Desensitization.

[mcubed]

Desensitization. I cannot imagine anyone calling acts like Susan Smith, Jeffery Dummier anything but evil. But I was thinking tonight about a post earlier about what is adultery, and someone said adultery is a physical act and what Y-shua said that a person who has lusted in their mind has committed adultery, but everyone lusts so lust is not adultery (I am paraphrasing). (Just an example this can go on and on)

When did we arrive that we know more than our Lord and Savior. That we decide what is sin instead of G-d? We are to work out our own salvation, yet G-d calls us to do His will and purpose. So, is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit, or is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?

 

[Ugly]

i did not see the post in question, so i'm taking a bit of a guess at this. But my guess is interpreting someones intention and tone is easy to skew online. The issue of what constitutes adultery still varies. It really wasn't until the advent of social media that the idea of cheating being something besides a physical thing. Once social media sprung up people having non-physical relationships took hold. This forced people to reconsider what constitutes cheating. And the tide has turned, for most, that cheating is not merely a physical act. Some still hold to the old perception of cheating being physical. Most of the changes in view of cheating has been the past 10 years. So it may be less of him deciding what is sin, over God, and more of them having an older view of what adultery constitutes. Doesn't mean he's dictating anything to God, but only speaking out of his own understanding of a word.
At least that's one possibility.

 

[graceNpeace]

Desensitization. I cannot imagine anyone calling acts like Susan Smith, Jeffery Dummier anything but evil. But I was thinking tonight about a post earlier about what is adultery, and someone said adultery is a physical act and what Y-shua said that a person who has lusted in their mind has committed adultery, but everyone lusts so lust is not adultery (I am paraphrasing). (Just an example this can go on and on)

When did we arrive that we know more than our Lord and Savior. That we decide what is sin instead of G-d? We are to work out our own salvation, yet G-d calls us to do His will and purpose. So, is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit, or is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?

The many sinless perfectionists on this site are full of this very deception - they also redefine what sin is and isn't to suit themselves...

 

[mcubed]

Sorry should have not used a prev post as an example... Do not want to strain at gnats.. I still ask the question... Does working out our own salvation define sin, or does that G-d works out in us His perfect will and purpose in us define our Salvation and how it is worked out?

 

[graceNpeace]

Sorry should have not used a prev post as an example... Do not want to strain at gnats.. I still ask the question... Does working out our own salvation define sin, or does that G-d works out in us His perfect will and purpose in us define our Salvation and how it is worked out?

Perhaps you should rewrite this post - I read it several times and I am unable to figure out what you are trying to say.

I cannot see a big problem with your OP though...

 

[mcubed]

Perhaps you should rewrite this post - I read it several times and I am unable to figure out what you are trying to say.

I cannot see a big problem with your OP though...

I am not smart enough to know what an OP is... but maybe I am wording it wrong...

So many times people quote the Scripture let us work out our own salvation. Yet the church is so sick with porn, adultery, unforgiveness, depression. Why because sin is so downgraded... G-d says be holy because I am holy. Yet we do not know is porn a sin or not? Y-shua said murder is anger in your heart. I am not hard He is. Do we justify sin with the twisting of Scripture because judge sin by our definitions' of it instead of Y-shua's, G-d's?

 

[graceNpeace]

I am not smart enough to know what an OP is... but maybe I am wording it wrong...

So many times people quote the Scripture let us work out our own salvation. Yet the church is so sick with porn, adultery, unforgiveness, depression. Why because sin is so downgraded... G-d says be holy because I am holy. Yet we do not know is porn a sin or not? Y-shua said murder is anger in your heart. I am not hard He is. Do we justify sin with the twisting of Scripture because judge sin by our definitions' of it instead of Y-shua's, G-d's?

Your concerns definitely have some validity!

There is nothing wrong with the text: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; Phl 2:12
If people interpret this to mean that they can behave any they like then clearly this is not the meaning of the text.
We are to work our salvation with "fear and trembling;" and that unequivocally refers to the mighty person and character of God.
Our goal is to please God and to model ourselves on the person of Jesus Christ!

Now, I would be the first to acknowledge my sinfulness (even as a believer)!
I know full well that I can and almost certainly do sin on a daily basis - and if anyone believes that disqualifies me from being a Christian then it speaks much more of them that it does of me!
However, my only goal is to follow Christ and to please God the Father.
I despise sin and sinfulness yet I cannot escape sin in this world.
I do not explain away my sin and sinfulness, I do not minimise it - I admit my sin, my faults, my weakness to God - I repent!
I repented (unto salvation) and I continue to repent (for ongoing sin and sinfulness)...

What I have written above is VERY unfashionable in Christian circles and I expect many to criticise and condemn me but I know what I am (a sinner saved by grace through faith and that alone) and I know who God is...

