For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[phil36]

Some of the greatest missionaries where reformed. And it is interesting and contrary to a post above that Calvinism has been on the rise (a very big rise) in the last 2 or 3 decades., even though it is small in comparison with the charismatic movement.

I can see why its on the rise, reformed theology is the gospel after all!

 

[Innerfire89]

Well, God is choosing our circumstances... because He knows how we would behave in different ones... or...?

Sort of, but just what would circumstances change? Or why would the cirucustance change us beyond what God would have us to be?

 

[Innerfire89]

These teachings happen because people don't like God being God. They loathe Sovereignty, election, predestination &c. They're trying to get God off the hook, lol!

Yeah, monlisism is more than just a philosophy of God's knowledge.

 

[trofimus]

Sort of, but just what would circumstances change? Or why would the cirucustance change us beyond what God would have us to be?

I somehow fail to see what is bad on a view that God created such circumstances where we choose this or that way according to His will... its still predestination, its still election and I do not see anything unbiblical about it.

I am not saying that this is how I define my view, sort of, maybe..

 

[Bogadile]

contrary to a post above that Calvinism has been on the rise (a very big rise) in the last 2 or 3 decades., even though it is small in comparison with the charismatic movement.

Is this growth in Latin America? I can only speak for Asia, Africa and Europe.

 

[Innerfire89]

I somehow fail to see what is bad on a view that God created such circumstances where we choose this or that way according to His will... its still predestination, its still election and I do not see anything unbiblical about it.

I am not saying that this is how I define my view, sort of, maybe..

http://www.gotquesions.org/molinism.html

I'll just let someone else to explain it. Lol.

 

[trofimus]

Is this growth in Latin America? I can only speak for Asia, Africa and Europe.

This was your 666th post, so I will not trust you that you can speak for Asia, Africa and Europe

 

[notuptome]

Why would a Calvinist evangelize? If you are elect you will be saved and there is not a single thing you can do about it. Predestination and Gods sovereignty are immutable. What God has determined will happen and there is no power in the universe that can change it.

Of course the Calvinist could simply be misunderstanding the whole concept.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[trofimus]

I'll just let someone else to explain it. Lol.

Seems complicated.

"Where Calvinism, Arminianism, and Molinism disagree most is in interpreting doctrines such as total depravity and limited atonement, in light of these other ideas."

Yeah, this conclusion can give some light... I will think about it before sleep

 

[trofimus]

Why would a Calvinist evangelize? If you are elect you will be saved and there is not a single thing you can do about it. Predestination and Gods sovereignty are immutable. What God has determined will happen and there is no power in the universe that can change it.

Of course the Calvinist could simply be misunderstanding the whole concept.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

People do not understand predestination.

You probably think that if you are predestined to die in a sea, you will die in a sea even when you will be on a mountain.

No, predestination of a goal contains also predestination of causes, i.e. you will also travel to sea etc.

So for the ones predestined to be saved they are also predestined to hear and somebody else is predestined to preach to them etc. Thats why we preach gospel - to lead elect ones to salvation.

 

[Innerfire89]

Why would a Calvinist evangelize? If you are elect you will be saved and there is not a single thing you can do about it. Predestination and Gods sovereignty are immutable. What God has determined will happen and there is no power in the universe that can change it.

Of course the Calvinist could simply be misunderstanding the whole concept.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Can't help to tell the good news. And since salvation cant be lost it it makes even more sense.

 

[Bogadile]

This was your 666th post, so I will not trust you that you can speak for Asia, Africa and Europe

OH OH! its over now

 

[Depleted]

Some of the greatest missionaries where reformed. And it is interesting and contrary to a post above that Calvinism has been on the rise (a very big rise) in the last 2 or 3 decades., even though it is small in comparison with the charismatic movement.

I can see why its on the rise, reformed theology is the gospel after all!

Yeah. Kind of figured people will believe what they hear, so why argue it?

