Covenant Theology (Reformed) Is Not Replacement Theology

[Locutus]

And Jews are coming to saving faith now. God has not cast away His ppl He foreknew. Look up 'foreknew'.

I wus just thinking along these lines while considering a response to Romans 11 for my "Jesus failed" thread - we don't know how many Jews/Israelites have come into the church since the 1st century.

But to assume a mass conversion/salvation from Paul in Romans 11 is contrary to what the scriptures stated and Paul reiterated

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Many do not pay attention to the "cut it short" and "a short work" in the above

 

[J7]

How do the scriptures that you cited contradict those that I cited? You have not even addressed the Scripture I cited.

'Jeremiah wrote this during the Babylonian captivity; which means that Israel had ceased to exist as a nation about 200 years earlier during the Assyrian captivity. Hence this must be understood as a promise of future restoration fulfilled 11/18/1949.'


Israel is a people. Those people were all brought into the New Covenant by Christ, as per his promise to Moses; so therefore Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled.

 

[Bogadile]

Covenant theology is "made up theology". I heard John Piper explain it or whoever it was, complete philosophy, the Godhead supposedly got together and the 3 agreed to a covenant to redeem His people.

All of this is obviously no where mentioned in Scriptures, and is completely read into the text and made up. They then use this lense to read the Scriptures through.

I do not want to sound harsh, which I probably already did, but I am stunned as to how anyone could believe that. It just seems so made up and manmade as can be.
And yes I am aware that dispensationalism as it is today is also a fresh invention, however atleast they get their 7 dispensations from biblical texts.

As for the Church always being God's people, sure if you want to interpret the Septuagint use of the word ekklesia that way. BUT: Jesus said that I WILL build my church upon this rock, future tense. So clearly something new and different was coming.

 

[J7]

All fulfilled already. The Levitical priesthood was abolished, and now all Israelites (aka Christians) are Priests.
This was of course God's original intent until he was derailed by apostasy.

Exodus 19
6 [FONT=&quot]And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.[/FONT]

An excerpt from my commentary on Jeremiah:

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

They shall teach no more ... every man his brother ... for they shall all know me from the least ... unto the greatest of them. True specially of Israel (Isa 54:13); secondarily true of believers (John 6:45; 1 Cor 2:10; 1 John 2:20).
I will forgive their iniquity, and ... remember their sin no more -
(Jer 33:8; 50:20; Mic 7:18-19) applying peculiarly to Israel (Rom 11:26-27); secondarily, all believers (Acts 10:43).
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, in Public Domain via E-Sword.)

[I consider it remarkable that 3 Scotsmen, with no Jewish connections, publishing in 1868, would have such insight. It demonstrates that Jesus’ (Yeshua’s) promise that the Holy Spirit would guide believers into all truth (Jn 16:13) is trustworthy. M.R.]

 

[MarcR]

'Jeremiah wrote this during the Babylonian captivity; which means that Israel had ceased to exist as a nation about 200 years earlier during the Assyrian captivity. Hence this must be understood as a promise of future restoration fulfilled 11/18/1949.'


Israel is a people. Those people were all brought into the New Covenant by Christ, as per his promise to Moses; so therefore Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled.

How do you explain Zech Chapters 12-14?

 

[Bogadile]

All fulfilled already. The Levitical priesthood was abolished, and now all Israelites (aka Christians) are Priests.
This was of course God's original intent until he was derailed by apostasy.

Exodus 19
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Great catch. Peter does quote that and apply it to Gentiles (I assume they are gentiles, since the letter greets among others; Galatians).

I still wonder, what could this mean: "they shall teach no more every man his brother for they shall all know me from the least unto the greatest"
Certainly this is not fulfilled yet, atleast we the Christians still have to go out and spread the Gospel, and even amongst ourselves we have teachers and preachers.
So perhaps this will be fulfilled entirely in the future, to the houses of Israel and Judah.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Covenant theology is "made up theology". I heard John Piper explain it or whoever it was, complete philosophy, the Godhead supposedly got together and the 3 agreed to a covenant to redeem His people.

All of this is obviously no where mentioned in Scriptures, and is completely read into the text and made up. They then use this lense to read the Scriptures through.

I do not want to sound harsh, which I probably already did, but I am stunned as to how anyone could believe that. It just seems so made up and manmade as can be.
And yes I am aware that dispensationalism as it is today is also a fresh invention, however atleast they get their 7 dispensations from biblical texts.

As for the Church always being God's people, sure if you want to interpret the Septuagint use of the word ekklesia that way. BUT: Jesus said that I WILL build my church upon this rock, future tense. So clearly something new and different was coming.

The promise is to 'seed' not 'seeds', and this Seed is the Christ. All who are saved are in this Seed and have those promises. There's no two ppl of God, only one. These ppl, both Jews and Gentiles, are one in the Christ.

Romans 2 can not be any clearer about this. So is Galatians 4.

 

[Bogadile]

The promise is to 'seed' not 'seeds', and this Seed is the Christ. All who are saved are in this Seed and have those promises. There's no two ppl of God, only one. These ppl, both Jews and Gentiles, are one in the Christ.

