Not By Works
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SIGNS OF THE TIMES
2 Timothy 3:1-5 (GWT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth will be blasphemed because of them.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] They will exploit you in their greed with deceptive words. Their condemnation, ⌊pronounced⌋ long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.
Matthew 24:3-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then Jesus replied to them:“Watch out that no one deceives you.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation {Gk. ethnos, the word we get ethnic from} will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All these events are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of My name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.
{Isn't that the nightly news on TV?}
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “So when you see the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand),
[SUP]16 [/SUP] “then those in Judea must flee to the mountains!
Matthew 24:22-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. {Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus returned invisibly and currently indwells the WatchTower Publishing House.}
2 Timothy 3:13 (GWT) [SUP]13 [/SUP] But evil people and phony preachers will go from bad to worse as they mislead people and are themselves misled.
2 Peter 2:9-15 (NCV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So the Lord knows how to save those who serve him when troubles come. He will hold evil people and punish them, while waiting for the Judgment Day.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] That punishment is especially for those who live by doing the evil things their sinful selves want and who hate authority. These false teachers are bold and do anything they want. They are not afraid to speak against the angels.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But even the angels, who are much stronger and more powerful than false teachers, do not accuse them with insults before the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But these people speak against things they do not understand. They are like animals that act without thinking, animals born to be caught and killed. And, like animals, these false teachers will be destroyed.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] They have caused many people to suffer, so they themselves will suffer. That is their pay for what they have done. They take pleasure in openly doing evil, so they are like dirty spots and stains among you. They delight in trickery while eating meals with you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Every time they look at a woman they want her, and their desire for sin is never satisfied. They lead weak people into the trap of sin, and they have taught their hearts to be greedy. God will punish them!
[SUP]15 [/SUP] These false teachers left the right road and lost their way, following the way Balaam went. Balaam was the son of Beor, who loved being paid for doing wrong.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 (GWT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth will be blasphemed because of them.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] They will exploit you in their greed with deceptive words. Their condemnation, ⌊pronounced⌋ long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.
Matthew 24:3-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then Jesus replied to them:“Watch out that no one deceives you.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation {Gk. ethnos, the word we get ethnic from} will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All these events are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of My name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.
{Isn't that the nightly news on TV?}
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “So when you see the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand),
[SUP]16 [/SUP] “then those in Judea must flee to the mountains!
Matthew 24:22-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. {Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus returned invisibly and currently indwells the WatchTower Publishing House.}
2 Timothy 3:13 (GWT) [SUP]13 [/SUP] But evil people and phony preachers will go from bad to worse as they mislead people and are themselves misled.
2 Peter 2:9-15 (NCV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So the Lord knows how to save those who serve him when troubles come. He will hold evil people and punish them, while waiting for the Judgment Day.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] That punishment is especially for those who live by doing the evil things their sinful selves want and who hate authority. These false teachers are bold and do anything they want. They are not afraid to speak against the angels.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But even the angels, who are much stronger and more powerful than false teachers, do not accuse them with insults before the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But these people speak against things they do not understand. They are like animals that act without thinking, animals born to be caught and killed. And, like animals, these false teachers will be destroyed.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] They have caused many people to suffer, so they themselves will suffer. That is their pay for what they have done. They take pleasure in openly doing evil, so they are like dirty spots and stains among you. They delight in trickery while eating meals with you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Every time they look at a woman they want her, and their desire for sin is never satisfied. They lead weak people into the trap of sin, and they have taught their hearts to be greedy. God will punish them!
[SUP]15 [/SUP] These false teachers left the right road and lost their way, following the way Balaam went. Balaam was the son of Beor, who loved being paid for doing wrong.
There were some here who thought they had made it, but they are gone.
There are people who believe they are undefiled, pure and Holy, because
by faith through repentance of known sin that is what we are as scripture
declares, which is our highest authority.
But for some their theology is higher, and scripture must bend and break
to keep them happy. Not good when the author comes calling.
But then maybe that is not on their radar as they are safe....
There are people who believe they are undefiled, pure and Holy, because
by faith through repentance of known sin that is what we are as scripture
declares, which is our highest authority.
But for some their theology is higher, and scripture must bend and break
to keep them happy. Not good when the author comes calling.
But then maybe that is not on their radar as they are safe....
P
But you say me and Jens are trying to keep ourselves saved instead of being kept saved by Christ, which you insist Christ is doing even though you say we don't believe in Christ because we're trying to save ourselves instead? That's H-Grace belief (it says even a return to unbelief can not forfeit your salvation), but didn't you say you're not H-Grace? Which only adds to the confusion because you said believers can not, and won't stop believing. Please, untwist this horrible mess of doctrine, lol!
