Not By Works

loveme1 · Sep 25, 2017

1 Corinthians 1

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

When the Messiah was up on the cross they made comments like

He saved others, can't he save himself.. or if he be King of Israel let him now come down off the cross.. we see the Power GOD and Victory yet life on earth continues.. but now we can be born again of the Holy Spirit to be reconciled to GOD. And those that Love GOD Keep His Commandments through Faith in His Son.

Called to be a saint of the Most High....

followjesus · Sep 26, 2017

TruthTalk said:

lol the cross is not to be worshipped, it is not to put our faith in, it is absolutely meaningless without Jesus Christ, His Blood, His Name and every word He taught. im sure its " Nonsense to all of the grace alone folks, but so is the majority of the Bible nonsense to those who exalt idols. again, im not sure the rading comprehension is shining. can you honestly disagree that Jesus Christ and the Word of God is not where all the value is?

you cant be saved by the cross, only the One who suffered on it can save, and it is His words that make His words of the utmost importance. its not suprising that some would worship a cross and depend on a wooden crucifix to save them with all the false doctrine in the church. The cross is only a reminder for us of One of the things Jesus did for us, He died for us thats the message of the cross. salvation comes because of the empty tomb and the Gospel that offers the spirit of truth. cant be saved without the Holy spirit and How does that come ? well according to Jesus the Lord for those who would believe Him ?

john 14:If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you....v . 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me <<<<<<<<<<<<<
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which isthe Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

so then is there salvation without the Holy spirit then???? and isnt it pretty clear here to whom the spirit comes? His Gospel is as important as the cross or any other aspect of the Gospel, salvation is not offered By the cross its offered By Jesus Christ and no other source of salvation exists under Heaven But the One who bled and died and Rose and was taken to the right Hand of God and sent the Holy spirit to the World.

without Jesus and His gospel, the cross is 2 planks of wood. with Jesus and the Gospel, it leads to salvation.

followjesus · Sep 26, 2017

loveme1 said:

can the cross be preached apart from the One who suffered and died on it? or can it save those who reject His words? the "preaching of the cross" was pauls message that through the cross, all people, not only Jews were reconciled to God. the cross is what added the gentiles to the people of God. Notice who is responsble for Jesus death, Jewish priests accused and condemned Him, and Gentile romans crucified Him.

Both Jew and Gentile are guilty of Jesus Death, Pauls message was that of the apostle to Gentiles, Gentiles already Knew they werent included in Judaism the Idea that the God of israel, Had now extended His salvation to the Gentiles who the law excluded from belonging to God, were reconciled to God through the cross able to worship God. Pauls message was that the cross included all people and not only the Jews.

this is what the message of the cross really means

ephesians 2 :Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; ( jew and gentile)

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

pauls message of the cross is that by the cross Gentile and Jew are the same to God. he says the same thing a few times regarding this. we have to remember that the gentiles being included was a brand new thing and the cause of pauls many persecutions from the Jews, they hated that the gentiles were now included because up until then, they were the chosen and seperate peculiar people set apart to God.

Now though Pauls message of the cross was that the gentile Had been reconciled with the Jew, and both were now reconciled to God through the cross. Pauls message to the gentiles was unheard of in Jewish belief, offensive really, because paul was also saying " you are dead to the Law through the Body of Christ" and things Like that to the Jews , the Mosaic Law was everything and what made them special was being Gods chosen People. the jews were the main persecuters of christians including paul and the apostles.

when we are reading Paul we have to Keep in Mind, He was saying things that were newly revealed about the gentile inclusion. im not at all saying the cross is of no value, Im saying if you remove Jesus Christ, His Word and Blood.....the cross has no value. the Only thing that Makes the cross relevant is the One who suffered and died on it. its no more than a symbol. when He says things Like " I glory in the cross" or the " Message of the cross is..." he isnt saying to preach a cross, He is talking about the message of what Jesus did on the cross, and what He did 3 days later leaving the empty tomb behind.

My point is that the cross is nothing, without Jesus Christ, His Blood and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

TruthTalk · Sep 26, 2017

followjesus said:

The first thing you write is a complete lie. I never said or hinted that we should worship the cross, I said it had value and everyone reading this post knows that I did not say such a thing. And so you kick off your false gospel post with, "LOL", You are not only "rude", because you are telling lies, you are also going on "ignore the land that time forgot."