Romans 2 can not be any clearer about this. So is Galatians 4.

Yup I agree. No jew nor gentile in Christ Jesus.

 

[1ofthem]

why limit it to this thread?

there are certain threads that cannot be posted in unless you are aggressive and looking to fight

some of you would correct the Bible itself if you could

constantly picking on others and LOLing while doing it

lovely

Me and preach go way back like Cadillac seats...lol

But honestly though, from what I heard from him on his beliefs... him calling me names does not offend me at all...I'd be more offended if he thought I was agreeing with him

 

[preacher4truth]

And Jews are coming to saving faith now. God has not cast away His ppl He foreknew. Look up 'foreknew'.

She's just bent against the doctrine of election and hates it, and those who believe it.

If anyone believes in it, knows they are saved because God elected them, to her they are high minded, proud, arrogant and become victims of her slander. Thus her unfounded diatribe on this reformed OP. She's seeing things that aren't there and is making false accusations.

Some people will never face the fact that God did it all, even electing whom He willed to save.

There is no pride like the arrogance found among those who think they voted themselves into heaven by the power of their will. They hate that God did the electing, so, they humbly did it themselves.

And they humbly know better than God, and His Word.

 

[Muzungu256]

i do love israel u see. and i read the bible its israel everywhere and all over. often times they are considered superior to gentiles even Jesus called a gentile woman a dog since He was only sent to the lost sheep of israel....... its kind of sad to me being a gentile that sometimes when i listen to preachers u see i feel like a second class citizen in the kingdom, but God can do what He wants sure..... i dont know any hebrew or how to keep the jewish feasts or any culture or anything u see i dont know any jews in real life..........

and in the past i made a thread about asking how can these white guys really know they are authentic in their bloodline to abraham???? that was my point in the thread that they look european im not mocking or calling names just pointing out u see.

 

[1ofthem]

She's just bent against the doctrine of election and hates it, and those who believe it.

If anyone believes in it, knows they are saved because God elected them, to her they are high minded, proud, arrogant and become victims of her slander. Thus her unfounded diatribe on this reformed OP. She's seeing things that aren't there and is making false accusations.

Some people will never face the fact that God did it all, even electing whom He willed to save.

There is no pride like the arrogance found among those who think they voted themselves into heaven by the power of their will. They hate that God did the electing, so, they humbly did it themselves.

And they humbly know better than God, and His Word.

Here in lies the slander that you talk about....

She's just bent against the doctrine of election and hates it, and those who believe it.

That's another one of your misconceptions about me...I don't hate anyone... so tell me ol' wise one what was that sentence you wrote, if not slander.

Anywho, just because I don't agree with you or anyone else does not mean I hate them. I don't hate anyone and that is the God's honest truth...Just Saying

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Me and preach go way back like Cadillac seats...lol

But honestly though, from what I heard from him on his beliefs... him calling me names does not offend me at all...I'd be more offended if he thought I was agreeing with him

LOL!

I see your point

 

[Locutus]

and in the past i made a thread about asking how can these white guys really know they are authentic in their bloodline to abraham???? that was my point in the thread that they look european im not mocking or calling names just pointing out u see.

All the genealogical records were lost in destruction of the temple in 66-70 AD as far as I know - so none of them can trace their descent from the 12 tribes.

 

[IamWhoIam]

There's a few reform doc. The popular ones being from John Calvin, John Knox, Martin Luther etc.

ive look into just of few of these, the first one Calvinist doctrine is satanic doctrine of no good at all. Pretty much satan tickled John Calvin's ear about just simply right them off as predestined to hell as a way to not forgive others. John Calvin already was struggling with forgiveness satan tricked him into writing a false doctrine to take the easy way out.

 

[garee]

I wus just thinking along these lines while considering a response to Romans 11 for my "Jesus failed" thread - we don't know how many Jews/Israelites have come into the church since the 1st century.

From the time of reformation the need of using the flesh of one nation that was formed temporally from two gentile nations has disappeared .They become just as any other gentile nation ,a gentile, unconverted natural man . .

Ezekiel 16:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

That nation he did use for a special time period as types and shadows is not used any more . The time of reformation has come. Reformations restore order to another time period. (System restore) This is when there was not outward representative and God reigned as King of kings from heaven unseen .

The nation of the Jew reverts back to the gentiles when Christ said it is finished. They are no longer used as shadows and types in ceremonial laws (laws that govern ceremonies to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand. ) not moral laws that govern morals.

Not all Israel is Israel as the elect or what scripture refers to as an inward Jew born of the Spirit of Christ. . The fullness of the gentile today includes the Jewish nation.

Israel, those elected to salvation called by the new name God named His bride the church is, Christian. She is made up of all the nations of the world. God the father of many nations is no respecter of persons, never was never will be.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:. Rom 11:25

The all Israel that will be saved is the elect again named by God the new name Christian, a word that denoted the bride of Christ as residents of the holy heavenly city the new Jerusalem not seen prepared as His bride the church...

The fullness of the gentiles is the fullness of all who are born into this world.

When the last person is given birth when God breathes spirit life into the flesh then we will have the fulness .Again it includes the nation of Israel as a gentile nation..

