Not By Works

[PennEd]

Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....

Your premise is completely flawed. Therefore your conclusions, and the box you try and put people in, are fatally flawed as well.

When a person is born again, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, He will purify the believer. Molding, teaching, instructing him on how to live, and what changes he needs to make to be a productive, fruitful Christian. Sometimes, a believer resists the promptings and corrections of the Holy Spirit, and lives in an ungodly manner. If he continues in this state, his flesh will be handed over to satan. Several times Paul mentions those who are delivered to satan. Sometimes the person turns from his ungodliness and is restored. Sometimes this may result in the physical death of the individual. It does NOT mean they lost Salvation.

When you set up a false narrative, everything that follows is false. Please recognize this.

 

[joefizz]

It's funny how you think 'believing' is a work that can not justify.

"4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:4-5 NASB)

Where are you getting in the above passage that 'believing' is a work that is credited as a wage?????? (And note, believing' is in the present tense).

Where did this crazy gospel come from that says believing is a work of the damnable works gospel that can not justify?

I'm thinking of a fog now...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Ever notice how sometimes people "don't make sense" yet somehow in their mind they "do make sense".

Is that not us all...We all can speak of something, but not everyone understands what we mean, yet some understands us and some do not...xox...

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't condemn the belief that a true believer can not stop believing. I've made it clear over and over that I respect the argument, but simply don't agree with it. Now for some of the other Calvinist nonsense.....

Yes, I know, all of your beliefs are heterodox, and you're just making this more clear as time goes on.

You'd hardly fare well in debate with Calvinists as they preach the pure Gospel. You'd refute exactly nothing we preach.

The point is you're maintaining your salvation which will be lost in the end. His salvation can never be lost.

 

[TruthTalk]

Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....

You are trivializing something so amazing as our heavenly birth, which is God's miracle to us. He did not make us born from above just so we could be thrown away in the trash like some old moldy lasagna. Its time for you to set up your lasagna workshop and stop complaining.

Romans5:20
"The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more."

Romans6:1,2
1) What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2) By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?

​

 

[preacher4truth]

Where are you getting in the above passage that 'believing' is a work that is credited as a wage??????

LOL!!!!!! Who said I got it from the above passage?

I got it from YOU.

If you don't keep believing, you will lose your salvation. This teaching comes directly from you, thus you maintain your salvation, as in if you don't keep believing you go to hell.

That is the false gospel of you.

 

[joefizz]

Is that not us all...We all can speak of something, but not everyone understands what we mean, yet some understands us and some do not...xox...

True yet it makes more sense for both parties to "Understand"'each other and not "go against" themselves when discussing,it just stands to reason,I realize that is what preacher previously was pointing out.

 

[TruthTalk]

Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....

Phart, when you die and Jesus ask's you; Pfart why should I let you into my Kingdom, what are you going to say. Well because of all of my good works that I performed for you to keep myself saved plus I make a great lasagna dish, how foolish. You cannot keep yourself saved and you are diminishing the Power of God to accomplish in you what He wills. But keep on cooking your Lasagna for God
and maybe He will wash away some of your sins.

 

[VCO]

No way, the bible is clear about that...I am early in the word, been walking with our Lord nearly two years, and I know that no way can we walk the way we want to, that is living in the flesh, that is against God...I learned something yesterday, the opposite to Gods Righteousness is lawlessness, so if we walk in our own way then we are rebelling against God, to walk in the Holy Spirit we are abiding to what God calls us to do, not in our own will but His, but yes people can as we all do sometimes walk in the flesh, I am learning that our walk is a journey through valleys and mountains, and it is through the trials that are faith really comes in to action, be a doer of the word and not a hearer comes to mind, this is what happened to me the other night, my faith was tested when I was rushed to hospital under blue lights, my flesh screamed fear, but my faith that I put in Christ calmed me, if I layed back and let fear grip me, Ii would of put Jesus second...Let us all be a doer and not a hearer...xox...

Something to Encourage You, and I will be praying for you.

[video=youtube;RCTl4tUYIAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCTl4tUYIAg[/video]

 

[joefizz]

Phart, when you die and Jesus ask's you; Pfart why should I let you into my Kingdom, what are you going to say. Well because of all of my good works that I performed for you to keep myself saved plus I make a great lasagna dish, how foolish. You cannot keep yourself saved and you are diminishing the Power of God to accomplish in you what He wills. But keep on cooking your Lasagna for God
and maybe He will wash away some of your sins.

That poor lasagna being pounced upon such gluttony...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Something to Encourage You, and I will be praying for you.

[video=youtube;RCTl4tUYIAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCTl4tUYIAg[/video]

Hi VCO...I have never heard that song before, it is so beautiful, just makes me want to thank God over and over...Oh thank You Almighty God that You O Lord never change, Your ways do not shift from side to side like we do Lord in times when we are weak...Thank You God for never leaving us, never forgetting us Lord when we fall down, never tut tutting at as Lord, for giving us drink Lord when we are in the valleys Lord, O what a wonderful GOD we serve...xox...This song is just beautiful...xox...