And by the way your point is pointless; you are nothing without the Cross; you got that wrong too, just another twisted gospel.

Glad that nonsense is gone.

graceNpeace · Sep 26, 2017

followjesus said:

lol the cross is not to be worshipped, it is not to put our faith in, it is absolutely meaningless without Jesus Christ, His Blood, His Name and every word He taught. im sure its " Nonsense to all of the grace alone folks, but so is the majority of the Bible nonsense to those who exalt idols. again, im not sure the rading comprehension is shining. can you honestly disagree that Jesus Christ and the Word of God is not where all the value is?

you cant be saved by the cross, only the One who suffered on it can save, and it is His words that make His words of the utmost importance. its not suprising that some would worship a cross and depend on a wooden crucifix to save them with all the false doctrine in the church. The cross is only a reminder for us of One of the things Jesus did for us, He died for us thats the message of the cross. salvation comes because of the empty tomb and the Gospel that offers the spirit of truth. cant be saved without the Holy spirit and How does that come ? well according to Jesus the Lord for those who would believe Him ?

john 14:If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you....v . 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me <<<<<<<<<<<<<
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which isthe Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

so then is there salvation without the Holy spirit then???? and isnt it pretty clear here to whom the spirit comes? His Gospel is as important as the cross or any other aspect of the Gospel, salvation is not offered By the cross its offered By Jesus Christ and no other source of salvation exists under Heaven But the One who bled and died and Rose and was taken to the right Hand of God and sent the Holy spirit to the World.

without Jesus and His gospel, the cross is 2 planks of wood. with Jesus and the Gospel, it leads to salvation.

The fact that you would write this rubbish is a direct function of your confusion...
Truthtalk was not referring to two bits of wood - one horizontal and one vertical - when he spoke of the cross!
Instead he was referring to who was on the cross and the significance of the events that unfolded.
The significance of the cross is something that you cannot appreciate due to your heretical stance denying the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Your post is just a gigantic straw-man - no Christian I know worships pieces of wood as an idol.
We all (Christians, that is) know what we are saying when we refer to the cross of Christ and it is most definitely nothing like your ridiculous accusations...

followjesus · Sep 26, 2017

TruthTalk said:

lol actually what began this is you attacking peter, exclaiming How" the cross was enough" and I then said, the cross is of no value >>>>>>>WITHOUT THE MAN WHO SUFFERED AND DIED ON IT, WITHOUT HIS BLOOD AND WORD.

and yes, when a person exalts anything over the Jesus Christ, thats equal to worshipping it. again maybe this is a misunderstanding here, let me ask you this

can the cross itself, save anyone or change anyone? or is it Jesus Christ, and what His Gospel offers us that is the value?

My point with worshipping the cross or even worshipping Grace. is that those are things God Has done for us, He gave His Son Jesus to us, and He simply carried the cross and died on it....."the cross" is a thing, two pieces of Wood. the Only value that the cross Has is the Man who suffered and died upon it. The blood that ran down it, Gods Word that Promised it long beforehand. without the Word of God, no one could possibly even Know about Jesus dying for us. im simply saying the s=cross alone isnt enough, it has no redeeming value, if you part it from Jesus and the Gospel. we wouldnt even have Known of it if not wfor the written word.

its strange to Have these Kinds of talks with christians, so many want to designate only One Principle and then Omit the rest. it actually all goes together, works together One aspect leads to another and another and another as we grow. none og it is to be made less But all things begin and end with Jesus Christ, and the Word of God Known as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. if you add that then yea the cross is valuable, if you remove Jesus and the gospel, its 2 planks of wood carved By a roman 2000 Years ago.

to say the cross is everything or all we need, is to say the rest isnt necassary. thats my point and when you are looking at peters words, He also is speaking about other things, No one is denying the "cross" Meaning what Jesus did On the cross and in the tomb and still does today. but there is more to it, More thats part of the same message. the cross Has great Value when you take it with the Gospel. without the Gospel the cross is of no value.