The time of refomation has come.

 

[garee]

ive look into just of few of these, the first one Calvinist doctrine is satanic doctrine of no good at all. Pretty much satan tickled John Calvin's ear about just simply right them off as predestined to hell as a way to not forgive others. John Calvin already was struggling with forgiveness satan tricked him into writing a false doctrine to take the easy way out.

Satan would have people to believe God is not a God of mercy and he would have people to suffer for ever and ever a because God did not have mercy on some.

I would say it depends on how the scripture defines the word mercy as to how it is used and is God subject to it as a law not subject to change?

Can’t l kick a dead horse .Calvin’s dead. No scare tactics, scarring people to believe rather than giving the creature the faith coming from one not seen to believe.. (not of one self) is turning things upside down.

As far as forgiveness . I think he might of understood that we fear God because with him there is forgiveness without him there is none. . If he would take in account one sin suffered against Him who could stand before this throne of grace and receive mercy?

Can't fear God aright without his mercy.No fear of God no mercy of forgiveness.Just mercy of no more suffering.

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.Psa 130:8


People are not predestined to suffer forever and ever because God did not have mercy with forgiveness on them.(that's not mercy)

That would make God evil as well as the word mercy..

He has mercy on whom he has mercy or mercy is no longer considered mercy. The Holy Spirit finds himself under the same law below which would be self-condemning if he made men suffer for ever and ever.. .

Jam 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Those he has not had mercy on will not be raised to new spirit life. The idea of them suffering and we fear God to avoid suffering forever and ever is not a biblical teaching. (Scare tactic) Because he is merciful they will die and not suffer any longer. The suffering of this life (hell) are finished .

Again as a new creation given a new spirit that could never die we then can fear him aright because with him there is forgiveness. And not a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries who will never rise to new spiritual life. .To be devoured is to be no more.(no spirit life)

 

[IamWhoIam]

Satan would have people to believe God is not a God of mercy and he would have people to suffer for ever and ever a because God did not have mercy on some.

I would say it depends on how the scripture defines the word mercy as to how it is used and is God subject to it as a law not subject to change?

Can’t l kick a dead horse .Calvin’s dead. No scare tactics, scarring people to believe rather than giving the creature the faith coming from one not seen to believe.. (not of one self) is turning things upside down.

As far as forgiveness . I think he might of understood that we fear God because with him there is forgiveness without him there is none. . If he would take in account one sin suffered against Him who could stand before this throne of grace and receive mercy?

Can't fear God aright without his mercy.No fear of God no mercy of forgiveness.Just mercy of no more suffering.

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.Psa 130:8


People are not predestined to suffer forever and ever because God did not have mercy with forgiveness on them.(that's not mercy)

That would make God evil as well as the word mercy..

He has mercy on whom he has mercy or mercy is no longer considered mercy. The Holy Spirit finds himself under the same law below which would be self-condemning if he made men suffer for ever and ever.. .

Jam 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Those he has not had mercy on will not be raised to new spirit life. The idea of them suffering and we fear God to avoid suffering forever and ever is not a biblical teaching. (Scare tactic) Because he is merciful they will die and not suffer any longer. The suffering of this life (hell) are finished .

Again as a new creation given a new spirit that could never die we then can fear him aright because with him there is forgiveness. And not a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries who will never rise to new spiritual life. .To be devoured is to be no more.(no spirit life)

john Calvin was a murderer he killed people, he struggled to forgive those who cast him out of their church, the Catholic Church mainly yet they got their own issues with false stuff so John Calvin had a point in what they were doing but as well he struggled with forgiving others in his life as well. John Calvin became a cold hearted man.

the Holy Spirit is not under a law, the Holy Spirit dispenses the law teaches people to forgive, James 2:13 is the same thing as forgive others and you will be forgiven for your sins.

if you believe in Jesus that He died on the cross for your sins, a person will know God's mercy by becoming one of his elect. that's not predestined but of your choice and that choice will keep a person from suffering in hell, they won't be cast into it but saved from it.

You've posted to me before about God creating evil, a hurricane kills people in its path, volcanos kill people in its path, very large asteroids can kill a whole planet and a whole list of natural events that happened in life that kill life. Who created these natural things are these evil, not in my book but for some who doesn't know why these things happens why God allows them it can be very tuff to swallow no doubt.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

There's a few reform doc. The popular ones being from John Calvin, John Knox, Martin Luther etc.

ive look into just of few of these, the first one Calvinist doctrine is satanic doctrine of no good at all. Pretty much satan tickled John Calvin's ear about just simply right them off as predestined to hell as a way to not forgive others. John Calvin already was struggling with forgiveness satan tricked him into writing a false doctrine to take the easy way out.

we have pretty much covered Calvin lately, along with his penchant for killing those who questioned his questionable doctrines

that would definitely be satanic. the devil always wants to shut up the ones who point out his lies

 

[Muzungu256]

All the genealogical records were lost in destruction of the temple in 66-70 AD as far as I know - so none of them can trace their descent from the 12 tribes.

yes i have heard this also u see......... but then again u can become a jew by taking on the laws of moses circumcision torah and tings...... so that makes these guys real jews then