Revelation 12 Sign: September 23,2017
- Thread starter watcher2013
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I fail to see the date in these passages.
The woman is the one who gives birth to the man child who is clearly Jesus. as it is written:
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Who is this child?
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
It is the Messiah that comes from the woman.
The woman is:
Jer_6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.
Israel is the woman in which Jesus the messiah was born.
It was Christ who after He went up to God sat on the throne of God at His right hand.
This is a past event, these things have happened. It was after this that the woman who became The christian church was persecuted by Satan and had to flee into the wilderness.
notice how long:
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation then goes back and repeats this and mentions this time again here:
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
both times are three and a half years. or 42 months or 1260 days all the same time period reckoned by Jewish months.
This is mentioned in Daniel:
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Same power that took place again in our past but after Jesus went to heaven.
The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel when the child is born they are the 12 Apostles after Jesus ascends.
Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Joseph is the 12 star, the tribes of Israel. etc.
Revelation 12 is but the expanded version of the first prophecy made to Adam and Eve:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Revelation 12 is about the serpent of old who attacks Jesus the seed of the woman but he is called up and then the Serpent goes after the woman or church and eventually meets up against the risen saviour and gets crushed in Revelation 20.
Blessings.
The woman is the one who gives birth to the man child who is clearly Jesus. as it is written:
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Who is this child?
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
It is the Messiah that comes from the woman.
The woman is:
Jer_6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.
Israel is the woman in which Jesus the messiah was born.
It was Christ who after He went up to God sat on the throne of God at His right hand.
This is a past event, these things have happened. It was after this that the woman who became The christian church was persecuted by Satan and had to flee into the wilderness.
notice how long:
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation then goes back and repeats this and mentions this time again here:
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
both times are three and a half years. or 42 months or 1260 days all the same time period reckoned by Jewish months.
This is mentioned in Daniel:
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Same power that took place again in our past but after Jesus went to heaven.
The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel when the child is born they are the 12 Apostles after Jesus ascends.
Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Joseph is the 12 star, the tribes of Israel. etc.
Revelation 12 is but the expanded version of the first prophecy made to Adam and Eve:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Revelation 12 is about the serpent of old who attacks Jesus the seed of the woman but he is called up and then the Serpent goes after the woman or church and eventually meets up against the risen saviour and gets crushed in Revelation 20.
Blessings.
If you want to focus on our day then you need to get to the end of the matter which is here:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
the war of Satan against the church, His army is on the next chapter the sea beast and the land beast or chapter 13.
Gods army is in chapter 14 with three messages to go to the whole world just before Jesus comes to harvest at the end of 14.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
the war of Satan against the church, His army is on the next chapter the sea beast and the land beast or chapter 13.
Gods army is in chapter 14 with three messages to go to the whole world just before Jesus comes to harvest at the end of 14.
Well September 23,2017,does not hold any significance,and the woman clothed with the sun,and the moon under her feet,has significance that she has glory from God,the nation of Israel,which the 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel,and she gave birth to a man child,Jesus,who was caught up to the throne in heaven.
And then after that it goes on to state events that happen after that which goes on for years,which goes down to the last 7 years,which Israel is protected for the 7 years period from physical attack,because God has the plan to restore the kingdom on earth to her.
Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
The last generation before Jesus put the world down,which we see today.Children disobedient to parents on a big level,pure in their own eyes,but are not washed from their filthiness,highly selfish,and highly arrogant,and aggressive towards each other,and will heap money to themselves which they can never have enough,and not satisfied,which the poor and needy will perish as a result.
We see this going on.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
This is going on.The new age movement that interprets the Bible according to spiritual evolution through nature,and exalts people.
But it is not going on forbid to marry,and abstain from meats yet,for that is the future,for the new age movement is the future for this sinful world,and the man of sin will promote the new age movement for three and one half years before he claims to be God.
In the future,worldwide.Forbid to marry,population reduction,which if they want sex they have to be homosexual,so they will push it right now,and try to get it out in the public as much as possible,and to be accepted before that time.
Abstain from meat,vegetarian,nature worshippers.
This occurs in the latter times,which in the first century was not the latter times,far from it.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
In the future,happening on a worldwide level,which the unified religious system includes all religions,interpreted by spiritual evolution through nature,and any belief than that is not compatible,interpreted as such,and it will be a hate crime to try to convert someone to your religion,punishable in the international criminal court system,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth.
