A real question about Gospel of John

[IamWhoIam]

In my opinion verse 20 got placed alittle to far ahead, and verse 21-22 goes as I posted in a earlier post.

Jh 12:12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem.
Jh 12:20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival.
Jh 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

wasn't palm tree branches but olive tree branches.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Though palm branches were used as well, people started taking branches from a few different types of trees.
cypress, Palm, olive, pretty much whatever they could grab.

 

[Depleted]

I did the research. And, as was expected, no one really knows for sure who those Greeks were.

Adam Clarke gave the shortened-condensed version.

John 12:20


Certain Greeks - There are three opinions concerning these:
1. That they were proselytes of the gate or covenant, who came up to worship the true God at this feast.
2. That they were real Jews, who lived in Grecian provinces, and spoke the Greek language.
3. That they were mere Gentiles, who never knew the true God: and hearing of the fame of the temple, or the miracles of our Lord, came to offer sacrifices to Jehovah, and to worship him according to the manner of the people of that land. This was not an unfrequent case: many of the Gentiles, Romans, and others, were in the habit of sending sacrifices to the temple at Jerusalem. Of these opinions the reader may choose; but the first seems best founded.

Now he and Albert Barnes seem to disagree on why Phillip brought it to Andrew's attention, but I can easily see myself grabbing one of my buds as I take people to see Jesus, so I also like Clarke's views on that verse too.

Andrew and Philip tell Jesus - How pleasing to God is this union, when the ministers of his Gospel agree and unite together to bring souls to Christ. But where self-love prevails, and the honor that comes from God is not sought, this union never exists. Bigotry often ruins every generous sentiment among the different denominations of the people of God.

But then I like Barne's interpretation of verse 22 -- at least the part where "Tell Jesus" comes into play.

Telleth Andrew - Why he did not at once tell Jesus is not known. Possibly he was doubtful whether Jesus would wish to converse with Gentiles, and chose to consult with Andrew about it.


Tell Jesus - Whether the Greeks were with them cannot be determined. From the following discourse if would seem probable that they were, or at least that Jesus admitted them to his presence and delivered the discourse to them.

I really do get a kick on how much Jesus' words in the Gospel of John do the same thing to the people he's talking to, as often happens when I'm praying. I often expect God's answer to be A, B, or C, but every time he picks 53, T7, or *! These answers are never even in my radar for what answers he will give, and yet, after thinking it over, it comes down to the prefect answer to a poorly asked question.

No idea what they said when they met him, but I am sure they weren't expecting this as the answer.

Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:27 "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
Joh 12:29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."


AND, no matter what they asked, it was the perfect answer. An answer that lasts infinite.

 

[Depleted]

Obviously you have never heard of Alexander or the empire he carved out of the Middle East as far as present-day India.
Alexander was Greek....

The reason why the NT is written in a Greek dialect was because it was such widely spoken language all across the Mediterranean, and beyond.
The language was there because because the Greeks had been there.
The Roman Empire to a large degree just followed Alexander (it was only later conquests into the northern areas of Europe that broke this pattern.

So, in fact, it was common for Jews to refer to Gentiles as Greeks - as a catch-all term - because they all spoke Greek (not necessarily as their home language) and had absorbed Greek customs, and this pattern is also reflected from time-to-time in the Scriptural record of the New Testament.

Obviously, you think highly of your education and poorly of mine.

If you really wanted me to learn, you could have just given that information without the snark. But it really wasn't about answering my questions, was it? It was to boast of your great learning.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Obviously you have never heard of Alexander or the empire he carved out of the Middle East as far as present-day India.
Alexander was Greek....

The reason why the NT is written in a Greek dialect was because it was such widely spoken language all across the Mediterranean, and beyond.
The language was there because because the Greeks had been there.
The Roman Empire to a large degree just followed Alexander (it was only later conquests into the northern areas of Europe that broke this pattern.

So, in fact, it was common for Jews to refer to Gentiles as Greeks - as a catch-all term - because they all spoke Greek (not necessarily as their home language) and had absorbed Greek customs, and this pattern is also reflected from time-to-time in the Scriptural record of the New Testament.

Well the New Testament was translated from another language that Jesus and His deciples spoke, mainly the common Jew spoke Aramiac they knew some Hebrew, Hebrew was used in the synagogues mainly by the elders teachers etc. they read and spoke the old language of the Torah written in Hebrew.

jesus was quite Educated, Jesus spoke many languages, some of them are, Hebrew, Aramiac, Greek, Latin.

 

[J7]

Could also have been Northern Kingdom Israelites:

John 7
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?


or a combination of 1,2,3, and 4

e.g. Israelite proselytes

 

[garee]

The Jews who walked by sight after the natural course of this world in respect to the three avenues spoken of in 1 John. required a sign before they believed.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

They were must likely concerned if Lazarus was the Christ.. They could not decide who was the greatest but were looking outward for someone to fill those shoes.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Lazarus being woken up from what is called dead asleep in respect to the wake-up call was used in that parable to simulate the last trump... he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, wake up come forth that parable was being is used as a shadow to point to the second and final resurrection. Just as Elijah and Enoch were used to represent the first resurrection.