Sorry if ive offended you or anything, My point i feel though is pretty clear. without the Gospel of the Kingdom of God the cross doesnt lead anywhere because its not a liscence to never be punished for sin, its the gate to freedom from it, when you take the rest with it.

dcontroversal · Sep 26, 2017

PHart said:

Wrong again.....you will always be wrong when you place your salvation on what you do....a works based lie!

dcontroversal · Sep 26, 2017

preacher4truth said:

No, thankfully what you say isn't true and any thinking true convert can see this.

Salvation isn't based upon our performance, and, as per usual, you have the proverbial cart before the horse.

Thankfully, we are saved and are continuing to be saved by grace which comes from God, not because we continue to do something or perform. You're making the continuation of doing something as what saves the person, thus, it is dependent upon the person, not upon Christ. Yes, I know, you can insert your free will gospel that one can choose to stop believing, of which you are frankly obsessed.

One thing you do not see is the fact that Romans 8:29-30 is already completed in every true convert, glorification included, and the passage and exegesis of the text proves that true converts can never be lost. From foreknowing, to glorification, all will be experienced in every true convert.

The evidence of true conversion and salvation is perseverance of the faith. This isn't the cause of our salvation, nor does it assist our salvation, nor will salvation ever end for a true convert - these will always believe the Gospel. Those who have believed in vain were never saved in the first place. Their open disbelief down the road proves them to be impostors, note Matthew 13:18-23 for example of which you will claim all saved then some lost it.

Your lack of believing the Gospel properly causes you to conflate descriptive and prescriptive texts.

Look at it like this: I can describe a sheep, it has four legs, a woolly coat, grazes on grass &c. I've just described a sheep; it is what it is.

Scripture also describes sheep, it tells us what they look like, how they live, of their obedience &c. Scripture then uses texts which describes who are sheep, and who are not.

The latter portions of Paul's epistle's are generally descriptive in this fashion. 1 John also does this, describing "we" (sheep) and "they" (goats). You spend an exorbitant amount of time in attempt to prove goats are sheep so you can claim "they lost their salvation" of which teaching you are also obsessed yet it is unbiblical doctrine arrived at, again, by conflating texts.

Then there are things prescribed as to "*becoming" a sheep, simply put: "Repent, and believe the Gospel." That is how one is saved. (*not that I believe a goat becomes a sheep, but that He gathers His lost sheep into His fold)

But you rush in attempting to make sheep out of those who are already sheep by telling them they must keep believing, must do other things to remain a sheep. Scripture doesn't do this, you do it by misunderstanding texts of Scripture and make them into something they have to keep on doing or they will be lost. You fail here by taking descriptive texts and trying to prescribe them as a thing that they must do to remain a sheep. You also, as was previously shown, attempt to make goats into sheep. A goat cannot make it into heaven if it "keeps believing" because a goat has never truly believed.

But I digress, in your false gospel you see God sifting the wheat from the wheat instead of His wheat from the chaff and as separating sheep from sheep instead of sheep from the goats. Those are just more of your errors which need to be exposed.

I write this for those who have truly believed the Gospel in order to expose the errors, some subtle, of those who preach a false gospel of maintaining salvation via effort.

Amen.....Phart pushes a "I keep myself saved" fallacy.......

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

A honest discussion.

When words like, complete nonsense, no one believes .... , rubbish , is dishonouring to the subject
and a denial of valid observations.

A lot of believers do hold roles and principles in high regard. Transubstantiation, the breaking of bread
as a sacramental rite, a church that becomes a holy place. People talk about placing having a feel,
the presence of God appearing in a service, a word of the Lord carries power and significance in the
lives of people.

So if one is being honest, any reasonable proposition about emphasis and regard is important.
Now language does is a communication asset, and also a barrier. I love the Lord and will summarise
things like laying an issue at the foot of the cross for instance.

What this means for me, is putting the issue in perspective of the eternal sacrificial love Jesus showed
for us, so whatever self interest or feelings of defence, or rights, or pride I might have they melt away
here, and the feelings of rejection, condemnation, unworthiness, loneliness, are washed away, because
I know who matters, and what matters.

Now all claim the name of Jesus as Lord who follow Him.
But we need to study, consider, learn, share, discuss, worship, pray about, dwell with the Most High.
I hope brothers and sisters in Christ, if you start tearing down another because you do not like their
emphasis or ways they express their faith, can you learn to exercise forgiveness, love, grace, thinking
the best of your fellow Christian and share your experiences.