The religion of Islam will rebel causing a terrible war that causes the world to follow the man of sin as the solution to have peace on earth.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The time will come the world will not want to hear the Bible as it has been taught for years,but want to hear it according to the new age movement,and the unified religious system will go on for three and one half years,and cause the falling away first,which is the condition of the world in not accepting the truth of the Bible,and God can now allow the man of sin to deceive all who do not love Him,for He gave them an allotted time to turn to Him,and they did not.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
When the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible,and it causes the falling away first,then the transgressors have come to the full for they are at their most rebellious apart from being deceived by the man of sin,and then the man of sin shall deceive all who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,and then God will put the world down.
This is future,for when the 7 years start that will be when the ten horn kingdom will rule,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the unified religious system will operate,for three and one half years,and salvation is still available to the world,as God gives them a chance to turn to Him.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
This is future.The kingdom on earth restored to Israel.
Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
This is future.The kingdom restored to Israel,and no operating Gentile nation,or government,and the heathen have to go up year after year,and worship the LORD.
The 1000 years is not spiritual,but a physical reign on earth,and Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth,so Jesus has been reigning ever since He ascended to heaven,so why do some people say it is only a 1000 years.
Jesus shall rule the nations with a rod of iron,which means everybody complies,and acknowledges Him,which we have not seen that happen ever since He ascended to heaven.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
This is future.Israel is blinded in part,they acknowledge the Old Testament for the majority,but do not accept Christ,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved,for God will turn Israel to the truth by 2 witnesses,and physical Israel will become spiritual,and Jesus will save them when the beast and the world attacks them.
Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say,blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.
The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,which God said He will bring them out of the nations,and will leave none of them in the nations anymore,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated.
The Gentile nations will come together,and say,Peace and safety,as they try to establish peace on earth.
The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and the Jews will rebuild their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians,and since Israel is blinded in part they will go back to animal sacrifices.
The world will operate by the ten horn kingdom,and the unified religious system,for three and one half years,and the man of sin will promote the new age movement,and will be the time that the world will not endure the truth of the Bible,which will cause the falling away first,bringing about the transgressors coming to the full,which will cause the man of sin to deceive al people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,repentance,and salvation is no longer available to them,and the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
God will then send Israel 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth for three and one half years,and after that time will go against the world,and the world will attack Jerusalem,the Jews,and Jesus will come back with all the saints,and defeat the world,and save Israel,and the kingdom will be restored to Israel.
To make a long story short.There are things that have not happened yet,and are future,and 2030 does not sound that bad if the 7 years period starts 2023,which is only 6 years away.
And it is obvious that they are future,for the new age movement happens at the latter times,which has to apply to today,and the transgressors have not come to the full yet,for the world is still responding to the Bible,and allowing it to be preached according to truth,and the Gentile nations are still operating,and Israel is blinded in part,and have not come to the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah,and the nations still war with each other,and the animals are against animals,and people,which would not happen during the millennial reign,and everybody on earth will only recognize the LORD,and no one else,and Gentiles still have salvation available to them.
So there is still time to go before the 7 years period starts.amd before God puts down the world.
September 23,2017,will be just another day,and the world is getting discouraged with the date setting of certain events,and eventually they will say the Bible is not true for these events do not happen,and the fear of the Bible that the world has now,for they think it could be true,so they like to leave it alone,will have gone away,and they can proceed forth to try to establish peace on earth by the ways of people.
Like when the Pharisees sent officers to take Jesus,and they came back empty handed,and the Pharisees said to the officers,why did you not take Him,and they said,because no man spoke like this man before,causing doubt in their mind that He might be from God,and telling the truth,so they better leave Him alone,and not take the chance.
That is how the world views the Bible,they fear it,and doubt it,and it might be telling the truth,so they think we better leave it alone,for if it is true we do not want to go against God.
But the pre-trib resurrection is the most popular belief concerning when the resurrection will take place,which they say it will be before the 7 years happens,and the world will most likely believe that is the interpretation concerning Christianity.