 

[Ariel82]

Is that not us all...We all can speak of something, but not everyone understands what we mean, yet some understands us and some do not...xox...

It's been a while since I checked on this site but from reading the last page it still seems that folks are talking last one another..

One accuses the other of teaching licentiousness.

While the other accuses them of mental assent and easy believism without any heart change or true repentance.

Neither is the gospel or what the other person believes but why bother talking about God's truth when you can make lasagna and toss it into someone's face?

True salvation is when Jesus not only saves us from the consequences of sin (future only) but also saves us from desiring sin and turns us towards God and places hearts in us that seek His ways (present condition).

True salvation is not only forgiveness of our sins but our forgiveness of others offenses against us.

True salvation is not in word only but also in the way we walk, talk and live.

True salvation is found in Jesus alone and reflected in the light God places in our hearts and allows us to show to the world.

Anyway, just wanted to send some love and a prayer for my friends here.

I l is haters are gonna hate and read some "evil" purpose, but maybe one day God will take their heart of stone and give them freshly hearts that overflow with His love and grace?

One can only hope and pray.

God bless and keep you all.

Remember to take a moment today to thank God for all His blessings, if you haven't already done it.

It's good for the heart and soul,

 

[Ariel82]

Something to Encourage You, and I will be praying for you.

[video=youtube;RCTl4tUYIAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCTl4tUYIAg[/video]

Lovely song!

 

[Ariel82]

A true believer has a heart changed to want to seek God's way.

If they have a heart that would seek their way and their lust,

then they are either

1. Not a true believer

or 2. Double minded adulterer who is unstable and not very "true" and makes one question if they truly believe in the TRUE gospel or if they believe a lie?

 

[Desertsrose]

HI ARIEL!

 

[VCO]

Hi VCO...I have never heard that song before, it is so beautiful, just makes me want to thank God over and over...Oh thank You Almighty God that You O Lord never change, Your ways do not shift from side to side like we do Lord in times when we are weak...Thank You God for never leaving us, never forgetting us Lord when we fall down, never tut tutting at as Lord, for giving us drink Lord when we are in the valleys Lord, O what a wonderful GOD we serve...xox...This song is just beautiful...xox...

You are welcome, but the Holy Spirit gets all the credit, HE put it on my heart to share that old song with you. I knew you needed to hear it. Here it is with the lyrics. I needed to hear it again too, it has been years since I let that song bless my heart:


[video=youtube;HUBY9TxnAMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBY9TxnAMw[/video]

 

[TruthTalk]

It's been a while since I checked on this site but from reading the last page it still seems that folks are talking last one another..

One accuses the other of teaching licentiousness.

While the other accuses them of mental assent and easy believism without any heart change or true repentance.

Neither is the gospel or what the other person believes but why bother talking about God's truth when you can make lasagna and toss it into someone's face?

True salvation is when Jesus not only saves us from the consequences of sin (future only) but also saves us from desiring sin and turns us towards God and places hearts in us that seek His ways (present condition).

True salvation is not only forgiveness of our sins but our forgiveness of others offenses against us.

True salvation is not in word only but also in the way we walk, talk and live.

True salvation is found in Jesus alone and reflected in the light God places in our hearts and allows us to show to the world.

Anyway, just wanted to send some love and a prayer for my friends here.

I l is haters are gonna hate and read some "evil" purpose, but maybe one day God will take their heart of stone and give them freshly hearts that overflow with His love and grace?

One can only hope and pray.

God bless and keep you all.

Remember to take a moment today to thank God for all His blessings, if you haven't already done it.

It's good for the heart and soul,

Hi Ariel and welcome back, to my knowledge no one is breaking Chrstianchat rules here. Yes it gets heated and vibrant at times, and no one is throwing lasagna in someones face here. Lasagna in the refrigerator was used as an example of how someone can lose their salvation if the storage seal was broken, and the only thing left to do is to toss it in the trash.

When you came back some of these heated discussions have been going on for weeks and weeks. A couple of weeks ago there were 2 people who went to far with their attacks on people here and they were banned. I understand that you may not like the tone or some comments that were made,
but aside from the people who were banned everyone still maintains respect for each
individual here, and their freedom to discuss the bible.

The debate about Grace plus nothing folks, verses the, Grace plus works folks, has been going on since the first century Church. There is a defensive posture that the Grace and Works people take up because they want to defend their doctrines, but their are no "haters" here as you imply in your post. The thread is titled "Not By Works" and the people on the other side of the argument are trying to disprove this doctrine, from days of old.

Sticky: When you have concerns about vibrant and heated discussions, please read this.

 

[Ariel82]

Yep...,totally didn't get what I was saying.

1. I have no problems with debate, I just dislike when others falsely represent what someone believes and sticks to their false portrayal even after it has been shown to be false. (not saying you specifically are doing this, but it becomes evident who actually reads and listen and who is just hear to preach at folks)

2. The lasagna comment was sarcasm and was probably lost in translation.

3. I have been around the forums a lot and know the mods are good about banning troll, so I don't know why you feel moved to lecture me.