 

[pottersclay]

What would be the point? What's the use? The power of the gospel rent useless. That's why it doesn't fit. Does God know how many will be saved? Why yes he does he knows the end from the beginning. The scriptures teach we were predestined so I guess that settles it Calvinists thinking is scriptural and right.

So by grace we are saved is wrong because we were chosen before hand.

For God so loved the world is a over statement

Jesus died for a select few...( Forgot where that scripture is).

Let's take the hope right out of the sails of those we pray for and just tell them "hey maybe you drew a short straw".

I'm sorry I can go on and on and on but this poison is deadly. This way of thinking is dark.

Jesus came to his own, and his own received him not. Dont' you think that scripture reveals a lot about the father.? Why didn't he just end it there?

 

[Depleted]

Why would a Calvinist evangelize? If you are elect you will be saved and there is not a single thing you can do about it. Predestination and Gods sovereignty are immutable. What God has determined will happen and there is no power in the universe that can change it.

Of course the Calvinist could simply be misunderstanding the whole concept.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yeah, already know the charges. Also know the truth. Since you don't want to know the truth or hear the truth, but keep leveling the charges, there's another word for that.

 

[Bogadile]

Why would a Calvinist evangelize? If you are elect you will be saved and there is not a single thing you can do about it. Predestination and Gods sovereignty are immutable. What God has determined will happen and there is no power in the universe that can change it.

Of course the Calvinist could simply be misunderstanding the whole concept.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This pretty much sums it all up.

The standard response i have heard to this is: "God ordained that the means through which He will bring about the salvation of men is by the preaching of the Gospel"
However, this explanation is simply meaningless to me atleast, because of the fact that even IF people did not preach the Gospel, those people would be saved, due to the reasons you brought up.
Then again one could argue that the elect are somehow compelled to preach the Gospel to the required amount of people, that they are not able to not preach it.

I believe the early church fathers got this topic right. I will stick with that.

 

[trofimus]

However, this explanation is simply meaningless to me atleast, because of the fact that even IF people did not preach the Gospel, those people would be saved, due to the reasons you brought up.

No, this is illogical and unbiblical.

People will get saved because they will hear and positively respond to Gospel etc.

Predestination is not just one thing floating in the space without any connections, its whole the chain of events from the Big Bang (or lets say "Creation" to satisfy those who do not accept the BB ) till the end of Universe.

 

[preacher4truth]

Some of the greatest missionaries where reformed. And it is interesting and contrary to a post above that Calvinism has been on the rise (a very big rise) in the last 2 or 3 decades., even though it is small in comparison with the charismatic movement.

I can see why its on the rise, reformed theology is the gospel after all!

AMEN!!!!!!!

 

[Bogadile]

No, this is illogical and unbiblical.

People will get saved because they will hear and positively respond to Gospel etc.

Predestination is not just one thing floating in the space without any connections, its whole the chain of events from the Big Bang (or lets say "Creation" to satisfy those who do not accept the BB ) till the end of Universe.

What happened to:
No matter what humans do, the same amount of people are predestined for salvation?
So now we have humans able to prevent the Gospel from spreading? They simply stop. Or do you guys believe the elect just cannot stop preaching the Gospel? That they are forced by God.

I cannot see a way to make this work without it being negated. Also I just tricked myself into "debating" again, even though I said earlier I would not, D'OH! Im sorry i will stop now

 

[trofimus]

What happened to:
No matter what humans do, the same amount of people are predestined for salvation?

We do what is predestined. Predestination makes things certain, but not necessary.

So now we have humans able to prevent the Gospel from spreading?

No, how did you get to this conclusion?

They simply stop. Or do you guys believe the elect just cannot stop preaching the Gospel? That they are forced by God.

You could not even breath without God giving you the chain of causes so that you breathe. You could not even think without brain, chemistry etc given to you by causes you cannot influence.

So this question actually does not make any sense. Only in some kind of Universe where God is small or not controlling what He created.

Predestination makes things certain, but not necessary. If God will give you a desire to preach gospel, its not forcing but it is certain you will do it.

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Many anti-predestination arguments are just misunderstanding or bad logic.