But the world has heard Jesus is coming on this date,and the antichrist will appear on this date,and now September 23,2017,something will happen,and when the pre-trib resurrection does not happen that will probably be the final straw for the world,and they will say the Bible is not true,and it was the new age movement that has the correct interpretation of the Bible,and then the fear,and doubt,will dissipate,and they will proceed forth with trying to achieve peace on earth giving no heed to a higher power,but spiritual evolution through nature as their higher power,for the man of sin will regard no god,but acknowledge the God of forces,or the power of nature as His higher power.
And then after that it goes on to state events that happen after that which goes on for years,which goes down to the last 7 years,which Israel is protected for the 7 years period from physical attack,because God has the plan to restore the kingdom on earth to her.
Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
The last generation before Jesus put the world down,which we see today.Children disobedient to parents on a big level,pure in their own eyes,but are not washed from their filthiness,highly selfish,and highly arrogant,and aggressive towards each other,and will heap money to themselves which they can never have enough,and not satisfied,which the poor and needy will perish as a result.
We see this going on.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
This is going on.The new age movement that interprets the Bible according to spiritual evolution through nature,and exalts people.
But it is not going on forbid to marry,and abstain from meats yet,for that is the future,for the new age movement is the future for this sinful world,and the man of sin will promote the new age movement for three and one half years before he claims to be God.
In the future,worldwide.Forbid to marry,population reduction,which if they want sex they have to be homosexual,so they will push it right now,and try to get it out in the public as much as possible,and to be accepted before that time.
Abstain from meat,vegetarian,nature worshippers.
This occurs in the latter times,which in the first century was not the latter times,far from it.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
In the future,happening on a worldwide level,which the unified religious system includes all religions,interpreted by spiritual evolution through nature,and any belief than that is not compatible,interpreted as such,and it will be a hate crime to try to convert someone to your religion,punishable in the international criminal court system,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth.
The religion of Islam will rebel causing a terrible war that causes the world to follow the man of sin as the solution to have peace on earth.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The time will come the world will not want to hear the Bible as it has been taught for years,but want to hear it according to the new age movement,and the unified religious system will go on for three and one half years,and cause the falling away first,which is the condition of the world in not accepting the truth of the Bible,and God can now allow the man of sin to deceive all who do not love Him,for He gave them an allotted time to turn to Him,and they did not.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
When the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible,and it causes the falling away first,then the transgressors have come to the full for they are at their most rebellious apart from being deceived by the man of sin,and then the man of sin shall deceive all who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,and then God will put the world down.
This is future,for when the 7 years start that will be when the ten horn kingdom will rule,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the unified religious system will operate,for three and one half years,and salvation is still available to the world,as God gives them a chance to turn to Him.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
This is future.The kingdom on earth restored to Israel.
Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
This is future.The kingdom restored to Israel,and no operating Gentile nation,or government,and the heathen have to go up year after year,and worship the LORD.
The 1000 years is not spiritual,but a physical reign on earth,and Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth,so Jesus has been reigning ever since He ascended to heaven,so why do some people say it is only a 1000 years.
Jesus shall rule the nations with a rod of iron,which means everybody complies,and acknowledges Him,which we have not seen that happen ever since He ascended to heaven.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
This is future.Israel is blinded in part,they acknowledge the Old Testament for the majority,but do not accept Christ,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved,for God will turn Israel to the truth by 2 witnesses,and physical Israel will become spiritual,and Jesus will save them when the beast and the world attacks them.
Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say,blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.
The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,which God said He will bring them out of the nations,and will leave none of them in the nations anymore,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated.
The Gentile nations will come together,and say,Peace and safety,as they try to establish peace on earth.
The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and the Jews will rebuild their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians,and since Israel is blinded in part they will go back to animal sacrifices.
The world will operate by the ten horn kingdom,and the unified religious system,for three and one half years,and the man of sin will promote the new age movement,and will be the time that the world will not endure the truth of the Bible,which will cause the falling away first,bringing about the transgressors coming to the full,which will cause the man of sin to deceive al people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,repentance,and salvation is no longer available to them,and the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
God will then send Israel 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth for three and one half years,and after that time will go against the world,and the world will attack Jerusalem,the Jews,and Jesus will come back with all the saints,and defeat the world,and save Israel,and the kingdom will be restored to Israel.
To make a long story short.There are things that have not happened yet,and are future,and 2030 does not sound that bad if the 7 years period starts 2023,which is only 6 years away.