After many decades in the church, many view the faith as a book of positions, hold them sound, miss
them, apostate and heretical. I now see most of it boils down to this, do you see me, a human who
loves and follows my Lord, or just another to either rebuke or accept as one of the ok people.

If I was in mortal danger, would you help? If I was sick, would you visit, poor give me shelter, shaken,
put an arm around to comfort me, stand with me in the good and the bad times?

I have met many who theoretically these things might happen, but in reality, do not get involved, it
might lead to commitments or awkward situations. So which is it? A few sharp words or something
more real?

What I see here is not honest exchanges, but aggressive confrontation.
One says Jesus is Messiah, Lord, saviour, we follow yet do not obey or listen. So which is true, the
claims or the actions which show how deep it goes?

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

One simple observation - respect.
Let us listen to Paul

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
1 Peter 3:15-16

Mr Hart is a good man with a faith that burns strong within him.
You treat him like an enemy, and show disrespect to biblical principles which you claim to hold
dear, yet are throwing away. Faith and following Christ like the parable of the good samaritan
is about approach and care as well as foundations in God, and loving others.

What you do not realise in your faith hangs on a fragile thread of listening and following.
Attitudes expressed outside the Spirit sow a seed of rebellion, which as it is fed, corrupts the
walk and the spirit, so you end up jaded and far from Christ.

So in every sentence, every expression, the enemy sows seeds of ridicule, emnity, hatred,
provocation, anger, irritation and rather than being a light to the King who has brought us light,
it becomes just a fight of two people who are both loosing, because they are no longer honouring
the King they claim to represent. God bless you all, may we walk together in a bond of peace
and love through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Mar 13:13

You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 10:22

but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:13

For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter had tempted you and that our labors might have been in vain.
1 Thess 3:5

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:2

And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.
Phil 2:16

You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:22

We are saved because we believe God now in the present, not just believe but know
Him and walk in His ways, and love, that is His essence is our hearts desire and the
very fruit that flows from our lives.

To believe sounds like a distant phrase, I believe the sun will come up, I believe I
will have food today, facts that exist, but are not the core of me. Belief in Jesus,
is to know His heart, the thing that brings joy to who He is.

List to God talking about Job
Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.
Job 1:8

God is taking delight in Job and how He lives.
God takes delight in you and me. Do you know this?
We are the fruit of His gospel, the work of His Spirit in our lives.

Paul puts it like this

Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
2 Cor 3:5

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
Phil 2:3-4

It is easy to become like the world, and use its weapons, but in this already one is
defeated, and the spiritual battle lost. Why? Because the Kingdom is our place of
residence, and its ways are the ones we need to express, because they come from
the heart and not from the world of defence and defeat.

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

Extremes

Certain members make me think about their approach.
If someone can behave sinfully, miss treat others, lie, exagurate, ignore scripture, and still
feel Christ is their Lord, their position has to be wrong.

But what is it that causes this? We have one Lord and King in our lives, but it appears not
consistently across the fellowship.

Jesus said something profound, I had not seen before, which jumped out at me today.

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
I do not accept glory from human beings, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
John 5:39-42

What matters is the love of God in our hearts.

Very profound. It is this when I see in another humbles me, and breaks me.
It is not anything more, and I know my many failings, it is just to see love break
forth brings joy to my heart. So what are we when you break it all down?
We love God and all He is doing. Amen.

It is obvious to me, many are either confused or not on the same page.

PHart · Sep 26, 2017

dcontroversal said:

And still you can give no scripture that says 'believing' is included in the works that Paul says can not justify. Here's where Paul CONTRASTS believing with working:

"5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5 NASB)

Believing is not working, lol. How did the church get so messed up on this fundamental truth of the gospel? Now even believing is a work of the damnable works gospel. This is a joke, right?

PHart · Sep 26, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Just set me straight using scripture that my believing is an evil, damnable work of trying to keep myself saved and I will concede the debate. That's how easy you could shut me down. Do it, then I will concede defeat and go home and never bother anyone with 'my' gospel ever again. And you will have won. Can you do it?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2017

PHart said:

You cant get away from it can you? God said whoever believes has eternal life

You claim whoever believes may have eternal life, but only if they continue to believe

do we trust Christ or you?