P
Okay, so let me get this straight: I'm now in unbelief because I'm trying to keep myself saved and do not believe/trust in Christ to keep me saved because Christ never loses any believers, yet, despite that unbelief I'm still saved? That's H-Grace doctrine. You know that, don't you? And yet you are also sure a believer can't stop believing? Somewhere along the line here you're going to have to decide which of these contradicting beliefs you're going to keep and which one's you're going to discard. Until then you have a pretty messed up gospel.
P
I have a car that will run for 342 miles on a full tank of gas. According to you, it's not a car that can run for 342 miles if I am able to exit that car. The car doesn't cease being a car that will run for 342 mile car just because I can I jump out it. What happens in that case is I simply no longer possess the car that will run for 342 miles. The mileage of the car does not change, lol. Neither is it true that the life that lasts forever can not be the life that lasts forever if I am able to no longer be in that eternal life. What happens in that case is I simply no longer possess the life that lasts forever, lol.
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In truth what is being described is cognitive dissonance.
Two ideas are held which destroy each other, but the cost of doing this is too
high so it is kept separate. Everyone not walking with the Lord does this
because it is the only way to deny him and not appear guilty.
The most common thing is to hate a behaviour one does oneself.
In their world if they could see they would no longer be there, so the
blindness will continue.
Two ideas are held which destroy each other, but the cost of doing this is too
high so it is kept separate. Everyone not walking with the Lord does this
because it is the only way to deny him and not appear guilty.
The most common thing is to hate a behaviour one does oneself.
In their world if they could see they would no longer be there, so the
blindness will continue.
You have some of the most absurd and inapplicable illustrations I've ever seen. None of them ever prove a thing. Then to top that off, you also fallaciously interpret Scripture in the same way you use your invalid illustrations and arrive at similar false conclusions.
Oh, by the way, don't forget to seal your lasagna. Remember, according to you, a package of lasagna illustrates the sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit. If we don't seal it correctly when it's in the fridge, it will get moldy and have to be thrown in the trash. Same with us.
Oh, by the way, don't forget to seal your lasagna. Remember, according to you, a package of lasagna illustrates the sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit. If we don't seal it correctly when it's in the fridge, it will get moldy and have to be thrown in the trash. Same with us.
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You have some of the most absurd and inapplicable illustrations I've ever seen. None of them ever prove a thing. Then to top that off, you also fallaciously interpret Scripture in the same way you use your invalid illustrations and arrive at similar false conclusions.
Oh, by the way, don't forget to seal your lasagna. Remember, according to you, a package of lasagna illustrates the sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit. If we don't seal it correctly when it's in the fridge, it will get moldy and have to be thrown in the trash. Same with us.
Oh, by the way, don't forget to seal your lasagna. Remember, according to you, a package of lasagna illustrates the sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit. If we don't seal it correctly when it's in the fridge, it will get moldy and have to be thrown in the trash. Same with us.
There is some hope after all...........................maybe.......................
P
Oh, by the way, don't forget to seal your lasagna. Remember, according to you, a package of lasagna illustrates the sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit. If we don't seal it correctly when it's in the fridge, it will get moldy and have to be thrown in the trash. Same with us.
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P
So answer the question (if you dare): Is it impossible that the car in my illustration can be a car that will run 342 miles if it's possible to jump out of that car? Of course not, lol. But so many Christians think eternal life can not be the life that never ends if they can jump out of it. If you lose eternal life, that doesn't mean it was not eternal to begin with. It only means you no longer possess the life that will never end.
P
Yes, yes, I know.......I've lost my salvation because I don't believe and trust in Christ anymore, but instead I trust myself to stay saved. Oh wait......you say I can't lose my salvation. And I think you say I can't stop believing either..... These beliefs, they're so contradictory and confusing!
(Watch folks.....the 'judging' card is about to get played. Stick around, you'll see what I'm talking about...)
(Watch folks.....the 'judging' card is about to get played. Stick around, you'll see what I'm talking about...)
Original Poster: Phart
You may never view another batch of leftover Lasagna in the refrigerator the same ever again, lol.
Just remember every time you 'seal' the lid on a bowl of left over Lasagna that 'seal' does not mean by definition 'unable to be unsealed'. It means it is sealed until it is unsealed.
This is bad theology, a false gospel
Just remember every time you 'seal' the lid on a bowl of left over Lasagna that 'seal' does not mean by definition 'unable to be unsealed'. It means it is sealed until it is unsealed.
This is bad theology, a false gospel
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