And it is obvious that they are future,for the new age movement happens at the latter times,which has to apply to today,and the transgressors have not come to the full yet,for the world is still responding to the Bible,and allowing it to be preached according to truth,and the Gentile nations are still operating,and Israel is blinded in part,and have not come to the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah,and the nations still war with each other,and the animals are against animals,and people,which would not happen during the millennial reign,and everybody on earth will only recognize the LORD,and no one else,and Gentiles still have salvation available to them.
So there is still time to go before the 7 years period starts.amd before God puts down the world.
September 23,2017,will be just another day,and the world is getting discouraged with the date setting of certain events,and eventually they will say the Bible is not true for these events do not happen,and the fear of the Bible that the world has now,for they think it could be true,so they like to leave it alone,will have gone away,and they can proceed forth to try to establish peace on earth by the ways of people.
Like when the Pharisees sent officers to take Jesus,and they came back empty handed,and the Pharisees said to the officers,why did you not take Him,and they said,because no man spoke like this man before,causing doubt in their mind that He might be from God,and telling the truth,so they better leave Him alone,and not take the chance.
That is how the world views the Bible,they fear it,and doubt it,and it might be telling the truth,so they think we better leave it alone,for if it is true we do not want to go against God.
But the pre-trib resurrection is the most popular belief concerning when the resurrection will take place,which they say it will be before the 7 years happens,and the world will most likely believe that is the interpretation concerning Christianity.
But the world has heard Jesus is coming on this date,and the antichrist will appear on this date,and now September 23,2017,something will happen,and when the pre-trib resurrection does not happen that will probably be the final straw for the world,and they will say the Bible is not true,and it was the new age movement that has the correct interpretation of the Bible,and then the fear,and doubt,will dissipate,and they will proceed forth with trying to achieve peace on earth giving no heed to a higher power,but spiritual evolution through nature as their higher power,for the man of sin will regard no god,but acknowledge the God of forces,or the power of nature as His higher power.
The devil in Job was going up and down to and fro in the earth. In his answer to where he was it seems he was not at that time going to an fro in the earth and in another place. In Genesis he is in pardes gan, and in the new testament he is spoken of as in the earth again.
It is not that he did not go to and fro up and down in the earth,nor that he then was frequently found in the earth in the days of the apostles but in that in Revelation 12 he and the angels that followed him were cast out into the earth and they no longer are permitted into heaven,(cast out).
When did this take place?
It is not that he did not go to and fro up and down in the earth,nor that he then was frequently found in the earth in the days of the apostles but in that in Revelation 12 he and the angels that followed him were cast out into the earth and they no longer are permitted into heaven,(cast out).
When did this take place?
You don't understand the plan. I gave you the information that when Christ was crucified God put that last seven years on hold and began to build the church. Once completed, then the Lord will gather His church and will pick up right where He left off with Israel fulfilling that the last seven years, which is meant to coincide with the end of the age. It is at the end of the seven years, after God's wrath has been poured out that Jesus will return to the earth to end the age.
The problem with your interpretation is that, no seven year agreement has ever been made with Israel, no abomination has been set up which causes Israel to flee out into the wilderness where she is cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years where at which time the Lord returns to the earth nor has the beast even been revealed. During that seven years the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place and we haven't seen any of them.
I wish that the people who haven't studied Revelation and end-time events and who just repeat the teachings of men, would stop teaching on these subjects. I look forward to the Lord's vindication that what I have been teaching is the truth and that what you and others have been teaching are false teachings. Unfortunately you won't find out until it is revealed directly to you.
You're just part of the on-going problem of false techings. Don't bother responding. I've been putting all of those who teach this non-sense and more on ignore, because frankly I'm tired of hearing this junk.
The problem with your interpretation is that, no seven year agreement has ever been made with Israel, no abomination has been set up which causes Israel to flee out into the wilderness where she is cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years where at which time the Lord returns to the earth nor has the beast even been revealed. During that seven years the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place and we haven't seen any of them.
I wish that the people who haven't studied Revelation and end-time events and who just repeat the teachings of men, would stop teaching on these subjects. I look forward to the Lord's vindication that what I have been teaching is the truth and that what you and others have been teaching are false teachings. Unfortunately you won't find out until it is revealed directly to you.