Maybe one day you will get it.. But I have my doubts

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Here is the folly of not understanding language.

I am on a bridge. I trust it is safe so I can cross it.
One day I wake up and realise the bridge is an illusion, and there is just empty space.
I can no longer cross because there is no bridge.

Without the bridge there is no crossing to safety and I am stuck.
Belief in Christ is always in the present and is about communion with God which is salvation
on going in the present. Salvation is a hope for in the future, but it is just the present
continuing into the future. In the future if the communion is not there, there is no salvation.

The gospel is about communion, that in communion we are part of eternity, the eternal kingdom.
Visitors can partake and learn, but if they do not abide they are just visitors.

Being a visitor does not give you rights of a resident, only residents are there for good.

It is like living next to a stream. As long as the stream flows one has life. If the stream dries
up you die. How can a dead person claim they still have life and it is meaningful when it has
long ago left them.

Now those who do not know love and loving God think it is just becoming part of a club,
whether you are in the world or in the Kingdom you are safe. They prove by their own belief
they have never left the world, because going back to it holds no fear or emnity.

And the problem is brothers and sisters, these folk have nothing to get, because they have
been in the church for so long, and it has passed them by, they probably never will wake up
because now they believe they do not have to or even want to.

PHart · Sep 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Every person who is presently believing has eternal life. The gift is conditioned on believing (not work). You lose the life that is eternal if/when you stop believing:

"He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1:22-23 NASB)

What is it about the 'if' in the above scripture that you do not understand?

And if you think the person who does not "continue in the faith" is still saved but just won't be presented holy before Him consider this:

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)

PHart · Sep 26, 2017

Here's the truly ironic part about all this. Dcon is telling me that me for me to think that I have to continue to believe in order to stay saved is me trying to earn my salvation.....the salvation that Dcon and EG both say I can not lose!

It appears that I can fall away from the gospel and be lost, but they can't.

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

PHart said:

It is ironic I agree.
I do not understand another problem. We all trust Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins
and to bring us into the kingdom through repentance.

A spiritual event, being born again happens, which is true for all of us.
Now they say it is this simple.

So in their theology we are both saved, but deluded theologically.
Except we are both told that actually we are satanic and going to hell.

On that basis so are they, because we have come to faith on the same principles.
And if we can have lost our salvation because of our faith stance then so can they,
which denies their own belief you cannot lose your salvation.

So somehow we must not have believed on Christ and be walking in faith, when we obviously
are, and they are.

So fanatic is this need to make us so evil, we must be liars, deceivers, the most evil people
on the planet, in a big conspiracy to destroy the church, except that is impossible in their
theology, to destroy the church as it is all Gods work alone.

The truth is they are compromised believers who have come back to faith, and their theology
expresses this, but they will never admit that, because it would mean them losing their faith
again. The only way out if they come to see, dealing with their sin and emotional turmoil will
lead to real life in Christ and not this mad fight to root out legalism.

Dear Lord lift the veil of self deception from dc and eg so they can see how much you love them
and how they can bring their hurts and pain to you for healing and forgiveness, Amen.

PHart · Sep 26, 2017

TruthTalk said:

You have no lawn, but you have a lawn mower?

TruthTalk said:

Slow down, lol, and read what I actually said: "Let's get church folk thinking about not being a pain to everyone around them, first. Then we'll talk about reaching out to others in need.". See, no statement that you should not show God's love by mowing someone's lawn, lol.

You see, the church needs to stop being arrogant, self-centered, thoughtless, angry, discontented, greedy, and hateful FIRST before we reach out in helps ministries. When you have the love of God that 'does no wrong' in you, first, that is when you are equipped to then reach out to people in actual helps.

You cutting your neighbor's lawn (with his lawnmower?) is fine if that's what you want to do and that's what he needs, but let's focus on becoming kind and gentle people first. No work of helps will ever replace, or excuse, bad character. In fact, works without character is just that...works! In every negative connotation of the word.

TruthTalk said:

Yes, my false gospel that says love 'does no wrong to a neighbor' (Romans 13:10). When did 'does no wrong to a neighbor' become a false gospel? I really need to get Twitter or something to keep up with these things. I already missed the tweet that said believing is now a work of the damnable works gospel, now this.

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