We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Some thing to ponder

let say there are 4 man sleep in a room. The room next to them is oN fire, the wind go to their direction, AS a loving person do we wake 1 of them and let the other 3 left burn? Why we only elect 1

loving person must wake them all, and up to them If they believe or not. It may only one believe and the other 3 not. What can we do. But deliberately only elect to wake one is not loving attitude.

God is love. To me this doctrine of predestination implicitly accuse God is cruel. This doctrine not state explicitly God is cruel, but implicitly, to my knowledge this doctrine from catholic monk st Agustin
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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I think we cause ourselves problems when we try and understand that which we can not comprehend. Predestination is biblical yet as linear beings we can never hope to wrap our minds around it and understand it fully. When we as humans come across something we can not fully comprehend we tend to put it into a box we can fathom by creating doctrines around whatever that idea is. This of course leads to problems because the rules of that doctrine will never fully encompass the original idea. In Christianity we see this with many ideas but predestination/free will, osas and origin of sin seem to get the most time spent on them here.

If we would be more ready to accept that there are things we just have to trust God for until we get the answer at some later date it would cause there to be less confusion in our lives. That said any discussion that causes us to think more about God can only be a good thing. We should remember that we are all one body in Christ when we have these discussions and try and treat each other in a civil manner. We might also consider that, as truly unimaginable as it may seem to some of us, we may not be 100% correct 100% of the time. When we refuse to even acknowledge the possibility we may be mistaken it is then we truly cease to learn.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Some thing to ponder

let say there are 4 man sleep in a room. The room next to them is oN fire, the wind go to their direction, AS a loving person do we wake 1 of them and let the other 3 left burn? Why we only elect 1

loving person must wake them all, and up to them If they believe or not. It may only one believe and the other 3 not. What can we do. But deliberately only elect to wake one is not loving attitude.

God is love. To me this doctrine of predestination implicitly accuse God is cruel. This doctrine not state explicitly God is cruel, but implicitly, to my knowledge this doctrine from catholic monk st Agustin
Your examples are too primitive, too emotional and too human-centered. The Universe with all its dimensions full of living creatures is much more complex thing.

Only God knows why this or that must be in so or so.

You do not care about bacterias beign killed by your movement. If you choose several of them to become your sons for some purpose, its enough.

And remember that we are very low, physical life, like a dust, to higher beings.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Your examples are too primitive, too emotional and too human-centered. The Universe with all its dimensions full of living creatures is much more complex thing.

Only God knows why this or that must be in so or so.

You do not care about bacterias beign killed by your movement. If you choose several of them to become your sons for some purpose, its enough.

And remember that we are very low, physical life, like a dust, to higher beings.
at least God tell us that He love the world and do not want any body perish. That information is simple enough for human to understand. We may not know everything but we know simple thing that salvation is for whosoever believe.

We know that God want to save every body and love every body, why catholic monk create prediestination doctrine that we can see clearly implicitly accuse God is cruel?

we don't understand everything but we believe God is love, not cruel. To me If any body say God is cruel, whether explicitly or implicitly, I refuse to believe, I rather believe the bible that say God is love.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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We know that God want to save every body and love every body, why catholic monk create prediestination doctrine that we can see clearly implicitly accuse God is cruel?
Which catholic monk, Paul? :)

Eph 1:5
"He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."

Eph 1:11
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

-----

Or Peter?

Acts 4:28
"To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."

1Peter 2:8
"They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Which catholic monk, Paul? :)

Eph 1:5
"He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."

Eph 1:11
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

-----

Or Peter?

Acts 4:28
"To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."

1Peter 2:8
"They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for."
this verse is in general. First when God create Adam and eve, He predestine them to reside in the beautiful Garden of Eden.
than They not obey to the Lord and the Lord expel them out of the Garden.

Than the Lord plan or predestine whosoever believe Will save. It state in John 3:16,

So His pleasure is to predestine whosoever believe to heaven.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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this verse is in general. First when God create Adam and eve, He predestine them to reside in the beautiful Garden of Eden.
than They not obey to the Lord and the Lord expel them out of the Garden.

Than the Lord plan or predestine whosoever believe Will save. It state in John 3:16,

So His pleasure is to predestine whosoever believe to heaven.
Well, you have a problem - some are predestined for adoption and some for disobeying the message.

So it is not general (like all are predestined for adoption), but different plans for different group of people.


Eph 1:5
"He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."

1Peter 2:8
"They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for."

Which is summarized in Romans:

"One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"

R 9
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Well, you have a problem - some are predestined for adoption and some for disobeying the message.

So it is not general (like all are predestined for adoption), but different plans for different group of people.


Eph 1:5
"He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."

1Peter 2:8
"They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for."

Which is summarized in Romans:

"One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"

R 9
than you have a problem that God is love.

loving God predestine to put Adam and his offspring to heaven, but they disobeye God

then God predestine the wicked to hell.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
than you have a problem that God is love.

loving God predestine to put Adam and his offspring to heaven, but they disobeye God

then God predestine the wicked to hell.
Have you noticed that your theories are not based in the Bible? Your reaction to my several verses is just your opinion.