You're just part of the on-going problem of false techings. Don't bother responding. I've been putting all of those who teach this non-sense and more on ignore, because frankly I'm tired of hearing this junk.
Last edited:
In reading the thread again, when I saw this post again, the same thought came to me as the first time I read it. You may not see what I saw or think what I say makes any sense with your post, but here goes. 
Both times here is what came to my mind.
The verse that says (my paraphrase) - those of you who are wishing for the day of the Lord, you have no idea what you are doing in wishing for the day of the Lord to be here. It will be an awful and distressing day!
And in my mind at the same time were the verses that say things like...those who love His appearing and who hasten His coming.
And I starkly saw that the verses were of different timeframes. We should look with hope for His appearing but the previous verse says those who want the day of the Lord to come do not have any idea what they are wishing for. So they are different occasions. One is our gathering and the other is after our gathering.
That's what I saw both times I read your post. How the verses seem to war with one another unless you see they are two different things.
Both times here is what came to my mind.
The verse that says (my paraphrase) - those of you who are wishing for the day of the Lord, you have no idea what you are doing in wishing for the day of the Lord to be here. It will be an awful and distressing day!
And in my mind at the same time were the verses that say things like...those who love His appearing and who hasten His coming.
And I starkly saw that the verses were of different timeframes. We should look with hope for His appearing but the previous verse says those who want the day of the Lord to come do not have any idea what they are wishing for. So they are different occasions. One is our gathering and the other is after our gathering.
That's what I saw both times I read your post. How the verses seem to war with one another unless you see they are two different things.
I had another thought this morning regarding this.
No man knows the day or hour of His return. Even Jesus Himself said He did not know, neither did the angels. And we have many other verses that tell us it will be suddenly.
IF this were referring to when He comes at the end, it would be quite easy to know the day of His return. 7 years, 42 months and 42 months could be counted down when we saw the things begin to happen that are foretold.
This would then seem a failed prophecy.
But it is our gathering/being shut in the ark/ our Bridegroom coming for us, that will come suddenly and no one knows when. It doesn't sound to me like there will be any discernible sign or big event but that it will be like in the days of Noah, all going on normally when it occurs.
So I think we confuse verses that speak of our gathering with verses that speak of Him coming when every eye will see Him, even those who are dead/who pierced Him.
Anyway, those were just my thoughts this morning.
Forgot my other thought. It makes no sense to say when He comes there will be prosperity and celebration - eating drinking, marrying - if there has been war, famine in which a loaf of bread costs a days wages, massive earthquakes, war, horrible things - IF all verses that speak of His coming are post wrath and post tribulation.
It has to be two different events being spoken of to make any kind of sense to me.
It has to be two different events being spoken of to make any kind of sense to me.
Jesus's return is impossible to predict, agreed.
Although the main reason I believe that Jesus spoke of an unexpected return was to stop people being complacent. There are many scriptures also which indicate a Church Age of 2000 years, so the thrust is to stop the Church going to sleep in this 2000 years.
Although the main reason I believe that Jesus spoke of an unexpected return was to stop people being complacent. There are many scriptures also which indicate a Church Age of 2000 years, so the thrust is to stop the Church going to sleep in this 2000 years.
Good morning j7!
I am very interested to hear these verses! Could you post them? I've never noted this.
I am very interested to hear these verses! Could you post them? I've never noted this.
Well, PE has posted one already.
Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
more to come
Good morning j7!
I am very interested to hear these verses! Could you post them? I've never noted this.
I am very interested to hear these verses! Could you post them? I've never noted this.
Mark talks of Jesus traveling to a far country, Luke tells us we have the Time Of The Gentiles, Matthew gives us the 'the sign of the Son of man in heaven', which may be the Book Of Revelation.
In Revelation we see 24 elders placed around the throne in a circle. This clearly is in the shape of a clock, indicating a reference to time. As a man lives to 70 or 80 according to the Bible, an elder seems to represent 80. 80 X 24 = 1920. So this possibly indicates a time-frame from the giving of Revelation in AD 96 to 2016. We also see various other long timeframes. (e.g. 1260 years for the Catholic Church).
The Time of the Gentiles is as I have suggested already, 1960 years from AD73.
More to come..