 

[Bladerunner]

Desensitization. I cannot imagine anyone calling acts like Susan Smith, Jeffery Dummier anything but evil. But I was thinking tonight about a post earlier about what is adultery, and someone said adultery is a physical act and what Y-shua said that a person who has lusted in their mind has committed adultery, but everyone lusts so lust is not adultery (I am paraphrasing). (Just an example this can go on and on)

When did we arrive that we know more than our Lord and Savior. That we decide what is sin instead of G-d? We are to work out our own salvation, yet G-d calls us to do His will and purpose. So, is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit, or is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?

First would like to ask what is with the G-d?

John 1:1 tells us that the Word of God is the ONLY authority we have on this earth and it is in the BIBLE. Rem. Satan is on a short leash and has to make anything but something that is spoken within the front and back cover of the Bible, different by only a small degree to win. It is not going to get any better between now and the time the Church leaves this earth. Be true to one self and simply hang in there.

 

[mcubed]

First would like to ask what is with the G-d?

John 1:1 tells us that the Word of God is the ONLY authority we have on this earth and it is in the BIBLE. Rem. Satan is on a short leash and has to make anything but something that is spoken within the front and back cover of the Bible, different by only a small degree to win. It is not going to get any better between now and the time the Church leaves this earth. Be true to one self and simply hang in there.

A question for a question...


Are you being true or should one be true to yourself/themselves or the Lord?

I type G-d because I am a Jew and we do not use the vowel. Now I can type God but that is so strange to me and do not like it personally, although I am not no more righteous than anyone else but it is how I was brought up to show Him respect.

 

[gotime]

Desensitization. I cannot imagine anyone calling acts like Susan Smith, Jeffery Dummier anything but evil. But I was thinking tonight about a post earlier about what is adultery, and someone said adultery is a physical act and what Y-shua said that a person who has lusted in their mind has committed adultery, but everyone lusts so lust is not adultery (I am paraphrasing). (Just an example this can go on and on)

When did we arrive that we know more than our Lord and Savior. That we decide what is sin instead of G-d? We are to work out our own salvation, yet G-d calls us to do His will and purpose. So, is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit, or is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?

"is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit"?

no sir, In my way of thinking this would be akin to putting ourselves as judges over God.

"is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?"

And to this I say no sir also, The text that comes to mind is this one:

Jer_13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

There is no possible way that we can make our hearts and mind fit God's ways. But He can circumcise our hearts so that we line up with him and do indeed obey him as he asks.


God has set the standard and there is no other standard acceptable, But in Christ He has given me all I need to rise to that standard by His working in us by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bladerunner]

A question for a question...


Are you being true or should one be true to yourself/themselves or the Lord?

I type G-d because I am a Jew and we do not use the vowel. Now I can type God but that is so strange to me and do not like it personally, although I am not no more righteous than anyone else but it is how I was brought up to show Him respect.

The Hebrew language did not have vowels because of our Lord Jesus. The vowels were simply left off and everything ended in a consonant. It is fine with me if you leave it off. just wondered WHY? Thank You for your reply!

Have a Blessed Evening


Blade

 

[Circumcised_Heart]

Desensitization. I cannot imagine anyone calling acts like Susan Smith, Jeffery Dummier anything but evil. But I was thinking tonight about a post earlier about what is adultery, and someone said adultery is a physical act and what Y-shua said that a person who has lusted in their mind has committed adultery, but everyone lusts so lust is not adultery (I am paraphrasing). (Just an example this can go on and on)

When did we arrive that we know more than our Lord and Savior. That we decide what is sin instead of G-d? We are to work out our own salvation, yet G-d calls us to do His will and purpose. So, is working out our Salvation our definition of sin and make G-d fit, or is it G-d’s definition of sin and we make our flesh/ hearts/ minds fit him?

I can understand some arguing that adultery is a physical act, just as others argue murder is a physical act. If we had it another way, many more couples may be divorced (for lust), and many more people would be in jail (for unrighteous anger).

Jesus' standards are still right, whatever men may say. So he who lusts is as guilty of sin as he who commits adultery, and he who is angry as he who commits murder (there is still a place for righteous anger without sin).

The Holy Spirit works in the heart of the believer, convicting him of sin, so where Paul talks about "working out our salvation", I think it means letting the Holy Spirit do His work, rather than resisting Him.

 

[notuptome]

I am not smart enough to know what an OP is... but maybe I am wording it wrong...

So many times people quote the Scripture let us work out our own salvation. Yet the church is so sick with porn, adultery, unforgiveness, depression. Why because sin is so downgraded... G-d says be holy because I am holy. Yet we do not know is porn a sin or not? Y-shua said murder is anger in your heart. I am not hard He is. Do we justify sin with the twisting of Scripture because judge sin by our definitions' of it instead of Y-shua's, G-d's?

An OP is Original Post or Poster as in authorship of the thread.

We are not to make scripture say what we want them to say. We are to make ourselves conform to what scripture says. Defilement of our bodies is a tough sin to deal with yet our bodies must be brought under the control of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is a long and at times a difficult process. Our struggles are intended to teach us of our reliance upon our Creator.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FlSnookman7]

Some things to consider...