Because they sought after a signs and wonders gospel and did not walk by faith, in seeing what they did see he used that in a parable in respect to the corn. In other words they would not see the supernatural by looking at that seed used to represent the spiritual seed Christ, before it dies.

Kings or prophet’s coming in on donkey is a reflection of a ceremonial law . This again shows we are not to walk by sight because God is not served by human hands as that seen .

The requirements of the offspring of a donkey an unclean animal are used to represent a unbeliever or those not converted as born again . They were either to break its neck indicating , cut off from the promises a lamb represented by Christ must be sacrificed.

Exo 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

This shows us a person must be born again .Its the second birth they we are to concern ourselves with. It was the second death the Son of man represented .

Because in the garden God who has no form did not want his new creation to obey the voice of another .The father of lies did put his words on its lips. ( Whatever that creature was before the fall... that glory died )

In order to make it clear he is not to be sought after according to that which is seen again like the kernel of corn .
The Holy Spirit put his words on the lips of a Balaam’s donkey to show he can use a unbeliever to accomplish his good purposes. that by a work of His faith restrained the madness of that fable prophet.

 

[J7]

And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast

'them' being the Pharisees. Personally I am fairly sure they were proselytized Greeks. I doubt they were random Gentiles or Jews.

What do you prefer Dp?

I did the research. And, as was expected, no one really knows for sure who those Greeks were.

Adam Clarke gave the shortened-condensed version.



Now he and Albert Barnes seem to disagree on why Phillip brought it to Andrew's attention, but I can easily see myself grabbing one of my buds as I take people to see Jesus, so I also like Clarke's views on that verse too.



But then I like Barne's interpretation of verse 22 -- at least the part where "Tell Jesus" comes into play.



I really do get a kick on how much Jesus' words in the Gospel of John do the same thing to the people he's talking to, as often happens when I'm praying. I often expect God's answer to be A, B, or C, but every time he picks 53, T7, or *! These answers are never even in my radar for what answers he will give, and yet, after thinking it over, it comes down to the prefect answer to a poorly asked question.

No idea what they said when they met him, but I am sure they weren't expecting this as the answer.

Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:27 "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
Joh 12:29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."


AND, no matter what they asked, it was the perfect answer. An answer that lasts infinite.

 

[J7]

Thanks for bringing out this Scripture DP. The word for Jesus 'answered' is apokrinomai, which means begins to speak, so I think it means he spoke to the Certain Greeks, which is certainly not evident from the KJV. I think this relates to what Paul says in Corinthians, that Christ Glorified (crucified) was foolishness to the wisdom of the Greeks. Therefore I think this why Jesus explains it to the Greeks.

 

[graceNpeace]

Well the New Testament was translated from another language that Jesus and His deciples spoke, mainly the common Jew spoke Aramiac they knew some Hebrew, Hebrew was used in the synagogues mainly by the elders teachers etc. they read and spoke the old language of the Torah written in Hebrew.

jesus was quite Educated, Jesus spoke many languages, some of them are, Hebrew, Aramiac, Greek, Latin.

If you are trying to say that the NT was written in Hebrew or Aramaic first and then subsequently translated into Koine Greek then you are quite mistaken.

It is inconceivable, given the amount of manuscript evidence as well as the writings of the early church fathers (the generation immediately following the Apostles), that if there was ever a Hebrew/Aramaic version of any part of the NT that there would not be direct evidence in the form of a manuscript or a direct quotation from at least one of the early church fathers - but there are none, nix, nada...

Bottom line: there is exactly zero evidence for your contention!

 

[oldethennew]

it's 'greek' to me!, but alas, 'Jesus Word' is enough for us, understood, not by language,
but by The Holy Spirit...yes, of course 'words' have different meanings in different languages,
but the core-Biblical Languages are so important for understandings,..

 

[IamWhoIam]

If you are trying to say that the NT was written in Hebrew or Aramaic first and then subsequently translated into Koine Greek then you are quite mistaken.

It is inconceivable, given the amount of manuscript evidence as well as the writings of the early church fathers (the generation immediately following the Apostles), that if there was ever a Hebrew/Aramaic version of any part of the NT that there would not be direct evidence in the form of a manuscript or a direct quotation from at least one of the early church fathers - but there are none, nix, nada...

Bottom line: there is exactly zero evidence for your contention!

over 10,000 manuscripts are in various ancient languages including Syriac, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian, mainly written in papyrus.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Side note, Lazarus died in the month of Tevet, early January, around three months before Jesus died on the cross.

 

[Deacon_D]

The reason Jesus was well educated is that he was the Son of God. He didn’t speak several languages, He spoke all languages.

 

[IamWhoIam]

The reason Jesus was well educated is that he was the Son of God. He didn’t speak several languages, He spoke all languages.

did He speak English?

 

[Deacon_D]

Does He talk to you?

 

[IamWhoIam]

Does He talk to you?

Ahh, now we are getting somewhere,

so your statement that Jesus (was educated) and (was the Son of God) is really not the correct way in saying that now is it?

 

[Deacon_D]

I love a good debate. I’m ure of my ubject before I open my mouth. Lol.

 

[Deacon_D]

Thanks. I will remember that.

 

[Deacon_D]

yes, actually it is. Jesus was home schooled by His Father in Heaven because He (Jesus) was God’s Son.