So you are saying you have to do something, i.e. exercise repentance and faith? I thought you said it did not depend on you in any way else you were somehow meriting it?
REFORMED?
- Thread starter MarcR
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Per John 3 Jesus lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Per John 12:32 God draws them to Jesus.
Per John 16 the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment.
Grace is given without merit on the part of the receiver. Mercy withholds what we do merit.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I have made it clear what I believe. You have made it clear what you believe. If we can't agree an what the words mean then neither of us is likely to persuade the other. I am not backed into any corner! I can walk away freely with my beliefs intact.
It is not my job to persuade you of anything. It is my job to share with you and everyone who will listen the truth as I understand it. I have done that with complete success. Do with it what you will. I harbor no hard feelings.
More than one but not in the way you intend.
What to do with people who claim to be saved by grace and then slam the door on others because they are not elite or the nicer word elect.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1) If you believe in Jesus Christ whom God has sent you receive forgiveness. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
2) If you do not believe - you are condemned and do not receive forgiveness - but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is the condition . . . if one does not believe in Jesus Christ, one does not receive forgiveness - if one believes in Jesus Christ, one receives forgiveness.
Did Jesus shed his blood for the remission of sins? Yes. Is that forgiveness available for all? Yes. How does one receive the forgiveness? through belief (faith) in Jesus Christ
People are going to believe what they choose to believe.
At least one side of this seemingly never ending debate between Calvinists and Arminians is going to discover they were dead wrong.
I stand for choice, as I am convinced that's what the Bible teaches.
It's sad that some cannot seem to defend their position without sarcasm and insults.
Once we are quickened to life via the regenerative power of God, and gifted faith & repentance, we exercise them, and not before. Dead ppl can't exercise anything, their will, their faith, &c. We were dead in transgressions & sins, but God made us alive in Christ, even whilst we were dead.
God moves unilaterally upon those He saves.
Look at it like this. You see someone drowned, dead floating on the water. They can't reach out and grab any floatation device you throw their way, seeing they are dead. You swim out and drag them to shore and administer CPR and they come back to life. They come to life because of what you did to them and not anything they did. They couldn't exercise their will to restart their heart, to take a deep breath and breathe again. It was solely because you unilaterally moved upon them.
That's how God works. He gives life to whoever He wills(John 5:21) and they exercise faith & repentance and are saved. But faith & repentance that is exercised by them is solely because God unilaterally moved upon them and brought them to life.
D
Depleted
Guest
Let me add to your confusion. Not all reformed are cessationists and not all cessationists are reformed.
[url]http://reasonablechristian.blogspot.com/2011/12/cessationists-in-rebellion-vincent.html[/URL]
Alrighty, riddle me this...why do some believe and others not so much?
Are those who believe heart not as hard?
Are they not as spiritually blind?
Are they not as spiritually dead?
You guys focus on what man has to do, and not what the Christ actually did, to garner sinners' salvation for them.
I find this rather troubling.
And I ask you these same questions...
Alrighty, riddle me this...why do some believe and others not so much?
Are those who believe heart not as hard?
Are they not as spiritually blind?
Are they not as spiritually dead?
You guys focus on what man has to do, and not what the Christ actually did, to garner sinners' salvation for them.
I find this rather troubling.
In your position and in attempts to defend it you have failed to do so and have supplied texts that do not bolster your statements whatsoever. This has been shown you on several occasions, and your recourse is always to accuse the person of some sort of "behavior."
Instead of going ad hominem, please try using passages in context, texts that actually deal with the subject matter you are espousing, and that actually back up what you're saying?
You have not done this in your last post. I've shown you this in your last post, the texts you referenced didn't support what you claimed.
Also, we get the idea that when you say we will be found dead wrong that what you really imply is that we are lost.
I'm pretty certain that is your position.
For the record I don't believe anti-cals are lost, just because they have differing views. Confused, in error, yes. Lost? No. I'll leave you and others to make those impplications.
And here's the clincher: We believe God granted us faith, repentance, eternal life, that He did 100% of the saving, and that this was not a reward for us choosing Him. And then we have people implying for that we are "going to hell."
On the other hand we have people who believe they clinched salvation by making the proper choice, which is heterodox at the least, yet we're not implying they are lost.
You've not offered any texts to show this, nor have you refuted any texts which show you to be in error.
What's really sad is that you resort to the ad hominem above, false accusations, and never really deal with the texts which refute your tradition of decisional regeneration. It's much easier to be snide than it is to prove your case. In debate it means you've failed to prove your case.
Brother, what you've shown is that you believe the cross of the Christ + us doing our part, garners salvation. So, its not the cross that actually saves sinners, but the cross + sinners works. That dog won't hunt.
But I agree, neither of us will relent our positions. Blessings my Brother.
When you define a Greek word differently than the four most respected lexicographers do then we are no longer speaking the same language however similar the words may appear.
I don't question your sincerity or your integrity. I do question whether anyone you disagree with is able to persuade you of anything.
Well, seeing I was once a semi-Pelagianist, who held to modalism, then Arianism, yep, I can't be persuaded of anything. Lullz.
Blessings my Brother.
Ask Brother P4T of how my beliefs once were what they were. We locked horns years ago.