Well, and J 3:16 that you use as answer to anything :)

I do not have any problem with loving God. Actually, His love is why I am saved. I will not ignore broader picture revealed in the Bible, though.

While your mantra is "we have free will", its never in the Bible. Bible says "according to His will".
 
Apr 15, 2017
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If we do not have free will to choose our salvation.

All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Our works cannot save us.

There is no one that does good,no,not one.

God is no respecter of persons.

The Bible says what makes you to differ from another person.

Jesus said that all people who does the will of God,the same is His mother,brethren,and sisters,and all who hear the word of God,and does it,is as blessed as Mary.

God put all people on the same level as each other,and all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

So why would God choose in the beginning who would be saved,and not saved,when all people are on the same level,and in the same boat.

God is not evil.To say that God did not choose some people that had no choice,would say that God condemns people that did nothing wrong,and if they do not have a choice then why would they be punished.

God's kingdom is love.To say that God chooses who will be saved would say that God's kingdom is not love,because they have no choice but to love Him.

If God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,without their input,why did God create mankind to dwell on earth,and put up with all the problems,and chaos,and hurt,and suffering,when He could of created them to be directly with Him,and bypass creation of the earth,for the result,and reality,would of been the same.

For is we do not have a choice,then the ones that are saved,are saved,and the ones that are not saved,are not saved,and they can do nothing about it,so why create the earth,and have all this suffering that goes on,when God could of bypassed the earth,and it would be the same result,and reality anyway,for they do not have a choice anyway,for they will choose,or not choose,according as God willed,and have no input in their salvation.

The Bible says many are called,but few are chosen,so God does the calling,and choosing on earth.

Not many noble,not many mighty,not many wise after the flesh,are called.

We did not choose God,He chose us.

God knows the heart condition,and those with the right heart condition He will work with them to get them to the truth,and without God intervening in their life they would of not gotten to the door of truth,for no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Spirit.

But when they get to the door of truth it is up to them to open the door,for God's kingdom is love,but God gets the glory,and chose us for without His intervention in our life we would of never gotten to the door of truth.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

How did God choose who will be saved,and not saved,when He wants everybody to be saved,and said anybody can have that salvation.

Those scriptures testify that God gave us a choice in our salvation,for He wants all people to be saved,and Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world,which means everybody can see the light of Jesus and be saved,which the Spirit and bride say,anybody can have that salvation.

I do not understand how some people interpret scriptures,for God says one thing that is plain to see,and they say it is not so.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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236
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Some thing to ponder

let say there are 4 man sleep in a room. The room next to them is oN fire, the wind go to their direction, AS a loving person do we wake 1 of them and let the other 3 left burn? Why we only elect 1

loving person must wake them all, and up to them If they believe or not. It may only one believe and the other 3 not. What can we do. But deliberately only elect to wake one is not loving attitude.

God is love. To me this doctrine of predestination implicitly accuse God is cruel. This doctrine not state explicitly God is cruel, but implicitly, to my knowledge this doctrine from catholic monk st Agustin
Bad analogy. Ppl aren't asleep but nekros, spiritually dead corpses. Can't wake up corpses. Corpse need brought to life. Only God can, as He quickens whoever(there's that pesky little word again Bro) He will.[John 5:21]
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Have you noticed that your theories are not based in the Bible? Your reaction to my several verses is just your opinion.

Well, and J 3:16 that you use as answer to anything :)

I do not have any problem with loving God. Actually, His love is why I am saved. I will not ignore broader picture revealed in the Bible, though.

While your mantra is "we have free will", its never in the Bible. Bible says "according to His will".

If you believe God is love and do not want Eny body perish, why you believe He only predestine some and left the rest burn in hell? Is that love?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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than you have a problem that God is love.

loving God predestine to put Adam and his offspring to heaven, but they disobeye God

then God predestine the wicked to hell.
Nope. Try again.

John 3:16. Wait!! That's your line. :p
 
S

StevieXKR

Guest
Our Lord does not choose us. He gives us the right to choose our own path and to choose him
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Bad analogy. Ppl aren't asleep but nekros, spiritually dead corpses. Can't wake up corpses. Corpse need brought to life. Only God can, as He quickens whoever(there's that pesky little word again Bro) He will.[John 5:21]
nope try again
 
Dec 28, 2016
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If you believe God is love and do not want Eny body perish, why you believe He only predestine some and left the rest burn in hell? Is that love?
Is it love for you to see your children standing in a burning building and not running in and dragging them out? You could have dragged them out, but you sent others to warn them to get out or get burned up. And when they refused to leave, they were burned up. But you loved them and left them to use their 'free will' and they burned up, but since you tried really hard, you left the onus on them and since they didn't do their part, you're hands are now clean.

Hey, at least you tried. They just didn't hold up to their end of the deal, right?