As for this comment:

". Lasagna in the refrigerator was used as an example of how someone can lose their salvation if the storage seal was broken, and the only thing left to do is to toss it in the trash."

It's about as useful as throwing lasagna on someone's face because it doesn't remotely resemble what anyone in the thread believes.

We are,t lasagna. We are God's beloved children.

If we are disobedient He corrects us, if we obey we have joy in Him. That doesn't mean we don't have trials. It means God will walk with us and sometimes carry us through the valley.

I personally believe that if someone truly is fearful and think they can lose their salvation we should stop and pray.

Because perhaps they can, perhaps they never truly had the Gospel in the first place.

If we were someone who pretends they are Christian and blantantly and willfully sins, but says they are saved because they verbally accepted Jesus for one second one day long long ago..,then we should rebuke them and tell them that they too have believed in a lie.

If we see someone who truly loves God and seems to do his will but isn't perfect and gets discouraged, then we should encourage them that God's acceptance is not based upon performance but grace.

Discerning which type of person we encounter and how to respond is done through prayer and the guidance of the Holy spirit.

Anyway I just wanted to see what the discussion was about.

The haters comments was aimed at those who will find any reasons to attack me cuz they hold a grudge and just don't like me much.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yep...,totally didn't get what I was saying.

1. I have no problems with debate, I just dislike when others falsely represent what someone believes and sticks to their false portrayal even after it has been shown to be false. (not saying you specifically are doing this, but it becomes evident who actually reads and listen and who is just hear to preach at folks)

2. The lasagna comment was sarcasm and was probably lost in translation.

3. I have been around the forums a lot and know the mods are good about banning troll, so I don't know why you feel moved to lecture me.

As for this comment:

". Lasagna in the refrigerator was used as an example of how someone can lose their salvation if the storage seal was broken, and the only thing left to do is to toss it in the trash."

It's about as useful as throwing lasagna on someone's face because it doesn't remotely resemble what anyone in the thread believes.

We are,t lasagna. We are God's beloved children.

If we are disobedient He corrects us, if we obey we have joy in Him. That doesn't mean we don't have trials. It means God will walk with us and sometimes carry us through the valley.

I personally believe that if someone truly is fearful and think they can lose their salvation we should stop and pray.

Because perhaps they can, perhaps they never truly had the Gospel in the first place.

If we were someone who pretends they are Christian and blantantly and willfully sins, but says they are saved because they verbally accepted Jesus for one second one day long long ago..,then we should rebuke them and tell them that they too have believed in a lie.

If we see someone who truly loves God and seems to do his will but isn't perfect and gets discouraged, then we should encourage them that God's acceptance is not based upon performance but grace.

Discerning which type of person we encounter and how to respond is done through prayer and the guidance of the Holy spirit.

Anyway I just wanted to see what the discussion was about.

The haters comments was aimed at those who will find any reasons to attack me cuz they hold a grudge and just don't like me much.

THERE SHE IS

i missed you ariel

i hope you have been well in the Lord



may God bless you and your family

 

[TruthTalk]

Yep...,totally didn't get what I was saying.

1. I have no problems with debate, I just dislike when others falsely represent what someone believes and sticks to their false portrayal even after it has been shown to be false. (not saying you specifically are doing this, but it becomes evident who actually reads and listen and who is just hear to preach at folks)

2. The lasagna comment was sarcasm and was probably lost in translation.

3. I have been around the forums a lot and know the mods are good about banning troll, so I don't know why you feel moved to lecture me.

As for this comment:

". Lasagna in the refrigerator was used as an example of how someone can lose their salvation if the storage seal was broken, and the only thing left to do is to toss it in the trash."

It's about as useful as throwing lasagna on someone's face because it doesn't remotely resemble what anyone in the thread believes.

We are,t lasagna. We are God's beloved children.

If we are disobedient He corrects us, if we obey we have joy in Him. That doesn't mean we don't have trials. It means God will walk with us and sometimes carry us through the valley.

I personally believe that if someone truly is fearful and think they can lose their salvation we should stop and pray.

Because perhaps they can, perhaps they never truly had the Gospel in the first place.

If we were someone who pretends they are Christian and blantantly and willfully sins, but says they are saved because they verbally accepted Jesus for one second one day long long ago..,then we should rebuke them and tell them that they too have believed in a lie.

If we see someone who truly loves God and seems to do his will but isn't perfect and gets discouraged, then we should encourage them that God's acceptance is not based upon performance but grace.

Discerning which type of person we encounter and how to respond is done through prayer and the guidance of the Holy spirit.

Anyway I just wanted to see what the discussion was about.

Not lecturing just trying to catch you up on this thread. I did not use the lasagna analogy someone else did. I see your join date and 217 rep power. I was here also for a long time but had to take a leave of absence which was explain to the folks here.

Quote:
"The haters comments was aimed at those who will find any reasons to attack me cuz they hold a grudge and just don't like me much."

I have no idea of anyone that hates you or is holding a grudge; as a matter of fact the opposite is true, I ask you if we could be friends, remember? So why I am being criticised by you when all I have wanted is to be your friend, this is very confusing to me. Go in peace and God bless you.