be saved if we don't repent and believe the gospel.

 

[AndTheWordWasGOD]

Romans 3:23 - Justification is not what we do, and not what I am, and not what I worked for. It is what Jesus did and my faith in it that gives me the standing with God that I need to carry on my Christian experience. Sometime I do it well, and sometimes I do it not so well, but His justifying Grace will not fail unless my faith fails. It is just if I have never sinned and just if I have always obeyed (Romans 8:1; Romans 8:2).

Washed in the blood of the LAMB!

Gen 22:7-8 KJV
(7) And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
(8) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Psa 32:1-2 KJV
(1) Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
(2) Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputes not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:6-8 KJV
(6) Even as David also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works,
(7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
(8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[AndTheWordWasGOD]

As most here know I am all about grace as far as salvation goes. That said I find that in my life here and now the more obedient I can be the more blessings I receive. When I say blessings I am not speaking only about material things though they do seem to increase in direct relation to my obedience. What I am really talking about is the frequency that I am able to hear God increases the more I obey when I do hear from Him. I am laughing as I type this because when I first read the question I thought "thats easy"...LOl. Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that while I know my salvation is secure because of what Jesus did and for no other reason, obedience on my part brings more blessings in this life.

Friend, God bless your works of obedience in faith and honor to Jesus name (Heb 6:10).

Obedience by faith in the Gospel of God removes the confusion and blindness that the Devil has brought upon mankind through sin.

Pro 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

John 8:42-45 KJV
(42) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
(43) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
(44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
(45) And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

2Co 3:14-16 KJV
(14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
(15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
(16) Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

2Co 4:3-5 KJV
(3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
(4) In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(5) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2Ti 2:24-26 KJV
(24) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
(25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
(26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Rev 12:9-10 KJV
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And the devil that deceived them was cast alive into the lake burning with fire and brimstone...

Lord Jesus speed the day!

 

[AndTheWordWasGOD]

Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that while I know my salvation is secure because of what Jesus did and for no other reason, obedience on my part brings more blessings in this life.

FlSnookman7: and then in the world to come eternal life!

Mat 19:29-30 KJV
(29) And every one that has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife,
or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
(30) But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


Mar 10:27-31 KJV
(27) And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
(28) Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed you.
(29) And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
(30) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(31) But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.