Jesus was then a rabbi with authority to interpret scripture, this is called s'mikhah. This is very important because when He said "you have heard it said...but I say" any jewish person would know that was a lot different than a common person making those statements. Jesus would have had this authority embroidered on His robe and I think His shawl. It is important to realize how rare a thing this was as these rabbis only came along once in a generation or less.
When a jewish person or even a rabbi wanted to make a religious point he would quote one of these rabbis.

As to the verse in question Jesus was using that to show that even if a man did not physically commit adultery (or in later verses murder) just the thought alone was enough to disqualify him from Heaven. Why would Jesus say such a thing? We must remember that the jewish people had a strict set of religious laws to follow to attempt to be righteous, as sadly many professing Christians today still do. What He was trying to show those listening and those reading His Word even now was that we can never, EVER keep enough law to save ourselves. We need a savior.

The only person to ever walk the earth and keep perfect law was Jesus yet that is the requirement for righteousness, 100% perfect law. While no human could ever do that Jesus did and those of us who are saved keep perfect law by being hidden in Jesus. He took on our sin and gave us His righteousness. He was the Worthy Lamb needed to make a perfect sacrifice that dealt with the world's sin ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Notice how john the baptist referred to Jesus when he saw Him coming to be baptized...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When we say we must do this or that to gain or maintain salvation or righteousness what we are really doing is saying Jesus did not do enough and He needs our help. This would be laughable if it were not so tragic. What it does is keep people from realizing who they really are in Christ, it keeps them in bondage to any institution that claims that they are the way to righteousness and it keeps one from growing spiritually.

Trust in Jesus, as He said..."it is finished." Shalom.

 

[Ugly]

Working out ones salvation is a journey, and a personal one between the individual and God. A problem many Christians fsce (myself included) is we only see a person in the moment we are in. Not where they came from. And we can't see where they are going. Sometimes people may need to go through a belief and God lead them out, in His time, so that that person will see, first hand, how wrong it is. And if they hadn't may always cling to the idea.
Truth is none of us know where others are in their growth and journey. To us where they are at may be bad, but for God, who has the big picture, it may be where that person Needs to be.
That, to me, would be working out ones salvation.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Philippians 2:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


I think we need to read these two verses together. Once we separate work out your own salvation from God which worketh within you we misconstrue the intent of the instruction.


Since it is God Who works within the born again one, the response of the born again one should be to take what God is working within to have it evidenced without.

I love this statement made by Roger (bold mine):

Defilement of our bodies is a tough sin to deal with yet our bodies must be brought under the control of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is a long and at times a difficult process. Our struggles are intended to teach us of our reliance upon our Creator.

Every circumstance in our life should be faced in reliance upon God. Turn our hearts to Him in every situation. He is with us in our joyous times ... He is with us in our times of grief / struggling.

 

[hornetguy]

I can understand some arguing that adultery is a physical act, just as others argue murder is a physical act. If we had it another way, many more couples may be divorced (for lust), and many more people would be in jail (for unrighteous anger).

Jesus' standards are still right, whatever men may say. So he who lusts is as guilty of sin as he who commits adultery, and he who is angry as he who commits murder (there is still a place for righteous anger without sin).

The Holy Spirit works in the heart of the believer, convicting him of sin, so where Paul talks about "working out our salvation", I think it means letting the Holy Spirit do His work, rather than resisting Him.

From Jesus, himself....

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; [SUP]28 [/SUP]but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Adultery is not just a physical act. Neither is murder. At least when looking for a definition of "sin".

Legally, yes... it must be the physical act. Spiritually, no.

 

[hornetguy]

Jesus was then a rabbi with authority to interpret scripture, this is called s'mikhah.

Out of curiosity, how do we know that? I would assume the Jewish leaders would have to bestow that designation on him?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sorry should have not used a prev post as an example... Do not want to strain at gnats.. I still ask the question... Does working out our own salvation define sin, or does that G-d works out in us His perfect will and purpose in us define our Salvation and how it is worked out?

It seems as though you are asking whether we are personally involved in our sanctification, even though the Holy Spirit is within us. And the answer is a definite YES. It is we who are required to offer ourselves a living sacrifice (Rom 12:1-2) and it is we who are required to not be conformed to this world. Not sure how any Christian can imagine that we simply stand by passively. Yes it is God who works in us, but it is we who work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Just so that there is no misunderstanding, there are three tenses to salvation -- we have been saved (from the penalty of sin), we are being saved (from the power of sin), and we shall be saved (from the presence of sin). So saints must deal with sin within themselves by denying the flesh and walking in the Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus was then a rabbi with authority to interpret scripture...

Well the Jewish rabbis of His day certainly did not acknowledge this, and mocked and derided Christ as one who had "no learning" in their rabbinic schools. However, His disciples acknowledge Him as Rabbi, and addressed Him as such. But they also saw Him as much more than a mere rabbi. They believed that He was indeed the Son of God.